Donate to Remove ads

Got a credit Card? use our Credit Card & Finance Calculators

Thanks to MyNameIsUrl,GSVsowhat,johnstevens77,BusyBumbleBee,88V8, for Donating to support the site

Tory Leadership candidates

High levels of moderation
Forum rules
no trolling, name calling, no arguments.
Material posted here that is disparaging towards any group on the basis of race, faith, nationality, gender, disability or sexual orientation will be deleted and any poster of such material risks suspension.
ursaminortaur
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3695
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:26 pm
Has thanked: 125 times
Been thanked: 110 times

Re: Tory Leadership candidates

#233524

Postby ursaminortaur » July 2nd, 2019, 8:26 pm

Hunt has admitted that a no deal brexit would be almost as bad as the 2008 financial crash. Instead of having to react to a global problem which started in the US though this would be a self inflicted crisis impacting a UK which still hasn't fully recovered from that financial crisis.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/hunt-no-deal-brexit-economic-crash-cost-billions-october-a8984921.html

A no-deal Brexit could inflict almost as much damage as the 2008 financial crash, Jeremy Hunt has admitted – before vowing to carry it out if necessary.

“The Bank of England's predictions are that it wouldn't be quite that bad, but it could be very serious if we get this wrong,” the foreign secretary said.

The admission is the starkest assessment yet of the impact of crashing out of the EU, which both Tory leadership candidates say they are ready to do on 31 October.

BobbyD
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4648
Joined: January 22nd, 2017, 2:29 pm
Has thanked: 67 times
Been thanked: 218 times

Re: Tory Leadership candidates

#233535

Postby BobbyD » July 2nd, 2019, 9:06 pm

ursaminortaur wrote:Hunt has admitted that a no deal brexit would be almost as bad as the 2008 financial crash. Instead of having to react to a global problem which started in the US though this would be a self inflicted crisis impacting a UK which still hasn't fully recovered from that financial crisis.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/hunt-no-deal-brexit-economic-crash-cost-billions-october-a8984921.html

A no-deal Brexit could inflict almost as much damage as the 2008 financial crash, Jeremy Hunt has admitted – before vowing to carry it out if necessary.

“The Bank of England's predictions are that it wouldn't be quite that bad, but it could be very serious if we get this wrong,” the foreign secretary said.

The admission is the starkest assessment yet of the impact of crashing out of the EU, which both Tory leadership candidates say they are ready to do on 31 October.


Project fear! Next thing you know he'll be saying it will require an emergency budget...

XFool
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4055
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 7:21 pm
Been thanked: 241 times

Re: Tory Leadership candidates

#233559

Postby XFool » July 2nd, 2019, 11:40 pm

Oh dear! Sounds as if the leadership campaign is stirring up apathy in Northern Ireland:

Would the last Tory left in Northern Ireland please turn out the lights?
John Crace

The Guardian

"Audiences in Belfast bored to tears as Boris Johnson and Jeremy Hunt pretend to care about them"

BobbyD
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4648
Joined: January 22nd, 2017, 2:29 pm
Has thanked: 67 times
Been thanked: 218 times

Re: Tory Leadership candidates

#233745

Postby BobbyD » July 3rd, 2019, 6:14 pm

Johnson asks Hunt for leadership backing in unsolicited email
Frontrunner’s campaign team faces fresh scrutiny over possible breach of data protection laws

...The development follows the Guardian’s disclosure on Tuesday that Johnson’s campaign had been reported to the information watchdog for both emailing and phoning Tories without having permission to use their data.

According to official guidelines, any candidate wishing to send emails or texts or make automated calls “must ensure that they have consent from the individuals to use such marketing channels”.

Above a copy of a “Back Boris” email seeking his support, Hunt tweeted: “Well this is awkward ... definitely didn’t sign up to this mailing list.”


- https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ited-email

Wizard
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2728
Joined: November 7th, 2016, 8:22 am
Been thanked: 440 times

Re: Tory Leadership candidates

#233761

Postby Wizard » July 3rd, 2019, 7:30 pm

There was very little response to my recent posts on how could MPs stop a no deal Brexit being pushed through by Johnson (or Hunt) on 31st October. Does that mean there is a general consensus that MPs that support a second referendum or a straight revocation of A50 have blown it and / or not been able to muster a majority for either option?

Given many on here have pointed out that there will be no EU team to have the must trailed renegotiation with, does that mean they see no deal now as highly likely? If not, why not.

While there are still posts being made about why no deal is bad (which I agree with given the current lack of preparation) none of those making those posts are saying how they see it being avoided. If it is going to happen it seems a pretty pointless exercise to keep point out it will be very bad, given that even if every person on here that wants a no deal Brexit (and indeed everyone in the country with the same view) is convinced it would make not a jot of difference.

I was really hoping some of the smart people on here would point out what I have missed and show how no deal is avoided under a Johnson Govt., but so far nothing.

ursaminortaur
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3695
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:26 pm
Has thanked: 125 times
Been thanked: 110 times

Re: Tory Leadership candidates

#233770

Postby ursaminortaur » July 3rd, 2019, 8:02 pm

Wizard wrote:There was very little response to my recent posts on how could MPs stop a no deal Brexit being pushed through by Johnson (or Hunt) on 31st October. Does that mean there is a general consensus that MPs that support a second referendum or a straight revocation of A50 have blown it and / or not been able to muster a majority for either option?

Given many on here have pointed out that there will be no EU team to have the must trailed renegotiation with, does that mean they see no deal now as highly likely? If not, why not.

While there are still posts being made about why no deal is bad (which I agree with given the current lack of preparation) none of those making those posts are saying how they see it being avoided. If it is going to happen it seems a pretty pointless exercise to keep point out it will be very bad, given that even if every person on here that wants a no deal Brexit (and indeed everyone in the country with the same view) is convinced it would make not a jot of difference.

I was really hoping some of the smart people on here would point out what I have missed and show how no deal is avoided under a Johnson Govt., but so far nothing.


I don't think those in parliament wanting to stop a nodeal brexit have given up and they will be looking at what paths are open to them.
As always the paths open to them will depend upon the intricacies of parliaments rules, the attitude of the speaker and the actions taken by the new PM. They may, as they have already done in the past, be able to attach an amendment to legislation or call for a vote of no confidence but there may well be other options.

Wizard
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2728
Joined: November 7th, 2016, 8:22 am
Been thanked: 440 times

Re: Tory Leadership candidates

#233806

Postby Wizard » July 3rd, 2019, 10:33 pm

ursaminortaur wrote:
Wizard wrote:There was very little response to my recent posts on how could MPs stop a no deal Brexit being pushed through by Johnson (or Hunt) on 31st October. Does that mean there is a general consensus that MPs that support a second referendum or a straight revocation of A50 have blown it and / or not been able to muster a majority for either option?

Given many on here have pointed out that there will be no EU team to have the must trailed renegotiation with, does that mean they see no deal now as highly likely? If not, why not.

While there are still posts being made about why no deal is bad (which I agree with given the current lack of preparation) none of those making those posts are saying how they see it being avoided. If it is going to happen it seems a pretty pointless exercise to keep point out it will be very bad, given that even if every person on here that wants a no deal Brexit (and indeed everyone in the country with the same view) is convinced it would make not a jot of difference.

I was really hoping some of the smart people on here would point out what I have missed and show how no deal is avoided under a Johnson Govt., but so far nothing.


I don't think those in parliament wanting to stop a nodeal brexit have given up and they will be looking at what paths are open to them.
As always the paths open to them will depend upon the intricacies of parliaments rules, the attitude of the speaker and the actions taken by the new PM. They may, as they have already done in the past, be able to attach an amendment to legislation or call for a vote of no confidence but there may well be other options.

But what other options? Letwin has said there is nothing but a no confidence vote and Benn said the same on Newsnight this week. They are long serving MPs who would know if there were other options.

ursaminortaur
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3695
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:26 pm
Has thanked: 125 times
Been thanked: 110 times

Re: Tory Leadership candidates

#233810

Postby ursaminortaur » July 3rd, 2019, 10:44 pm

Wizard wrote:
ursaminortaur wrote:
Wizard wrote:There was very little response to my recent posts on how could MPs stop a no deal Brexit being pushed through by Johnson (or Hunt) on 31st October. Does that mean there is a general consensus that MPs that support a second referendum or a straight revocation of A50 have blown it and / or not been able to muster a majority for either option?

Given many on here have pointed out that there will be no EU team to have the must trailed renegotiation with, does that mean they see no deal now as highly likely? If not, why not.

While there are still posts being made about why no deal is bad (which I agree with given the current lack of preparation) none of those making those posts are saying how they see it being avoided. If it is going to happen it seems a pretty pointless exercise to keep point out it will be very bad, given that even if every person on here that wants a no deal Brexit (and indeed everyone in the country with the same view) is convinced it would make not a jot of difference.

I was really hoping some of the smart people on here would point out what I have missed and show how no deal is avoided under a Johnson Govt., but so far nothing.


I don't think those in parliament wanting to stop a nodeal brexit have given up and they will be looking at what paths are open to them.
As always the paths open to them will depend upon the intricacies of parliaments rules, the attitude of the speaker and the actions taken by the new PM. They may, as they have already done in the past, be able to attach an amendment to legislation or call for a vote of no confidence but there may well be other options.

But what other options? Letwin has said there is nothing but a no confidence vote and Benn said the same on Newsnight this week. They are long serving MPs who would know if there were other options.


I'm not familiar with the intricacies of parliaments rules so can't predict what other options there might be. However it seems likely that legislation will be needed for a no deal brexit (or if the new PM wants to try to get a modified deal through) which will provide opportunities for amendments anyway.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/03/brexit-keir-starmer-boris-johnson-mps-stand-in-his-way-stop-no-deal

But separate analysis by Labour suggests a string of emergency bills on issues from medicines regulation to new rules and systems for the border in Northern Ireland would still need to be passed, even in a no-deal scenario.
Any of them could potentially be seized on – and amended – by MPs looking for a mechanism to block a no-deal Brexit, or perhaps even revoke article 50.

XFool
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4055
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 7:21 pm
Been thanked: 241 times

Re: Tory Leadership candidates

#233823

Postby XFool » July 3rd, 2019, 11:39 pm

Minister predicts his own sacking in speech attacking populists

Justice secretary David Gauke’s remarks will be seen as veiled attack on Boris Johnson

The Guardian

Wizard
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2728
Joined: November 7th, 2016, 8:22 am
Been thanked: 440 times

Re: Tory Leadership candidates

#233891

Postby Wizard » July 4th, 2019, 11:32 am

ursaminortaur wrote:
Wizard wrote:
ursaminortaur wrote:
I don't think those in parliament wanting to stop a nodeal brexit have given up and they will be looking at what paths are open to them.
As always the paths open to them will depend upon the intricacies of parliaments rules, the attitude of the speaker and the actions taken by the new PM. They may, as they have already done in the past, be able to attach an amendment to legislation or call for a vote of no confidence but there may well be other options.

But what other options? Letwin has said there is nothing but a no confidence vote and Benn said the same on Newsnight this week. They are long serving MPs who would know if there were other options.


I'm not familiar with the intricacies of parliaments rules so can't predict what other options there might be. However it seems likely that legislation will be needed for a no deal brexit (or if the new PM wants to try to get a modified deal through) which will provide opportunities for amendments anyway.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/03/brexit-keir-starmer-boris-johnson-mps-stand-in-his-way-stop-no-deal

But separate analysis by Labour suggests a string of emergency bills on issues from medicines regulation to new rules and systems for the border in Northern Ireland would still need to be passed, even in a no-deal scenario.
Any of them could potentially be seized on – and amended – by MPs looking for a mechanism to block a no-deal Brexit, or perhaps even revoke article 50.

Interesting article, thanks for sharing. That could mean it came down to what the Speaker selects as amendments, no pressure then!

The one thing the article does not give anything on is timing. The EU summit is on 17th - 18th October. If the legislation mentioned only goes to Parliament after that date there would need to be an emergency summit to agree any extension. Alternatively MPs would have to table an amendment to revoke A50 rather than to force the PM to request an extension. That would be a much tougher decision for many than agreejng an extension to allow for a referendum.

ursaminortaur
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3695
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:26 pm
Has thanked: 125 times
Been thanked: 110 times

Re: Tory Leadership candidates

#234384

Postby ursaminortaur » July 6th, 2019, 11:14 am

It seems the Tories can't even organise their own leadership election and have sent multiple voting ballots to members.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/06/tory-members-multiple-ballots-for-picking-leader

Some Conservative members have reportedly been sent more than one ballot paper for the leadership election.

More than 1,000 people could have multiple forms in the contest between Boris Johnson and Jeremy Hunt, according to a BBC report citing a party source.
.
.
.
Smith echoed McLoughlin’s call for Tory members to not vote more than once. “It’s quite clear as Patrick McLoughlin said that you are not to vote more than once.

“But it’s clear that the Conservative party needs to continue to do some work and look into how they can actually sift this properly so that they recognise who is who.”

The Electoral Commission, which sets standards for how UK elections are run, has no role in the leadership contest.

XFool
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4055
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 7:21 pm
Been thanked: 241 times

Re: Tory Leadership candidates

#235383

Postby XFool » July 9th, 2019, 11:19 pm

Boris Johnson shows he'll be most ill-qualified PM of modern times
Martin Kettle

The Guardian

Smirks, smugness and self-love will not deter predominantly rightwing, old, white and male Tory voters

SteMiS
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1778
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 9:41 pm
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 118 times

Re: Tory Leadership candidates

#235448

Postby SteMiS » July 10th, 2019, 8:42 am

I actually watched the ITV debate between Johnson and Hunt last night. Although there is an element of 'same-iness' about the two in respect of Brexit, and Hunt's repetitiveness about being an entrepreneur and having spent a lifetime (!!) negotiating became a bit forced at times, Hunt was by far the most willing to answer a straight question.

Hunt: would you continue with HS2? Yes. Would you continue with Heathrow's 3rd runway? Yes. Will Kim Darroch remain as US ambassador until his retirement in January 2020? Yes. Would you continue with Universal Credit? Yes.

Johnson: well, er, we need to look at this things and er, consider the er, situation er...

Johnson really is an evasive show pony, who spent a lot of time trying to disrupt the debate by talking over Hunt, avoiding the question and grandstanding.

Hunt came across as much more likeable and willing to take tough decisions (let's face it, HS2 and Heathrow 3rd runway aren't hugely popular with a largely retired, home county membership who value the view from their conservatory far more than the economic prospects of those in the rest of the country). As a Northerner I think we'd get a far more sympathetic hearing from Hunt than the London centric interests that Johnson represents.

Under normal circumstances I'd have no hesitation voting for Hunt, but in truth his approach to Brexit is no more grounded in reality than Johnson's. The advantage of Johnson is that he is such a polarising individual that the prospect of a successful confidence vote that would bring down the government is higher with him in charge.

Decisions, decisions....

richfool
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1462
Joined: November 19th, 2016, 2:02 pm
Has thanked: 249 times
Been thanked: 246 times

Re: Tory Leadership candidates

#235454

Postby richfool » July 10th, 2019, 9:04 am

I saw many instances of Hunt deliberately trying to challenge, bait and antagonise Boris. (Though) I wasn't sure whether it was meant to be a debate between the two of them, or the two of them answering studio audience questions. If the latter then I thought Boris was right to avoid, or not allow himself to be interrogated by Hunt.

I was conscious that if they are both Conservatives, then it would be counter-productive to attack each other's policies and plans, as in effect they are attacking their own party's policies.

For similar reasons, (and particularly so as a Leaver) I get frustrated when I see Ministers being challenged on exactly how/what they will negotiate with the EU or achieve Brexit, with or without a deal, as I am very aware that the EC sit and watch what goes on in our parliament and all these TV debates and then sit and plan their strategy accordingly to combat ours. For example our parliament trying to take no deal off the table removes any realistic chance we have of putting pressure on the EU at the negotiating table, - oh and plays into the hands of the subversive elements within our parliament. A ridiculous thing to do. Thus I would not want Boris or Hunt to go into much public detail on that.

ursaminortaur
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3695
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:26 pm
Has thanked: 125 times
Been thanked: 110 times

Re: Tory Leadership candidates

#235713

Postby ursaminortaur » July 10th, 2019, 10:08 pm

Boris has pulled out of another debate

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1151468/tory-leadership-news-debate-boris-johnson-jeremy-hunt-brexit-news-eu-major

The planned BBC Question Time Tory leadership debate between Boris Johnson and Jeremy Hunt next Tuesday is “almost certainly off’ because of concerns from the former about the “make-up of the audience”, it has been claimed. The Sun's Deputy Political Editor Steve Hawkes tweeted: “BBC admitting the Question Time leadership special planned for next Tuesday is almost certainly off now - because of one candidate's concerns about the make-up of the audience. Mr Hunt was quick to reply, and tweeted: “Can confirm I am not said candidate.”

XFool
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4055
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 7:21 pm
Been thanked: 241 times

Re: Tory Leadership candidates

#235737

Postby XFool » July 11th, 2019, 12:03 am

ursaminortaur wrote:Boris has pulled out of another debate

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1151468/tory-leadership-news-debate-boris-johnson-jeremy-hunt-brexit-news-eu-major

The planned BBC Question Time Tory leadership debate between Boris Johnson and Jeremy Hunt next Tuesday is “almost certainly off’ because of concerns from the former about the “make-up of the audience”, it has been claimed. The Sun's Deputy Political Editor Steve Hawkes tweeted: “BBC admitting the Question Time leadership special planned for next Tuesday is almost certainly off now - because of one candidate's concerns about the make-up of the audience. Mr Hunt was quick to reply, and tweeted: “Can confirm I am not said candidate.”

Boris on the run again? Doesn't sound very Churchillian to me.

tjh290633
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3518
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 11:20 am
Has thanked: 233 times
Been thanked: 1158 times

Re: Tory Leadership candidates

#235832

Postby tjh290633 » July 11th, 2019, 11:01 am

I don't blame him. The ITV shambles should never have been held. I would rule them out in perpetuity.

TJH

SteMiS
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1778
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 9:41 pm
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 118 times

Re: Tory Leadership candidates

#235840

Postby SteMiS » July 11th, 2019, 11:17 am

tjh290633 wrote:I don't blame him. The ITV shambles should never have been held. I would rule them out in perpetuity.

TJH

Actually I thought the ITV debate was very useful and I've changed my mind as a result. I was going to vote Johnson, as the man most likely to polarise opinion and cause a fall in the government (which is the best chance we've got of a referendum). However on hearing the evasive, duplicitous and unpleasant performance of Johnson, I can't have it on my conscience that I helped, in any small way, for that man to become Prime Minister (even though my vote wont decide it either way). I though Hunt was direct, answered the question and infinitely more statesmanlike, although admittedly his Brexit policies were almost as implausible as Johnson's. So I've now decided to vote Hunt. Not who I want but a damn site better than the alternative.


Return to “Polite Discussions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: anticrank and 4 guests