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I didn't like the result. Let's do it again

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Grumpi
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I didn't like the result. Let's do it again

#167493

Postby Grumpi » September 19th, 2018, 4:15 pm

The outcry to have a second Brexit referendum seems to be increasing.

Assuming we do run a second referendum and the Remainers win this time that would make it a one all draw and surely that would entitle the Leavers to insist on a third referendum to determine the Best-of-Three.

On the other hand if a second referendum resulted in the Leavers winning a majority for the second time could the Remainers then call for three more referenda to settle the Best-of-Five?

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Re: I didn't like the result. Let's do it again

#167495

Postby Lootman » September 19th, 2018, 4:19 pm

The only fair way to do a second vote would be to not have "Remain" as an option at all, and make it a straight choice between leaving with whatever deal gets thrashed out OR leave with no deal.

To give Remain a second shot when Leave would not have been given a second shot would be a gross betrayal of the will of the people. And would confirm in the minds of many that the establishment (with their "experts") are out of touch with ordinary people.

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Re: I didn't like the result. Let's do it again

#167499

Postby UncleEbenezer » September 19th, 2018, 4:30 pm

The outcry to have a second Brexit referendum seems to be increasing.

ITYM a third.

The only fair way to do a second vote would be to not have "Remain" as an option at all,

The only fair way to conduct the next election is to disqualify the Tories altogether. They didn't win, so we should next get a choice from among the winner, namely all-other-options.

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Re: I didn't like the result. Let's do it again

#167500

Postby richfool » September 19th, 2018, 4:30 pm

Having had the referendum and the people having voted and made their decision, I think its outrageous that the likes of Blair, Clegg and others, should be trying to circumvent the democratically arrived at decision. There most certainly should not be any further referendum and politicians should get on with implementing the will of the people, and stop trying to outmanoevre them.

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Re: I didn't like the result. Let's do it again

#167501

Postby Lootman » September 19th, 2018, 4:35 pm

UncleEbenezer wrote:
The only fair way to do a second vote would be to not have "Remain" as an option at all,

The only fair way to conduct the next election is to disqualify the Tories altogether. They didn't win, so we should next get a choice from among the winner, namely all-other-options.

That is a bogus analogy, as you well know.

Any second vote (and I don't believe one is necessary in any event) should be about HOW to leave, and not WHETHER to leave. The latter has already been decided.

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Re: I didn't like the result. Let's do it again

#167506

Postby kiloran » September 19th, 2018, 4:49 pm

I think another in/out referendum could be disastrous, but for different reasons....

The vote was very close. 52:48. And it would seem from various polls that there has been no big change since then. 50:50 plus or minus a few percent either way. If another referendum were to be held and voted to stay, it would only be by a small margin, so leavers would be up in arms and we would be in even more turmoil, even though that referendum represented "the will of the people" at that moment in time.

If the result was 70:30, or even 60:40, I think a referendum could truly be said to represent the will of the people, but with the current 50:50, it is inevitable that half the country is unhappy and the expression "the will of the people" becomes meaningless.

--kiloran

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Re: I didn't like the result. Let's do it again

#167513

Postby UncleEbenezer » September 19th, 2018, 5:15 pm

Lootman wrote:
UncleEbenezer wrote:
The only fair way to do a second vote would be to not have "Remain" as an option at all,

The only fair way to conduct the next election is to disqualify the Tories altogether. They didn't win, so we should next get a choice from among the winner, namely all-other-options.

That is a bogus analogy, as you well know.

Utter tosh. It's an entirely valid analogy.

One vote between a status quo and a blank canvas. Another choice between a status quo and a bunch of other unappetising options.

Ok, I guess that'll be why the blank canvas looked attractive to so many: they could each project their own views. Trouble is, those views are utterly incompatible. To take but one issue, immigration, they range from the BUKNIP keep-the-foreigners-out to Tim Martin's let's-have-more-immigration. No wonder the Agenda is now so largely governed by who can shout loudest.

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Re: I didn't like the result. Let's do it again

#167514

Postby Itsallaguess » September 19th, 2018, 5:25 pm

Moderator Message:
Guys, can we please try to keep things polite here? Clearly this is an emotive subject, but claiming someone's views are 'Utter tosh' is unlikely to lead to a harmonious discussion........It'sallaguess

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Re: I didn't like the result. Let's do it again

#167517

Postby Lootman » September 19th, 2018, 5:30 pm

UncleEbenezer wrote:One vote between a status quo and a blank canvas. Another choice between a status quo and a bunch of other unappetising options.

It's the same thing. Leave versus Remain is a simple binary choice that everyone could understand. The exact nature of how we leave was something we all understood as details to be worked out later, not agonised over and revisited again and again.

And wanting to keep having votes until you get the result you want, as the title of this topic suggests, is plain disingenuous and disrespectful to the voters. But then it has long been a criticism of Remainers that they are over-educated elite metropolitan types who look down on most of the electorate.

We voted. Your side lost.

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Re: I didn't like the result. Let's do it again

#167525

Postby Sussexlad » September 19th, 2018, 6:25 pm

Lootman wrote:And wanting to keep having votes until you get the result you want, as the title of this topic suggests, is plain disingenuous and disrespectful to the voters. But then it has long been a criticism of Remainers that they are over-educated elite metropolitan types who look down on most of the electorate. We voted. Your side lost.


Indeed. Remainiacs obviously think that only captains of industry should have a democratic voice. They never talk about democracy, simply accept that trade is weaponised against those who wish to leave.

If there is another vote it should be USE - where it's heading - or Independence. Funny how most supported countries fighting and even dying to achieve their independence but hate the idea of the UK re-establishing ours.

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Re: I didn't like the result. Let's do it again

#167541

Postby Clitheroekid » September 19th, 2018, 7:44 pm

Another reason for not having another referendum is that it would be an open invitation to those charged with negotiating Brexit to ensure that we got a completely unacceptable deal.

Most of the politicians and civil servants in charge of negotiating Brexit are remainers, and if they thought that their efforts would be the subject of a second referendum they'd make damn sure that the final result was completely unsupportable, even by diehard Brexiteers.

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Re: I didn't like the result. Let's do it again

#167571

Postby redsturgeon » September 19th, 2018, 10:14 pm

Moderator Message:
We have dozens of threads just like this one over on Polite Discussions. Feel free to comment further over there. I'm locking this one.


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