Changing formulations

[UncleEbenezer]

What do you do when a product you've used happily for years changes behind your back, and becomes unfit for purpose?

That's just happened to me with a Sainsburys' own brand detergent, which I've been using happily since May 2013[1]. I opened a new bottle of it this morning, and found that they've changed the formulation, and now it stinks the place out.

Seems I'm not the only one with this problem. Sainsburys' own page at https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/shop/gb/gr ... -washes%29 shows several reviewers from Jan/Feb this year complaining specifically about the change. One reviewer in particular (mrsjh) - shown as a "top 25 contributor" at Sainsburys' site - gives it a one-star "never again" review on Feb 9th, after giving it (the old formulation) a positive four-star review just nine months earlier.

If this were a different brand I were trying for the first time, I'd just take it on the chin and never buy it again: I can bring the stink down by setting the washing machine to run three extra rinses[2]. But when it's masquerading as the same product I know and trust, I call that serious misrepresentation. I've just today had words with Customer Services. A bit of online research at Which? tells me my next port of call should be Trading Standards, but I thought I'd pause here to vent en route.

[1] That's when I moved here and Sainsburys became my local supermarket.
[2] The last time I tried a different liquid - the bio version of the same Sainsburys own brand stuff - I did exactly that. That's the only time I've tried a different detergent since May 2013, not least because the experience of that smell put me off experimenting with detergents I haven't tried.

[bungeejumper]

It won't be just the formulation that they've changed, it'll be the supplier. Happens quite a lot with own-brand products, and usually you don't notice.

I did notice a few months ago when Sainsburys' sunflower spread (which is supposedly low in saturated fats) came out of the tub all greasy. When I checked the contents listing against the one on the old tub, I found that they'd loaded it up with lovely health-giving palm oil , and that both its calorific count and its salt ratio had changed. Now, I have to watch my sat fats for health reasons beyond my control, and I was not best pleased with the deception. (In their defence, they had changed the packaging somewhat, which was better than passing off the new one for the old, I suppose?)

Occasionally, the manufacturers make changes for statutory reasons. Mr Muscle kitchen cleaner has been rubbish since they got rid of all the carcinogenic solvents that used to do such a good job. The spoilsports. And I had to go down to the local pound shop for a sizeable stock of proper clear glue that still has all the restricted solvents in it. (Its packaging was all in Turkish, which was a dead giveaway. Sticks like you know what. What am I offered?)

BJ

[Slarti]

When Pears Soap did that, we old fogies who like it because of its lack of stink or tendency to irritate our skin
a) complained like hell and
b) stopped buying it

The fall in sales was so bad that they reinstated the old formula.

You never know, it might just work with Sainsburys

Slarti

[swill453]

If this were a different brand I were trying for the first time, I'd just take it on the chin and never buy it again: I can bring the stink down by setting the washing machine to run three extra rinses[2]. But when it's masquerading as the same product I know and trust, I call that serious misrepresentation. I've just today had words with Customer Services. A bit of online research at Which? tells me my next port of call should be Trading Standards, but I thought I'd pause here to vent en route.

What remedy are you looking for? I'm sure customer services would give you a refund just for asking, without needing to involve Trading Standards.

If you want more, like getting them to reformulate it, I wouldn't waste your time.

Scott.

[UncleEbenezer]

What remedy are you looking for? I'm sure customer services would give you a refund just for asking, without needing to involve Trading Standards.

If you want more, like getting them to reformulate it, I wouldn't waste your time.

Scott.

I asked for a refund today. All they would offer was the amount on a "gift card". One more thing to fatten the wallet (which is a medical problem - see viewtopic.php?p=118097#p118097 for some related comments: the fat wallet is one more thing I have to avoid carefully), and one more thing to lose.

The Which? website addresses "what if a shop offers vouchers for a refund?", and tells us that's NOT sufficient under the law. It's hard to see that a gift card would be legally any different to a voucher. Yes of course I'd have occasions to spend it (so long as I live here, Sainsburys should remain where I buy the majority of my food and almost all my household goods), but I really don't need the hassle.

Thank goodness for the new Lidl, only about an extra mile or so further than Sainsburys. I've already resorted to it for my December shopping (when Sainsburys inflict muzak on us) and a minority of everyday shopping. Guess I'll have to use it more.

[gryffron]

The Which? website addresses "what if a shop offers vouchers for a refund?", and tells us that's NOT sufficient under the law. It's hard to see that a gift card would be legally any different to a voucher.

That's not really true. They're only obliged to offer a refund if the goods are "defective" or "not fit for purpose". I'm pretty sure "It's different" or "I don't like the smell" would not be sufficient to trigger rejection under Consumer Rights Act. Therefore, anything the supermarket are offering is superior to your legal rights.

You do, of course, have the right to buy something different.

Gryff

[supremetwo]

If you want more, like getting them to reformulate it, I wouldn't waste your time. Scott.

All these chemicals that are being pushed onto households may be contributing to the rise in asthma and other respiratory problems.

https://www.blf.org.uk/support-for-you/ ... ngs/causes

[UncleEbenezer]

The Which? website addresses "what if a shop offers vouchers for a refund?", and tells us that's NOT sufficient under the law. It's hard to see that a gift card would be legally any different to a voucher.

That's not really true. They're only obliged to offer a refund if the goods are "defective" or "not fit for purpose". I'm pretty sure "It's different" or "I don't like the smell" would not be sufficient to trigger rejection under Consumer Rights Act. Therefore, anything the supermarket are offering is superior to your legal rights.
Gryff

Yep. I've endeavoured to explain both why the muck is unfit for purpose, and the evidence that other consumers have the same problem with it. To expand on that, you could follow the link in my first post and read those reviews.

[bungeejumper]

I asked for a refund today. All they would offer was the amount on a "gift card". One more thing to fatten the wallet (which is a medical problem - see viewtopic.php?p=118097#p118097 for some related comments: the fat wallet is one more thing I have to avoid carefully), and one more thing to lose.

It seems very bizarre that they're holding out against a cash refund. If you're anything like me, your annual supermarket spend is well over £5K, and why would they want to risk losing that by pissing you off?

I could understand them reverting to sale of goods/contract law if it were a high-value item like a TV (although even then, I got furious when Comet did it to me over a computer). But for this sort of money I just can't see the business sense of them not giving you a quick no-fuss refund.

I did once make an online complaint to Sainsburys head office. The store manager was back to me within 45 minutes, grovelling. Worth a try?

BJ

[sg31]

If you think you should have a refund post on Twitter about it #Sainsburys. The major companies all monitor twitter to nip in the bud all bad publicity.

I had a problem with Talk Talk that went on for months, they said it was impossible to sort it out. Eventually I got so fed up I posted on Twitter just to vent. Within 15 minutes they contacted me to see what the problem was. It was sorted the next day. It also worked with another company that was intransigent, again the problem was rectified within a short time.