The hate that passeth all understanding...

[servodude]

Aldi and Lidl, on the other hand, I've used once or twice and have always come out swearing not to go back. Both are truly dreadful places to be in which do nothing to make shopping a pleasant experience.

It depends.
Don't use Lidl, but our localish Aldi is our weekly alternate with Waitrose.
A different world. the store, the customers (us excluded).
They don't have 64 varieties of olives, but they have a lot of British meat & veg, and of course the centre aisle which is a magical mystery tour, a jumble sale, a rummage,

The checkout is super quick. You plonk your goods back in the trolley as they come through the checkout lady, then go to the side and pack them into your bags. None of the genteel dawdling that characterises Waitrose.
It's a race.
The survival of the fittest. Don't like it? Don't go then.
Sainsbury... just another supermarket, of no particular merit.

V8

ALDI self service checkouts make you feel like a magician as you take advantage of the fact there's a barcode on every side of a product

[kempiejon]

Do we all know what Stephen Fry said about Sainsbury's?
https://youtu.be/fBpVFwEoXh0?t=3

[bungeejumper]

But a new trend in the US is removing self-scan paydesks as the shoplifting that happens as a result is through the roof. It always struck me as trivially easy to do that here as well and I can only assume that the resultant loss due to "shrinkage" is less than what is saved by not paying human cashiers.

Not just in the US. My nearest Sainsburys is in a fairly run-down country town where hundreds of industrial jobs have recently been lost (mostly to Poland, and directly because of Brexit - but hey, that's another story, let it go, let it go...).

Anyway, the self-checkout area in Sainsburys is now a closed cattle pen with shiny chrome gates that won't even let you leave the store until you've scanned your till receipt, so as to prove you're not a thief. To say I'm insulted is something of an understatement. I guess the store management just have to do what they have to do? But that's one more reason for me to choose another place to shop.

And yes, the staff in the self-checkout area are surly, and suspicious, and generally absent or unhelpful. Although I can't actually blame them, because if I were having to challenge every thirtieth customer about a suspected theft, and maybe getting sworn at or even punched, I'd be finding ways to express my own unhappiness about my choice of career.

Meanwhile my Tesco home deliveries keep on arriving, reliably and without any effort on my part, and I top up once a fortnight at Waitrose, where the self-checkouts don't have exit bars, or queues either.

BJ

[Arborbridge]

Anyway, the self-checkout area in Sainsburys is now a closed cattle pen with shiny chrome gates that won't even let you leave the store until you've scanned your till receipt, so as to prove you're not a thief. To say I'm insulted is something of an understatement. I guess the store management just have to do what they have to do? But that's one more reason for me to choose another place to shop.


Meanwhile my Tesco home deliveries keep on arriving, reliably and without any effort on my part, and I top up once a fortnight at Waitrose, where the self-checkouts don't have exit bars, or queues either.

BJ

To describe it as a cattle pen is absurd - it's no different to gates at a railway station. You don't object to having to prove you have a train ticket.

I know this extra precaution against the increasing amount of theft by "shoppers" has caused some discomfort, but I really cannot see any reason for getting all emotional or uppity about it. Really, it is very simple - just scan your receipt to show you've paid (or "bought a ticket" equivalent on the railways) and walk on.

I've noticed some confusion amongst shoppers where it is a new device and I've sometimes helped them, but no anger as such. These things will become more common as we protect ourselves (yes, it is the interest of ALL of us to prevent theft) against those who thieve.

Arb.

[bungeejumper]

[To describe it as a cattle pen is absurd - it's no different to gates at a railway station. You don't object to having to prove you have a train ticket.

With respect and all that, you haven't seen it. It's a cattle pen, with chrome instead of galvanised bars.

And we could argue fruitlessly about how it's become a necessity in these kleptomaniac times, but the bottom line is still that I'll choose to shop somewhere that doesn't treat me that way. I have plenty of choice.

BJ

[88V8]

To describe it as a cattle pen is absurd - it's no different to gates at a railway station. You don't object to having to prove you have a train ticket.

With respect and all that, you haven't seen it. It's a cattle pen, with chrome instead of galvanised bars.

And we could argue fruitlessly about how it's become a necessity in these kleptomaniac times, but the bottom line is still that I'll choose to shop somewhere that doesn't treat me that way. I have plenty of choice.

We choose not to use self-scan at all, anywhere, just another unwelcome step in the depersonalisation of shopping.

V8

[XFool]

Anyway, the self-checkout area in Sainsburys is now a closed cattle pen with shiny chrome gates that won't even let you leave the store until you've scanned your till receipt, so as to prove you're not a thief. To say I'm insulted is something of an understatement. I guess the store management just have to do what they have to do? But that's one more reason for me to choose another place to shop.

To describe it as a cattle pen is absurd - it's no different to gates at a railway station. You don't object to having to prove you have a train ticket.

I know this extra precaution against the increasing amount of theft by "shoppers" has caused some discomfort, but I really cannot see any reason for getting all emotional or uppity about it. Really, it is very simple - just scan your receipt to show you've paid (or "bought a ticket" equivalent on the railways) and walk on.

I've noticed some confusion amongst shoppers where it is a new device and I've sometimes helped them, but no anger as such. These things will become more common as we protect ourselves (yes, it is the interest of ALL of us to prevent theft) against those who thieve.

The one thing that puzzles thing about the Aldi self scan is that most times I exit the scan area the alarm goes off. Nobody seems to take much notice, though.

[Lootman]

Aldi and Lidl, on the other hand, I've used once or twice and have always come out swearing not to go back. Both are truly dreadful places to be in which do nothing to make shopping a pleasant experience.

Totally with you on that, Arb. Local Sainsbury's is big, has wide aisles, scan while I shop and can be in and out for a weekly shop in 30 minutes.
Aldi/Lidl I totally hate. Narrow aisles, long queues for the checkout (often only one open). I only go there if my wife begs or threatens me,

I have never been in an Aldi or a Lidl, presuming them to be awful. Glad to hear my instincts were right.

[mc2fool]

Anyway, the self-checkout area in Sainsburys is now a closed cattle pen with shiny chrome gates that won't even let you leave the store until you've scanned your till receipt, so as to prove you're not a thief. To say I'm insulted is something of an understatement. I guess the store management just have to do what they have to do? But that's one more reason for me to choose another place to shop.

The gates don't stop you leaving the store, they stop you leaving the self-checkout area (unless you tailgate someone else, which is easy enough to do), and I must admit I'm puzzled as to what they're actually supposed to stop and how.

It doesn't stop someone walking into the store, surreptitiously slipping something into their pocket/bag and walking out without going through any checkout (self or otherwise), and it doesn't stop someone going into the self-checkout area and using slight of hand to sneak some items into their bags (once they're off the scales of course) or pockets without scanning them, just as they could have done before anyway. So, yes, they paid for some shopping and have a receipt that will let them out, but they didn't pay for everything they walk out with.

What maybe does help prevent the latter is the small screens at each self-checkout machine that show you at the machine, with the obvious message of "you are being watched", and I'll bet that it won't be too long before you actually are being actively watched by some AI trained in slight of hand manoeuvres...

Anyway, not all Sainsbury's have the gates, and according to one article at least, "The supermarket is by no means the first to introduce such a requirement, with some branches of Tesco Express, Primark, Ikea and Costco also reportedly trialling or implementing similar policies, which are also common in many European countries." https://www.independent.co.uk/news/busi ... 47476.html

[XFool]

Anyway, the self-checkout area in Sainsburys is now a closed cattle pen with shiny chrome gates that won't even let you leave the store until you've scanned your till receipt, so as to prove you're not a thief. To say I'm insulted is something of an understatement. I guess the store management just have to do what they have to do? But that's one more reason for me to choose another place to shop.

Oh, that reminds me...

Years ago now, my very same Sainsbury's once installed 'one way' gates at the entrance - I have no recollection why - you were not supposed to exit via them. That is, they resisted people exiting. But if you pushed hard enough (I did!) they gave way (mandatory Fire Exit precaution?) and you could leave. Though an alarm would then sound.

Of course, the presumption was you were going to purchase something and only exit via the tills. Well, Mr Sainsbury, let me tell you something...

Eventually the gates were removed.

[kempiejon]

What maybe does help prevent the latter is the small screens at each self-checkout machine that show you at the machine, with the obvious message of "you are being watched", and I'll bet that it won't be too long before you actually are being actively watched by some AI trained in slight of hand manoeuvres...

Yeah I noticed this innovation middle of last year, I always point the screen and hence camera away from me, I'm expecting a member of staff to comment on this inevitably. I like the self service option but use the manned tills with bigger shops as I prefer to load straight into the trolley. I am prepared to have to wait a bit longer for personal service but I don't like having to wait longer at self service to get my sherry authorised whilst someone else is having technical difficulties working the scan and scales.
I was a bit miffed when I was reprimanded by the self service staff member who told me I had to take my basket to the basket self-serve as I was in the trolley self-serve pen.

[Lootman]

The gates don't stop you leaving the store, they stop you leaving the self-checkout area (unless you tailgate someone else, which is easy enough to do), and I must admit I'm puzzled as to what they're actually supposed to stop and how.

It doesn't stop someone walking into the store, surreptitiously slipping something into their pocket/bag and walking out without going through any checkout (self or otherwise), and it doesn't stop someone going into the self-checkout area and using slight of hand to sneak some items into their bags (once they're off the scales of course) or pockets without scanning them, just as they could have done before anyway. So, yes, they paid for some shopping and have a receipt that will let them out, but they didn't pay for everything they walk out with.

Not that I am a criminal mastermind but I would have thought that a third method is the best: To wander around the shop putting some things in your basket/trolley and some things in your bag. Rather than try that in the checkout area where there are eyes on you. And that strategy would work equally well with a human cashier.

This was brought home to me recently when I bought the wrong kind of coffee at my local supermarket. Rather than faff about trying to get a refund, I took the item back to the shop, put it back on the shelf and grabbed the item I had meant to buy. As it happened these were the same price and so I simply put the replacement item in my bag.

Clearly I was not stealing anything but my actions were similar to what you might do if you were. So I felt a bit wary going through checkout, but all was well.

[bungeejumper]

It doesn't stop someone walking into the store, surreptitiously slipping something into their pocket/bag and walking out without going through any checkout (self or otherwise), and it doesn't stop someone going into the self-checkout area and using slight of hand to sneak some items into their bags (once they're off the scales of course) or pockets without scanning them, just as they could have done before anyway. So, yes, they paid for some shopping and have a receipt that will let them out, but they didn't pay for everything they walk out with.

I wonder the same thing. Unless, of course, they can detect the RFID tag on the expensive item that you've just snitched? The gate checks your receipt number against the till you just used, and if the item with the RFID isn't on the till's list of things you've been charged for, then it's a call to store security?

What maybe does help prevent the latter is the small screens at each self-checkout machine that show you at the machine, with the obvious message of "you are being watched", and I'll bet that it won't be too long before you actually are being actively watched by some AI trained in slight of hand manoeuvres...

Definitely, it's a psychological deterrent to the criminally inclined. It won't work well, of course, because some people are either too poor to be worth prosecuting, or too hard-core to care. Sainsbury's problem is that it works on me, and not in the desired way. I'll still shop there occasionally, but only when I can queue at the assistant till for just a short time, and not have to use the self checkout at all.

Already, I'm noticing that footfall in that store seems to have dropped by a lot since last year. Maybe they're all shopping in Aldi and Lidl instead? They're sure as heck not in Waitrose.

BJ

[XFool]

Does anyone remember the old days of fully manned tills, where they had a (cough!) 'Fast Lane' for x items or less?

In my local Sainsbury's (Yes!) that was always staffed by the oldest and slowest till operator in the store...

Are you starting to get the picture?

[bungeejumper]

Does anyone remember the old days of fully manned tills, where they had a (cough!) 'Fast Lane' for x items or less?

In my local Sainsbury's (Yes!) that was always staffed by the oldest and slowest till operator in the store...

Any store that introduces a "no chat, no coupons, no refunds, no kidding" aisle will get my business. Probably.

BJ

[mc2fool]

What maybe does help prevent the latter is the small screens at each self-checkout machine that show you at the machine, with the obvious message of "you are being watched", and I'll bet that it won't be too long before you actually are being actively watched by some AI trained in slight of hand manoeuvres...

Yeah I noticed this innovation middle of last year, I always point the screen and hence camera away from me, I'm expecting a member of staff to comment on this inevitably. I like the self service option but use the manned tills with bigger shops as I prefer to load straight into the trolley. I am prepared to have to wait a bit longer for personal service but I don't like having to wait longer at self service to get my sherry authorised whilst someone else is having technical difficulties working the scan and scales.
I was a bit miffed when I was reprimanded by the self service staff member who told me I had to take my basket to the basket self-serve as I was in the trolley self-serve pen.

Uh? Surely in all cases you load into your bags, no? Sure, in the (nowadays rare) occasions when I go through a human checkout the bags are in the trolley, open and ready, but I still load directly into the bags, as that's where it'll all end up anyway....

The separate self-checkout areas for trolleys and baskets seems to be something that most supermarkets have implemented in the past few months or so, but at my nearest Sainsbury's the balance is wrong and there's often a queue at the baskets section while the trolley section is under utilised, but being next to each other the staff often just redirect excess basket users to the trolley section.

Both Lidl and Aldi have recently introduced a rule that trolleys can only go through the human checkouts, and when me and my trolley were directed away from the self checkout for the first time at my nearest Aldi, on seeing that the human checkouts had women shopping for armies, I went and got a wheeled basket, transferred my shopping into it and went through the self checkout (keeping the trolley in sight off to the side, so I could get my £1 back afterwards!). The lady supervising the self checkouts just laughed and said that lots of people had been doing the same.

[kempiejon]

Uh? Surely in all cases you load into your bags, no? Sure, in the (nowadays rare) occasions when I go through a human checkout the bags are in the trolley, open and ready, but I still load directly into the bags, as that's where it'll all end up anyway....

Well I prefer to load directly into the bags in the trolley rather than fill the SS scale with my bags then fill them then with my items be I transfer the now heavy bags to the trolley, it's double handling and the full bags are much heavier than any individual item. I have big bags and heavy shopping when I do a big trolley shop hence prefer the direct load from checkout to trolley. At self checkout I have to have the security tag removed from the Drambuie at the end of the shop but I would rather have already been approved and have the bottle deep in the bag neatly packed rather than have to add it at the end spoiling my packing system.
But I understand the differences between SS and manned and make the appropriate choices.

In respect of the trolley and basked SS, mostly I try my lucky at the easier looking pen in both Tesco and Morrisons without issue but I was reprimanded that once at Morrisons. For mischief It did occur to me to put a basket in a small trolley covering both eventualities, or holding a couple of items in my hands go to the staff member as I was confused which pen to use as I have neither basket nor trolley.

[88V8]

Any store that introduces a "no chat, no coupons, no refunds, no kidding" aisle will get my business. Probably.

Aldi....

V8

[robbelg]

Doesn't anyone use the hand held scanners?
Pick up an item scan it put it in bag, at the end go to the special tills (never a queue ) pay and go. No double handling and only have to interact with staff if something has a tag or (as usual ) I am buying booze.

Rob

[Arborbridge]

Doesn't anyone use the hand held scanners?
Pick up an item scan it put it in bag, at the end go to the special tills (never a queue ) pay and go. No double handling and only have to interact with staff if something has a tag or (as usual ) I am buying booze.

Rob

Yes - I've always used them since they first came in. Never a problem and I don't understand why the mass of people do not use them - but I'm glad they don't as it leaves the machine free for us!

Arb.