Proof of Life

[roger4]

I am using this board for a rant. It may seem trivial but I feel it is an indication of how the country of my birth, that I served militarily for 18 years, now regards me (and by implication, my family) as a rip-off merchant.
I am 71 and have just been contacted by Dept of Work and Pensions to complete and return a Proof of Life Certificate. This is the second time since I retired. My mother is 95 this year and she has never been asked to provide such a certificate. Why?
The answer of course, is that I do not reside in UK. I do not burden NHS with my care, I do not have a free travel card, and I do not claim any benefits or allowances from the state. They are so grateful they froze my State Pension when I retired 6.5 years ago (despite me paying in the same way every other employed person pays NI contributions) and now they want proof that I am still "entitled".
The Department has at least given me 16 weeks from the date of their letter to comply with this which is an improvement on the first "request" where I had 6 weeks and I received their letter 5 weeks after it was dated because they never use Airmail. They do, naturally, advise me to use Airmail when I respond. This letter is nearly 4 weeks old because it wasn't Airmailed.
I read regularly how "consideration must be given to those members of society who consider themselves to be neither male nor female". I read how other "unfortunate" groups of people should not be victimized or discriminated against so what price the "Proof of Life"?
Humbug writ large. (Rant over)

It could be argued that I knew about the financial penalties that apply to living where I do before I moved here. That is not the argument, it is the on-going implication that I and my family would not notify THEM when I shuffle off this mortal coil. But all people in UK automatically would notify THEM.

Roger

[bungeejumper]

Gosh, life is a learning ladder and you've just added another rung.

I had no idea that such things existed. But http://www.iexpats.com/state-pension-ax ... s-ignored/ seems to set out the basics of the situation. They're worried that you might go extinct without telling them first (or at all), so that whichever shanty-town knifeman stuck you in the ribs down in the favela can now enjoy a comfortable retirement on the proceeds of your pension book.

“We will assume a pensioner is dead even if they telephone or email us", says the DWP. For cripes sake, what do they want, blood? (No, forget I said that. I'm sure a finger or an earlobe would do.)

Frivolity aside, it's a good rant, and welcome. And it makes my current complaint about the colon cancer people sending me their Poohsticks packages every two years look rather trite by comparison. I imagine that the way forward for you (airmail reply, ideally recorded delivery and from a main post office) is a straightforward process, but I feel your pain anyway. Don't let the bastards grind you down.

BJ

[kiloran]

I confess that I do have some sympathy for the DWP in cases like this. They know nothing about you and your personal circumstances, so when you do finally pop your clogs, they don't know if there will be anyone to inform them. If you were resident in the UK, I imagine that there is some kind of coordination between the NHS, DWP etc.
I think your problems are provoked by the few(?) who try to screw as much out of the state as possible, so the majority are affected by these necessary checks. And if the DWP were found to be paying out to non-existent people, there would be some outrage.

I have similar problems with my french pensions (I am a UK national resident in the UK, but used to work in France). Just a few weeks ago I saw a JP to get my "Attestation d'existence" signed and stamped, so that my private french pensions would continue to be paid. And now I've received a similar (but different) form from the french state pension people requiring the same thing, so I need to see the JP again. It happens every year, and it's frustrating that they can't use the same form, but that's the infamous french administration for you. And I suspect that UK state and private pension authorities have a similar lack of coordination. I'm sure the french taxpayers are happy to know that their taxes are being spent carefully.

--kiloran

[UncleEbenezer]

My mother is 95 this year and she has never been asked to provide such a certificate. Why?

That kind-of makes sense. Assuming your mother is in Blighty, her eventual demise will happen here, so the authorities will be notified of it. Cases of fraud where that doesn't happen are (presumed to be) so rare as to be newsworthy.

Whereas if you expire in some foreign field, how will they know if they don't ask?

One day they'll update to let you do the whole thing electronically and in a timely manner. Perhaps even in your lifetime?

[Dod101]

As a UK taxpayer, the DWP request seems to me to be entirely reasonable although it sounds as though the admin could be improved. In the UK, you register a death with the local registrar and they have a co ordinated 'Tell us once' arrangement whereby the registrar advises all Government depts that need to know of the death so that pensions and any other benefits are paid up to the date of death and then stop.

The DWP is not going to be automatically told if the OP dies unless a relative or friend tells them and meanwhile they are sending the pension to some foreign spot or bank account with no 'handle' on what is happening. I am not in receipt of a UK company pension but I gather that pension fund trustees will occasionally check that their pensioner is still alive. I have a 94 year old friend who still lives alone and quite independently who is amused to get a call every year or two either in person or by phone just enquiring after him and his health. He is under no illusion of course that they are checking to make sure he is still with us.

Dod

[bungeejumper]

I gather that pension fund trustees will occasionally check that their pensioner is still alive. I have a 94 year old friend who still lives alone and quite independently who is amused to get a call every year or two either in person or by phone just enquiring after him and his health. He is under no illusion of course that they are checking to make sure he is still with us.

I gather that this is getting to be quite an issue in Japan, to the extent that the Tokyo statisticians are no longer quite sure how many of all those world-famous centenarians are in fact still on the planet? In a country where nobody really raises an eyebrow about very old age, the tight financial situation has opened up an attractive opportunity for fraud. Just put honourable ancestor into the cherry orchard and keep on drawing the money.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11258071

BJ

[kempiejon]

The answer of course, is that I do not reside in UK. I do not burden NHS with my care, I do not have a free travel card, and I do not claim any benefits or allowances from the state. They are so grateful they froze my State Pension when I retired 6.5 years ago (despite me paying in the same way every other employed person pays NI contributions) and now they want proof that I am still "entitled"...

I guess rather than proof that you're entitled what they actually want is proof that it's you receiving the benefit. I think that sounds reasonable, I'd rather all UK benefits go to those that deserve it and are entitled to it. Keeping benefit fraud has become a topical issue. Considering 30% odd of all government spending is on benefit of which 40% is pensions checking pension encashment seems a sensible part of reducing benefit fraud. https://visual.ons.gov.uk/welfare-spending/ Your non domestic residence perhaps makes you a target which I can see is a pain but a hoop you jump through to get your entitlement, like signing on and keeping your job search record to keep an unemployment claim live and the recent changes to assessments and process for those wanting Personal Independence Payment. A chore for all the individuals concerned.

[6Tricia]

I, too, have to fill in such a form and return it signed and stamped to the German pension authorities ever year. Not a problem - the teller at my bank does this for me. I have a sister in Canada and a friend in the USA in receipt of British pensions who also need to prove they are still in the land of the living each year. We are all in our 80's and hope we'll be sending these forms to the respective authorities for a lot more years .

Tricia