SteMiS wrote:Wizard wrote:I also agree it is not the EU's fault that the person leading the negotiations for the UK was a fool unwilling to take on the views of others and unable to understand the positions others would take on her deal. As I have said in other posts my contempt for Theresa May is beyond description using language acceptable here. I also wonder if some on the remain side of the debate may see the back stop as a somewhat sneaky way of almost staying in the EU*.
I'm no fan of May and I think deficiencies in her personality haven't help the process at all, but she had a major problem. Parliament is essentially made up of three groups;
- Purist leavers (we need to be complete free to do our own thing whatever the cost)
- Pragmatic leavers (we need to avoid economic damage even if it means ending up a rule taker)
- Remainers (no deal is better than being a member)
May was the 2nd of the three and the other two groups ganged up on her. Remainers attempts to get a 'confirmatory referendum' have foundered because the other two groups have ganged up on them. Johnson may well fail because the other two gang up on him. As it stands, it's hard to see how anyone can get a majority to get anything through the HoC.
I think you either need to re-label "Pragmatic leavers" as:
Pragmatic leavers and remainers (we need to accept the decision to leave and find a way to do so that avoids economic damage even if that means ending up a rule taker).
Or create a separate group of Pragmatic remainers.
SteMiS wrote:Wizard wrote:I also agree the rational approach is that the next PM establishes what can get through Parliament and for that to form the basis for any further negotiation with the EU. The problem is that such a sensible process can't realistically happen if the EU just sits there with its arms folded saying it won't talk any more.
It didn't actually. It said, go away and talk to the Labour party and come back when you have an agreement between you that you can get through parliament. That hasn't happened. They are (not unreasonably) not going to play salami slicing.
I am afraid that is simply not correct. I could provide many quotes on this, but one will do to demonstrate the EU has been very clear, they will not reopen the WA.
France’s state secretary for European affairs has confirmed that the EU27 are not prepared to reopen the Brexit withdrawal agreement, and that without a “new political line” in the UK or a second referendum, Britain must expect to leave the bloc on 31 October.
“We are now waiting for clarification from the UK side,” De Montchalin said.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... h-minister