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Dire Dates

Mind that apostrophe.
GoSeigen
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Dire Dates

#198720

Postby GoSeigen » February 4th, 2019, 9:47 am

Heard on R4 this morning: "Between the year two thousand and the year two thousand and four ..."


It's a mystery to me: why do people still do this, almost twenty years into the new century? Surely "twenty nineteen" will do?

Romeo and Juliet was published in 1597:

-"The year one thousand five hundred and ninety seven": 13 syllables.
-"fifteen ninety seven": 6 syllables.

???

Here ends my pleonastic investigation.

GS

swill453
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Re: Dire Dates

#198731

Postby swill453 » February 4th, 2019, 10:04 am

GoSeigen wrote:Heard on R4 this morning: "Between the year two thousand and the year two thousand and four ..."


It's a mystery to me: why do people still do this, almost twenty years into the new century? Surely "twenty nineteen" will do?

So what would you suggest for the two examples you quoted? Twenty zero or twenty oh oh? Unlikely. Twenty oh four maybe a little more likely, but still doesn't roll off the tongue any better than two thousand and four.

Scott.

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Re: Dire Dates

#198736

Postby chas49 » February 4th, 2019, 10:12 am

GoSeigen wrote: twenty years into the new century? Surely "twenty nineteen" will do?


And when will it stop being the new century? Strictly it's this century and the 1900s were last century. But for many of us, "last century" sounds like the 1800s.

GoSeigen
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Re: Dire Dates

#198744

Postby GoSeigen » February 4th, 2019, 10:24 am

swill453 wrote:
GoSeigen wrote:Heard on R4 this morning: "Between the year two thousand and the year two thousand and four ..."


It's a mystery to me: why do people still do this, almost twenty years into the new century? Surely "twenty nineteen" will do?

So what would you suggest for the two examples you quoted? Twenty zero or twenty oh oh? Unlikely. Twenty oh four maybe a little more likely, but still doesn't roll off the tongue any better than two thousand and four.

Scott.


-Two thousand -- not "the year two thousand".
-Twenty oh four -- as in ten sixty six, or nineteen oh four, or twenty one oh four (not two thousand one hundred and four, surely??)

GS

swill453
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Re: Dire Dates

#198745

Postby swill453 » February 4th, 2019, 10:31 am

GoSeigen wrote:-Two thousand -- not "the year two thousand".
-Twenty oh four -- as in ten sixty six, or nineteen oh four, or twenty one oh four (not two thousand one hundred and four, surely??)

The juxtaposition of the two years in the sentence makes using a common method sound better to my ears. The first decade of a century is always a special case - 1900 is nineteen hundred but 2000 is never twenty hundred. (your final example is therefore a straw man case)

Scott.

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Re: Dire Dates

#198752

Postby UncleEbenezer » February 4th, 2019, 11:01 am

swill453 wrote:
GoSeigen wrote:-Two thousand -- not "the year two thousand".
-Twenty oh four -- as in ten sixty six, or nineteen oh four, or twenty one oh four (not two thousand one hundred and four, surely??)

The juxtaposition of the two years in the sentence makes using a common method sound better to my ears. The first decade of a century is always a special case - 1900 is nineteen hundred but 2000 is never twenty hundred. (your final example is therefore a straw man case)

Scott.

Anno Domini MM to MMIV?

Perhaps the OP has a point in finding the original example ugly, but hasn't quite found it. The ugliness stems from the overloading of the word "and" in such a short space as between two dates and within a date, particularly alongside the repeated "thousand" (itself also a blemish). "...thousand and two thousand and four ..." could be made less inelegant using the alternative formulation 20-0-4.

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Re: Dire Dates

#198753

Postby jfgw » February 4th, 2019, 11:04 am

swill453 wrote:So what would you suggest for the two examples you quoted? Twenty zero or twenty oh oh? Unlikely. Twenty oh four maybe a little more likely, but still doesn't roll off the tongue any better than two thousand and four.


Certainly not anything with "oh" in it. "O" is a letter. It looks a lot like "0" but it has no place in a decimal number. (You might need it if you are counting in base 25.) This is 2019, not 2O19 any more than it is 20I9.

Julian F. G. W.

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Re: Dire Dates

#198754

Postby bungeejumper » February 4th, 2019, 11:08 am

I fear it's a sign of our collective advancing decrepitude that we oldies insist in saying two thousand and nineteen, when any schoolchild and most millennials will go for twenty nineteen. (Or twenty oh four, where appropriate.)

The problem, I suspect, is that the millennium was a big deal for us - the wife and I held a new year's eve party and took champagne out to the church bellringers at midnight - but to the young'uns it's just another date in the history books. ("Two thousand" seems to do it, BTW.)

I fear that the writing is on the wall for those of us who still insist on talking about feet and inches, or who still know (or care) how many boring old ounces used to be in a pound, or who whinge about how summers used to be warmer in the days of fahrenheit, yadda yadda. We can either adapt, or we can subside into a cosy mutual grumble about how much better it used to be.

And about how the twin towers attack wasn't nine eleven, it was eleven nine. Nurse, is it time for my medication? :evil:

BJ

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Re: Dire Dates

#198771

Postby scotia » February 4th, 2019, 11:50 am

bungeejumper wrote:the millennium was a big deal for us

and a bonanza for software writers!

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Re: Dire Dates

#198775

Postby jfgw » February 4th, 2019, 11:55 am

bungeejumper wrote:the millennium was a big deal for us


All thousand years of it?

Julian F. G. W.

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Re: Dire Dates

#198778

Postby GoSeigen » February 4th, 2019, 12:01 pm

jfgw wrote:
swill453 wrote:So what would you suggest for the two examples you quoted? Twenty zero or twenty oh oh? Unlikely. Twenty oh four maybe a little more likely, but still doesn't roll off the tongue any better than two thousand and four.


Certainly not anything with "oh" in it. "O" is a letter. It looks a lot like "0" but it has no place in a decimal number. (You might need it if you are counting in base 25.) This is 2019, not 2O19 any more than it is 20I9.

Julian F. G. W.


First result on Google, there are probably more:


Dictionary result for O
/əʊ/
noun

1. the fifteenth letter of the alphabet. [...]
2. nought or zero (in a sequence of numerals, especially when spoken).
"two seven o seven point six"

3. a shape like that of a capital O; a circle.
"he made an O with his mouth"



GS

jfgw
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Re: Dire Dates

#198914

Postby jfgw » February 4th, 2019, 7:26 pm

GoSeigen wrote:First result on Google, there are probably more:


Dictionary result for O
/əʊ/
noun

1. the fifteenth letter of the alphabet. [...]
2. nought or zero (in a sequence of numerals, especially when spoken).
"two seven o seven point six"
3. a shape like that of a capital O; a circle.
"he made an O with his mouth"


A dictionary lists ways in which words are used rather than good form. Once a misuse of a word enters a dictionary, it is, regrettably, accepted as correct. Thus, it is correct (but very bad form) to "loan" someone some money or to send out "invites" to a party. If a teenager says that she "literally died when her mum came home and found her with Tony", it doesn't mean she is dead and that it must be her ghost talking. "Literally" doesn't necessarily literally mean literally any more. Can you get a AA battery? Yes, even though it contains only one cell.

Oh, and don't get me on this one,

plug
...
2. countable noun
A plug is an electric socket.
[informal]

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dicti ... glish/plug

Julian F. G. W.

GoSeigen
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Re: Dire Dates

#198989

Postby GoSeigen » February 5th, 2019, 8:57 am

jfgw wrote:A dictionary lists ways in which words are used rather than good form. Once a misuse of a word enters a dictionary, it is, regrettably, accepted as correct. Thus, it is correct (but very bad form) to "loan" someone some money or to send out "invites" to a party.


Okay, I see where you're coming from. Hard Pedants of Judea vs. Soft Pedants of Judea...


GS


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