Donate to Remove ads

Got a credit card? use our Credit Card & Finance Calculators

Thanks to johnstevens77,Bhoddhisatva,scotia,Anonymous,Cornytiv34, for Donating to support the site

I'm moving to England

Grumpy Old Lemons Like You
Dod101
The full Lemon
Posts: 16629
Joined: October 10th, 2017, 11:33 am
Has thanked: 4343 times
Been thanked: 7534 times

Re: I'm moving to England

#104129

Postby Dod101 » December 14th, 2017, 1:43 pm

Apart from the State pension (and that is covered by the Personal Allowance), all my income comes from dividends and about 75% of these are in ISAs or a SIPP so I do not think it will affect me very much but the idea of a significant difference in taxation levels between Scotland England seems unwise to me. Those most affected are likely to be the most mobile.

I won't be going anywhere.

Dod

malkymoo
Lemon Slice
Posts: 349
Joined: November 23rd, 2016, 9:45 am
Has thanked: 29 times
Been thanked: 116 times

Re: I'm moving to England

#104187

Postby malkymoo » December 14th, 2017, 4:37 pm

Well it looks at a first glance that anyone with a taxable income of less than £33k will be better off. A wee Christmas giftie from that nice Ms Sturgeon to all the pensioners north of the border.

Not enough to tempt me to move though.

redsturgeon
Lemon Half
Posts: 8912
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:06 am
Has thanked: 1309 times
Been thanked: 3667 times

Re: I'm moving to England

#104199

Postby redsturgeon » December 14th, 2017, 5:06 pm

malkymoo wrote:Well it looks at a first glance that anyone with a taxable income of less than £33k will be better off. A wee Christmas giftie from that nice Ms Sturgeon to all the pensioners north of the border.

Not enough to tempt me to move though.


Is there more in it than just the 1p extra tax?

If not then surely after the break even point at £33k we are talking about losing an extra penny for every pound earned.

So someone earning £133k pa will lose £1000...is that such a big deal?

John

swill453
Lemon Half
Posts: 7962
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 6:11 pm
Has thanked: 984 times
Been thanked: 3643 times

Re: I'm moving to England

#104206

Postby swill453 » December 14th, 2017, 5:18 pm

The new rates are:

19p Starter rate from £11,850 to £13,850
20p Basic rate from £13,851 to £24,000
21p Intermediate rate from £24,001 to £44,273
41p Higher rate from £44,274 to £150,000
46p Additional rate from £150,000

So higher earners pay more than just the extra 1p.

Scott.

redsturgeon
Lemon Half
Posts: 8912
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:06 am
Has thanked: 1309 times
Been thanked: 3667 times

Re: I'm moving to England

#104208

Postby redsturgeon » December 14th, 2017, 5:23 pm

swill453 wrote:The new rates are:

19p Starter rate from £11,850 to £13,850
20p Basic rate from £13,851 to £24,000
21p Intermediate rate from £24,001 to £44,273
41p Higher rate from £44,274 to £150,000
46p Additional rate from £150,000

So higher earners pay more than just the extra 1p.

Scott.


Not sure I understand.

I assume old higher rate was 40p, now 41p...1p extra per pound.

Old additional rate 45p, now 46p...1p extra per pound.

Therefore on an additional income of £100,000 above the break even point an extra £1000 is paid.

Or am I missing something?

John

TUK020
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2039
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 7:41 am
Has thanked: 762 times
Been thanked: 1175 times

Re: I'm moving to England

#104211

Postby TUK020 » December 14th, 2017, 5:39 pm

That was the one key benefit of Proportional Representation.
How else could I vote for Scottish Devolution from Surrey Heath?
Tuk020

swill453
Lemon Half
Posts: 7962
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 6:11 pm
Has thanked: 984 times
Been thanked: 3643 times

Re: I'm moving to England

#104214

Postby swill453 » December 14th, 2017, 5:43 pm

redsturgeon wrote:Therefore on an additional income of £100,000 above the break even point an extra £1000 is paid.

Or am I missing something?

You're probably right, I haven't really thought it through. I have a Scottish tax code but pay no tax at the moment so not affected.

There are various tables doing the rounds showing the difference, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-42356953 for example.

Scott.

scotia
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3561
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 8:43 pm
Has thanked: 2371 times
Been thanked: 1943 times

Re: I'm moving to England

#104224

Postby scotia » December 14th, 2017, 6:18 pm

I'm staying in Scotland! And I'll be paying a bit more tax - but I can afford it.
However the new rates have been made much more complex simply to score Brownie points, not to achieve any sensible aims.
The bottom rate of 19% only applies over a band of £2000 - so the maximum gain is £20. This is ludicrous - make it 10% and there may be some benefit to the lower paid. But I suppose it lets them claim that there is a tax reduction for everyone below £24000 where the new 21% band starts.
At least accountants should benefit as all calculation software will need a substantial update to handle the new needless additional bands.

scotia
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3561
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 8:43 pm
Has thanked: 2371 times
Been thanked: 1943 times

Re: I'm moving to England

#104229

Postby scotia » December 14th, 2017, 6:50 pm

Just a bit of clarification for our English friends - as well as the extra 1p, the Scottish Higher Rate (41%) band starts at a lower level than the English Band. In 2018/19 it will start at 46351 in England, but 44275 in Scotland. So a rough calculation suggests that on earnings of £50,000 an English Tax payer will pay £8360 tax, while a Scottish Tax payer will pay £9014.

Dod101
The full Lemon
Posts: 16629
Joined: October 10th, 2017, 11:33 am
Has thanked: 4343 times
Been thanked: 7534 times

Re: I'm moving to England

#104238

Postby Dod101 » December 14th, 2017, 7:48 pm

Well if we all think the SNP deal is bad, we ain't seen nothing yet if that nice Mr Corbyn gets in at the next General Election. I hate the SNP and all it stands for but if Mr Corbyn carries out his promises he will probably make the Sturgeon look positively right of centre.

Dod

AleisterCrowley
Lemon Half
Posts: 6381
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 11:35 am
Has thanked: 1880 times
Been thanked: 2026 times

Re: I'm moving to England

#104255

Postby AleisterCrowley » December 14th, 2017, 9:39 pm

Are the personal allowances the same ? Is there the £1 reduction per £2 over £100k etc?

Alaric
Lemon Half
Posts: 6033
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 9:05 am
Has thanked: 20 times
Been thanked: 1399 times

Re: I'm moving to England

#104264

Postby Alaric » December 14th, 2017, 9:52 pm

ap8889 wrote:The Telegraph rightly points out this will create problems for Scots with reclaiming tax on pensions contributions: how much are they able to reclaim?


Assuming 20% relief given at source, presumably something in the Self Assessment similar to the treatment of higher rate taxpayers to reclaim or collect any shortfall or excess. It isn't a new problem, did anyone think about it when the Scottish government was given the power to tinker with tax rates?

scotia
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3561
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 8:43 pm
Has thanked: 2371 times
Been thanked: 1943 times

Re: I'm moving to England

#104288

Postby scotia » December 14th, 2017, 11:42 pm

Roll on Indyref2.

Turkeys don't usually vote for Xmas.

redsturgeon
Lemon Half
Posts: 8912
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:06 am
Has thanked: 1309 times
Been thanked: 3667 times

Re: I'm moving to England

#104298

Postby redsturgeon » December 15th, 2017, 6:21 am

ap8889 wrote:I don't have a dog in this fight, as I see that I would have been well over a grand worse off had I chosen to relocate North, so now will never now need to bother seriously considering Scotland as a possible work destination.

I am happy that the hypothesis that the middle classes will be happy to pay higher taxes in return for boosting spending on the NHS and education is getting a real world test. I am even happier my household is not stuck in Scotland directly paying for the experiment.

Except that via the Barnett Formula, in reality I am paying. Paying for Nichola Sturgeon to pose as a student socialist. She really is a substandard leader of a subarctic nation. Roll on Indyref2.


interesting to note that the loss of less than a couple of thousand is sufficient to stop any thoughts of moving to Scotland, clearly the desire to live and work north of the border was not that strong.

One of George Osbourne's last budgets cost me way more than that in extra tax on dividends and it has not changed my life in any way.

If you paid for prescriptions in England that's a saving for you in Scotland plus having any children going to university would easily mean you still benefit hugely as a family to the tune of £9k pa.

Please note that personally I have no desire to move to Scotland but if I did then I really would not let a couple of grand in extra income tax sway my decision without considering the bigger picture.

John

taylor20
Lemon Pip
Posts: 66
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 11:59 am
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 22 times

Re: I'm moving to England

#104306

Postby taylor20 » December 15th, 2017, 7:58 am

redsturgeon wrote:If you paid for prescriptions in England that's a saving for you in Scotland...
John


Often wonder how much this costs, (EDIT: About £900m in Scotland (Total from 2011 - 2015???) https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/30m-surge-in-cost-of-free-prescriptions-1-3734151), since the vast majority of 'heavy' users are exempt (Under 16s, students, over 60s, pregnant/new mums, people on low income, etc. http://psnc.org.uk/dispensing-supply/receiving-a-prescription/patient-charges/exemptions/), and its effectively capped at £100/annum anyway (via Prepayment https://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/help-nhs-prescription-costs/prescription-prepayment-certificates).

So when compared to the £9000 of student debt or even the £1000 extra income tax is not really worth a mention.

taylor20
Lemon Pip
Posts: 66
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 11:59 am
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 22 times

Re: I'm moving to England

#104313

Postby taylor20 » December 15th, 2017, 9:11 am

Trying to reconcile that £900m figure.

Scotland’s NHS paid 3.5 per cent more to cover the costs of free medicines between April and December for 2014-15, than it did in the same period in the previous year, with the bill for the policy now standing at nearly £900m. *1


Scottish population (2016) is roughly 5.7m, 15% under 15, 23% over 60, 62% 15-59, i.e. approx. 3.5m not except from prescription charges by age alone. *2

Assuming £900m is the cost of the policy for 2012, 2013, 2014, or £300m a year. That would only be the case if everyone (not already except) spent £100 on prescriptions. So this figure is clearly fluff.

To compare in England (population 53m) approx. £450m is collected from prescription charges per annum, so in Scotland with 10% of the population one would expect this to be approx. £45m???!?


*1 - https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/30m-surge-in-cost-of-free-prescriptions-1-3734151
*2 - https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationestimates/datasets/populationestimatesforukenglandandwalesscotlandandnorthernireland

didds
Lemon Half
Posts: 5244
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 12:04 pm
Has thanked: 3244 times
Been thanked: 1018 times

Re: I'm moving to England

#104315

Postby didds » December 15th, 2017, 9:33 am

redsturgeon wrote: having any children going to university would easily mean you still benefit hugely as a family to the tune of £9k pa.



yeee...eee.rrr..sssss IF that 9k pa ever actually ends up being paid back anyway.

70% of graduates will never pay off their student loan it seems (via a google search).

But that's a possible derail!

didds

redsturgeon
Lemon Half
Posts: 8912
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:06 am
Has thanked: 1309 times
Been thanked: 3667 times

Re: I'm moving to England

#104340

Postby redsturgeon » December 15th, 2017, 12:03 pm

didds wrote:
redsturgeon wrote: having any children going to university would easily mean you still benefit hugely as a family to the tune of £9k pa.



yeee...eee.rrr..sssss IF that 9k pa ever actually ends up being paid back anyway.

70% of graduates will never pay off their student loan it seems (via a google search).

But that's a possible derail!

didds


I think it is worth considering what that statement means though.

Does it mean 70% of student will never completely pay off their student loan?

I don't think it mean 70% will never pay anything.

It quite possible that a student that earns say £20k per annum more than the threshold all their working life until 50 will not ever pay off ALL of their loan but they could have paid 29 year years at £1800 per year (9% of their excess salary above threshold = £52,200). But with interest at 6.1% on their loan they may never pay it back and actually end up owing more each year.

John

Dod101
The full Lemon
Posts: 16629
Joined: October 10th, 2017, 11:33 am
Has thanked: 4343 times
Been thanked: 7534 times

Re: I'm moving to England

#104364

Postby Dod101 » December 15th, 2017, 1:13 pm

redsturgeon can happily say what he has but if faced with the choice I suspect that he would probably chose not to come to work in Scotland between the higher personal taxes, and undoubtedly slower growth in the economy in Scotland plus the big increase in public spending.

An interesting comment in the Times this morning. The SNP are sitting very comfortably in the centre ground with the Conservatives to the right and Labour now to the far left, so essentially at least for the time being they can do what they like (provided they get support from the Greens, and they are not exactly the DUP) So they squeeze the middling and relatively well off, give a modest sop to the lowest paid (will they really be impressed with an extra £20 per annum?) and ramp up public expenditure, which by its nature does nothing to improve the economic well being of the country.

Pure politics and doing absolutely nothing for economic progress, in fact most likely the opposite.

Dod

Lootman
The full Lemon
Posts: 18681
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:58 pm
Has thanked: 628 times
Been thanked: 6563 times

Re: I'm moving to England

#104381

Postby Lootman » December 15th, 2017, 2:09 pm

redsturgeon wrote:If you paid for prescriptions in England that's a saving for you in Scotland plus having any children going to university would easily mean you still benefit hugely as a family to the tune of £9k pa.

Please note that personally I have no desire to move to Scotland but if I did then I really would not let a couple of grand in extra income tax sway my decision without considering the bigger picture.

If you were doing a strict financial comparison then quite possibly the biggest factor in anyone's budget is housing, and I would assume it is significantly cheaper in most of Scotland than, say, southern England. That said, you could say the same about most of Europe, including countries with a much better climate.

My version of"the bigger picture" would include consideration of things like weather and culture. And personally I do not want to move to a higher-tax jurisdiction on principle - I feel my location should reward those places that tax lightly and which reward success rather than punish it.

And with my kids done with college and with no desire to have an even more bloated welfare state, the question is not so much whether I'd move to Scotland but whether I'd stay in the UK. As you note, even Tory governments have been raising taxes, which I find to be profoundly depressing.

Meanwhile the US is very close to enacting some huge tax cuts. Assuming they pass and that you live in a low-tax State, there is probably nowhere in the West so committed to people keeping more of their money and resisting a vast welfare state.


Return to “Bitter Lemons”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests