Council Tax 'Reminder'

[staffordian]

I assume it will be re-rated when it is sold, but maybe not?

Unless things have changed, there is no automatic revaluation when a property is sold.

It used to be the case that if an owner extended/improved their property such that it warranted a higher band, then that band would not be applied until it was sold, but again, I don't know what mechanism was applied to ensure this was picked up, given the local authority dealt with planning and building control etc, and the Valuation Office deal with banding. Maybe LAs send planning details to the VO?

[Dod101]

Obviously many people have got a lot less to worry about than me. All this fuss about paying Council Tax?

Get a life!

There are people with lives who don't like being treated like dirt by councils who are too arrogant, and often too incompetent, to bother with the legitimate concerns of the little people who pay their bloated salaries. Perhaps you could explain which part of that you find hard to understand?

BJ

If BJ treats council employees as in his response to me then I am not surprised he gets a poor service.

I live in a part of the country where civil servants are mostly civil and if not I would have no hesitation in referring the matter to my councillor. I note that the attitude of the public is often arrogant (such as in this thread). I have invariably found if I remember that civil servants are human just like the rest of us and treat them accordingly they will repay me in kind. If some computer churns out an unnecessary reminder so what? If people on this thread had something to worry about they would not be quite so keen to react the way quite a few obviously do. That is what I mean by 'Get a life'.

Dod

[bungeejumper]

If BJ treats council employees as in his response to me then I am not surprised he gets a poor service.

If Dod could have been @rsed to read this thread properly, then he'd have noticed that "arrogant" posters such as myself were citing incidents where they had been wrongly subjected to legal threats and injustices. And where many of the avenues of recourse that he takes for granted had been deliberately closed off by the high and mighty. If he is surprised that people don't like that, then I am lost for words.

I live in a part of the country where civil servants are mostly civil and if not I would have no hesitation in referring the matter to my councillor....I have invariably found if I remember that civil servants are human just like the rest of us and treat them accordingly they will repay me in kind.

Bully for you, because I don't. My county council is the kind of place where the top bods vote themselves a 38% expenses increase and a 15% annual pay rise while axing essential services. (Which they did a few years back.) Where the school buses have been stopped in order to pay for a staff car park at County Hall. Where I've been officially told that I face prosecution if I put a plastic food container into my plastic recycling bin. (It takes bottles only - everything else goes to landfill.) Where I am doing the wrong thing by filling my green waste bin to 75% capacity. (It's being greedy apparently, and I obviously have too many trees in my garden, and I ought to rip some of them out. Although, in fairness, the chief of environmental services who said that to me did eventually get the sack for other misdemeanours.)

And so on, and so on, and so on. It sounds like you have more luck than me with your council, Dod, but do try to understand that others in other locations are less fortunate, and it grinds you down in the end. My local civil service has a lot of nice people too, but the decision-makers at the top have often made it plain that they don't intend to bother themselves with dealing with the public's concerns. and where the avenues for recourse have been actively closed off. But there I go, repeating myself. And I have a life to get on with.

BJ

[Lootman]

Another thing that pees me off is that my council annually wants me to tell it everyone who is living at my property.

Now this has no effect on the amount of council tax due, unless I am claiming the discount for a single occupant which I am not. If there are two or more people adults living here it has no effect on the council tax due. So why the heck do they think they need to know the names and identities of all residents? As long as I am paying the full tax due, it's none of their damn business who I live with.

And particularly so since it's the same council that administers the electoral roll which, again, asks for all adult residents.

I routinely enjoy omitting any resident who does not wish their identity and address to be known by the council.

[didds]

There are people with lives who don't like being treated like dirt by councils who are too arrogant, and often too incompetent, to bother with the legitimate concerns of the little people who pay their bloated salaries.

BJ

I was shocked to be told that allegedly there are six local county council members with salaries higher than that of the Prime Minister...

so I am with BJ

didds

[chas49]

Another thing that pees me off is that my council annually wants me to tell it everyone who is living at my property.

Now this has no effect on the amount of council tax due, unless I am claiming the discount for a single occupant which I am not. If there are two or more people adults living here it has no effect on the council tax due. So why the heck do they think they need to know the names and identities of all residents? As long as I am paying the full tax due, it's none of their damn business who I live with.

And particularly so since it's the same council that administers the electoral roll which, again, asks for all adult residents.

I routinely enjoy omitting any resident who does not wish their identity and address to be known by the council.

The short answer is that the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 impose an obligation on you to supply that information when properly requested by a billing authority - and make it an offence not to supply the correct information.

In practice, it may be that councils aren't too bothered about chasing up details if the tax is paid, but I'm not sure I would routinely enjoy risking prosecution.... YMMV

[swill453]

Another thing that pees me off is that my council annually wants me to tell it everyone who is living at my property.

I guess it's in their (the people's) benefit, as it provides a track record that they were resident somewhere that council tax was being paid for.

If they were to move somewhere else, it could prevent any dispute arising over their starting date i.e. suspicion that they were living somewhere without paying council tax.

Scott.

[Lootman]

Another thing that pees me off is that my council annually wants me to tell it everyone who is living at my property.

I guess it's in their (the people's) benefit, as it provides a track record that they were resident somewhere that council tax was being paid for.

If they were to move somewhere else, it could prevent any dispute arising over their starting date i.e. suspicion that they were living somewhere without paying council tax.

That is plausible. However if that person moves from merely being the third adult in my household to being the third adult in another household, then no council tax is being missed out on anyway.

And when that has happened in my case, e.g. when my adult children left home, not only did they move to other multi-occupant households but they were in a different local authority anyway.

It would make more sense if we still had Thatcher's poll tax, where every resident had an individual local tax obligation. But not so much when the local tax is essentially property-based. If every building in my LA is paying its tax, then who lives where and when hardly matters.

I would routinely enjoy risking prosecution.... YMMV

Yes, I did have some twerp from the council come around and complain that the electoral roll for my property was not complete. He told me it was a crime. Then he went away and I never heard about it again!

[Dod101]

Poor old BJ has a problem- yes? He should consider moving to a more amenable council area or modify his own views, or probably best, talk to his local councillor. I suppose, though, that he/she will be of the wrong political persuasion for BJ. Poor chap. My advice would be to go somewhere outside his comfort zone and see how he gets on. Local authorities are not able dictate against the wishes of the councillors I would have thought and so it sounds as if democracy does not suit BJ.

Dod

[staffordian]

I was shocked to be told that allegedly there are six local county council members with salaries higher than that of the Prime Minister...

so I am with BJ

didds

I was not aware that council members were paid a salary. Unless things have changed relatively recently, I thought they could only claim expenses. To get more than the PM, there must be some pretty generous expense claims being submitted.

Perhaps worth an FOI request to see what is being claimed?

[Lootman]

I was shocked to be told that allegedly there are six local county council members with salaries higher than that of the Prime Minister...so I am with BJ

I was not aware that council members were paid a salary. Unless things have changed relatively recently, I thought they could only claim expenses. To get more than the PM, there must be some pretty generous expense claims being submitted.

Perhaps worth an FOI request to see what is being claimed?

My issue isn't even so much with the officers and elected representatives, but rather the layers of middle managers on fat salary packages.

The last time I looked at the Guardian (something I try and avoid to keep my blood pressure down) I saw reams of job openings for various councils across the land for things like "Diversity Executive" on 80K a year plus car.

Seems we just spray taxpayer money at these fat-cat bureaucrat middle-managers with golden pension plans.

Of course, don't even get me started on the councils' apparent open-ended obligation to house anyone who shows up.

We need a tea party.

[Maroochydore]

I was not aware that council members were paid a salary. Unless things have changed relatively recently, I thought they could only claim expenses. To get more than the PM, there must be some pretty generous expense claims being submitted.

Perhaps worth an FOI request to see what is being claimed?

This is a bit out-of-date but are answers to "How much do you get paid for being a Councillor? How many hours do you have to work? " by Coventry City councillors https://coventry.bigvote.org.uk/2010/10 ... workthank/

Of course they all play down the amounts received by relating it to an hourly rate. I'm sure these are probably the 'here to serve' councillors whilst the arrogant ones won't even acknowledge the pleb who asked the question.

[staffordian]

I was not aware that council members were paid a salary. Unless things have changed relatively recently, I thought they could only claim expenses. To get more than the PM, there must be some pretty generous expense claims being submitted.

Perhaps worth an FOI request to see what is being claimed?

This is a bit out-of-date but are answers to "How much do you get paid for being a Councillor? How many hours do you have to work? " by Coventry City councillors https://coventry.bigvote.org.uk/2010/10 ... workthank/

Of course they all play down the amounts received by relating it to an hourly rate. I'm sure these are probably the 'here to serve' councillors whilst the arrogant ones won't even acknowledge the pleb who asked the question.

Interesting, and in line with my understanding.

I suspect didds has been told a rather tall story; I doubt any councillors in the UK manage to trouser the best part of £150k, let alone six in one county council.

[UncleEbenezer]

Seems we just spray taxpayer money at these fat-cat bureaucrat middle-managers with golden pension plans.

We know about civil servants. It's quite explicit on one episode that Sir Humphrey got paid over £30k, that being £7k more than Hacker.

Of course, don't even get me started on the councils' apparent open-ended obligation to house anyone who shows up.
We need a tea party.

I suspect that's illusory. Nothing has happened since I applied to them when my then-landlady served me with notice to quit in 2005. You have to get onto someone's radar to start claiming that sort of thing. Unless perhaps your council is a lot more desperate than mine to keep housing costs ever more artificially inflated.

[bungeejumper]

Poor old BJ has a problem- yes? He should consider moving to a more amenable council area or modify his own views, or probably best, talk to his local councillor. I suppose, though, that he/she will be of the wrong political persuasion for BJ. Poor chap. My advice would be to go somewhere outside his comfort zone and see how he gets on. Local authorities are not able dictate against the wishes of the councillors I would have thought and so it sounds as if democracy does not suit BJ.

Dod, you spend half your time talking nonsense (we should all move to your council area, right?), but now you're getting downright offensive. Just give it a rest, will you? I am reluctant to call the moderators, but if you carry on with this ad hominem stuff then you will leave me with no alternative.

My party politics have absolutely nothing to do with anything, or anybody. And at no point have I tried to make any derogatory connections in that vector. But if you want to stretch your legs in that direction, then kindly direct them toward the Polite Discussions board, where I'm sure you'll find others willing to take you on at that level. In the meantime, in case you feel it informs your opinion in any way, this particular self-rewarding council is 100% solid Tory, and always has been. Awkward, I know, but there we are.

End of.

BJ

[redsturgeon]

Moderator Message:
OK I've seen it for myself so no report necessary. No more personal remarks on this thread please. This is "Bitter Lemons" but lay off the bitterness toward fellow posters

[ten0rman]

To be fair, whenever I've spoken to people at the local council, I've always found them quite reasonable except in the case I reported here where a seming old biddy couldn't understand what was going on. Anyway, I'd like to mention, what to me was quite a funny incident, and I don't mean it in a nasty way...

What happened was that I was in discussions with the planners about a porch extension and right from the beginning the lady I spoke to insisted on my plans being metric. Now in one sense, I was quite pleased because many years ago I deliberately made myself work in metric and these days I tend to think mainly in metric, so I wasn't at all bothered by that request. Anyway, one day I rang her up to clarify a point, and during the discussion this was said:

Lady Planner: "Of course we're not really bothered about the odd inch!"
Me, after a short pause: "Er, excuse me, what are these inches you've just mentioned."
Further short pause, then I started giggling.

Interestingly, she became reasonably friendly after that one. And I got the plans passed.

ten0rman

[stevensfo]

Another thing that pees me off is that my council annually wants me to tell it everyone who is living at my property.

Now this has no effect on the amount of council tax due, unless I am claiming the discount for a single occupant which I am not. If there are two or more people adults living here it has no effect on the council tax due. So why the heck do they think they need to know the names and identities of all residents? As long as I am paying the full tax due, it's none of their damn business who I live with.

And particularly so since it's the same council that administers the electoral roll which, again, asks for all adult residents.

I routinely enjoy omitting any resident who does not wish their identity and address to be known by the council.

The short answer is that the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 impose an obligation on you to supply that information when properly requested by a billing authority - and make it an offence not to supply the correct information.

In practice, it may be that councils aren't too bothered about chasing up details if the tax is paid, but I'm not sure I would routinely enjoy risking prosecution.... YMMV

I must confess that I didn't know this, and I think it's a step too far. Not paying tax is an offence, okay, and if you lie and say that you're the only occupant in order to benefit from the lower rate, then you deserve everything you get. But having to actually give the names of everybody in your house? Come on! That would be setting one of those small precedents that just take us closer to the Orwellian nightmare.

Steve

[stewamax]

"No man is under any obligation to pay more than his fair share, and is fully entitled to reduce his share as much as he can, legally

Tax avoidance is in this category - but HMRC views it slightly differently.

[ten0rman]

AIUI, the annual return in October is for the Electoral Roll only. Certainly when my youngest was living with us permanently, he appeared on it, but never appeared on the council tax form.

One thing that I do not like about the ER was that "they" expect it back more or less by return - and it's usually issued in September. One year, we knew that our youngest was due to leave us, but wasn't sure when so I didn't return it pending his clarification. I then received a second form, which duly got "filed". Then, once his situation had been resolved, I filled in the form and returned it and this was long before the due date of October 13 (15?). On the day that I put in the post box, there came a knock at the door and a council representative asking about it. Effectively, his job, for which he got paid on how many returns he garnered, was to chase up the late returners. I told him I'd posted it, but he still wanted the info so I gave it him - after all his pay depended on it. Perhaps I should have refused on the grounds that I object to being harassed like this, and I've returned it in good time.

But it does seem all wrong that they put an effective date, October 13, on it, but then do not seemingly allow you to wait until your personal situation is clearer.

ten0rman