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World Chess Championship 2018

ReformedCharacter
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World Chess Championship 2018

#179135

Postby ReformedCharacter » November 9th, 2018, 10:19 am

Just thought I'd mention that the World Chess Championship between Magnus Carlsen and Fabiano Caruana starts today at 3pm:

Full schedule here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Che ... nship_2018

I usually enjoy watching live analyses of matches and there are generally a number available on Youtube. If I find a good channel for that I will post it here later.

RC

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Re: World Chess Championship 2018

#179171

Postby BBLSP1 » November 9th, 2018, 12:33 pm


Lootman
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Re: World Chess Championship 2018

#182038

Postby Lootman » November 21st, 2018, 8:28 pm

9 draws, 3 games to go.

One mistake will clinch this, but will both players become more risk-averse now?

Carlsen is much better at speed play so the onus is on Caruana to try and get the one win that will probably decide it before a playoff. Could he overpress?

Anyone know when the last world chess championship was between two Westerners? 1800's, perhaps?

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Re: World Chess Championship 2018

#182077

Postby UncleEbenezer » November 21st, 2018, 10:01 pm

Lootman wrote:Anyone know when the last world chess championship was between two Westerners? 1800's, perhaps?

Define Westerner? Wasn't Lasker a German in his time, even if he was born in what is now Poland? Would that make his match against Capablanca two Westerners?
If you include Russians like Kasparov who become Western by defection, you might get a later date.

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Re: World Chess Championship 2018

#182081

Postby Lootman » November 21st, 2018, 10:03 pm

UncleEbenezer wrote:
Lootman wrote:Anyone know when the last world chess championship was between two Westerners? 1800's, perhaps?

Define Westerner? Wasn't Lasker a German in his time, even if he was born in what is now Poland? Would that make his match against Capablanca two Westerners? If you include Russians like Kasparov who become Western by defection, you might get a later date.

I would not include refugees, but Lasker is a good one, and Capablanca was Cuban of course.

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Re: World Chess Championship 2018

#182104

Postby Gengulphus » November 21st, 2018, 10:31 pm

Lootman wrote:Anyone know when the last world chess championship was between two Westerners? 1800's, perhaps?

I think you'll need to decide just how to decide who counts as a 'Westerner' before anyone has a hope of answering that question - there are some borderline cases, such as Alexander Alekhine, born in Russia but granted French citizenship in 1927 and thus French at the time of his world championship matches against the Dutch Max Euwe in 1935 and 1937. Or if Alekhine doesn't count, what about the Cuban José Raúl Capablanca, who contested the 1921 championship with the German Emanuel Lasker? (And is it relevant that that was long before the Cuban Revolution left Cuba only geographically 'Western', not politically so as well?)

And the 1948 championship was an interesting case: determined by a 5-player, quintuple-round-robin tournament rather than the usual 2-player match, and 2 of the 5 players were pretty unambiguously Westerners (Max Euwe and the American Samuel Reshevsky) - so that championship was between two Westerners (among others), but I suspect that answer isn't within the spirit of your question even though it's arguably within its letter.

Anyway, there's a list of the world championships and who they were between in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_W ... mpionships, with links to articles about the individual championships and players, allowing anyone to take the time to settle the question to their own satisfaction - if of course they want to take that much time. But settling it to anyone else's satisfaction is likely to be a more difficult job!

Gengulphus

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Re: World Chess Championship 2018

#182106

Postby Lootman » November 21st, 2018, 10:35 pm

Gengulphus wrote:
Lootman wrote:Anyone know when the last world chess championship was between two Westerners? 1800's, perhaps?

I think you'll need to decide just how to decide who counts as a 'Westerner' before anyone has a hope of answering that question - there are some borderline cases, such as Alexander Alekhine, born in Russia but granted French citizenship in 1927 and thus French at the time of his world championship matches against the Dutch Max Euwe in 1935 and 1937. Or if Alekhine doesn't count, what about the Cuban José Raúl Capablanca, who contested the 1921 championship with the German Emanuel Lasker? (And is it relevant that that was long before the Cuban Revolution left Cuba only geographically 'Western', not politically so as well?)

And the 1948 championship was an interesting case: determined by a 5-player, quintuple-round-robin tournament rather than the usual 2-player match, and 2 of the 5 players were pretty unambiguously Westerners (Max Euwe and the American Samuel Reshevsky) - so that championship was between two Westerners (among others), but I suspect that answer isn't within the spirit of your question even though it's arguably within its letter.

Anyway, there's a list of the world championships and who they were between in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_W ... mpionships, with links to articles about the individual championships and players, allowing anyone to take the time to settle the question to their own satisfaction - if of course they want to take that much time. But settling it to anyone else's satisfaction is likely to be a more difficult job!

Good points. I'd discount Alekhine but agree with Uncle that Lasker against Capablanca counts, so 1921.

I was a pretty mean player in my youth, but have not played competitively for 35 years.

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Re: World Chess Championship 2018

#182437

Postby Charlottesquare » November 23rd, 2018, 12:09 am

Lootman wrote:
Gengulphus wrote:
Lootman wrote:Anyone know when the last world chess championship was between two Westerners? 1800's, perhaps?

I think you'll need to decide just how to decide who counts as a 'Westerner' before anyone has a hope of answering that question - there are some borderline cases, such as Alexander Alekhine, born in Russia but granted French citizenship in 1927 and thus French at the time of his world championship matches against the Dutch Max Euwe in 1935 and 1937. Or if Alekhine doesn't count, what about the Cuban José Raúl Capablanca, who contested the 1921 championship with the German Emanuel Lasker? (And is it relevant that that was long before the Cuban Revolution left Cuba only geographically 'Western', not politically so as well?)

And the 1948 championship was an interesting case: determined by a 5-player, quintuple-round-robin tournament rather than the usual 2-player match, and 2 of the 5 players were pretty unambiguously Westerners (Max Euwe and the American Samuel Reshevsky) - so that championship was between two Westerners (among others), but I suspect that answer isn't within the spirit of your question even though it's arguably within its letter.

Anyway, there's a list of the world championships and who they were between in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_W ... mpionships, with links to articles about the individual championships and players, allowing anyone to take the time to settle the question to their own satisfaction - if of course they want to take that much time. But settling it to anyone else's satisfaction is likely to be a more difficult job!

Good points. I'd discount Alekhine but agree with Uncle that Lasker against Capablanca counts, so 1921.

I was a pretty mean player in my youth, but have not played competitively for 35 years.


I was a pretty poor player in my youth, readily distracted, when our school team played a team from an all girls school the combination of playing a girl (I was at an all boys school) plus the tea and biscuits they provided was more than enough for me to lose my board; it was fortunate they did not give us yoghurt otherwise we all would have lost.

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Re: World Chess Championship 2018

#182441

Postby Alaric » November 23rd, 2018, 1:29 am

Lootman wrote:Anyone know when the last world chess championship was between two Westerners?


In the fairly recent past there was Gelfand (Israel but ex-Soviet Union) v Anand (India). For that matter, there was Carlsen (Norway) v Anand (India) twice.

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Re: World Chess Championship 2018

#182442

Postby Lootman » November 23rd, 2018, 1:30 am

Charlottesquare wrote:
Lootman wrote:I was a pretty mean player in my youth, but have not played competitively for 35 years.

I was a pretty poor player in my youth, readily distracted, when our school team played a team from an all girls school the combination of playing a girl (I was at an all boys school) plus the tea and biscuits they provided was more than enough for me to lose my board; it was fortunate they did not give us yoghurt otherwise we all would have lost.

Chess is one of those things where men dominate, the Polgar sisters notwithstanding. In all my competitive games I only ever played one woman. It was playing for Middlesex against another County - might have been Merseyside. Anyway I felt all cocky but soon found myself in a mess. I fought back and eventually got a draw. It turned out that she was a four times British Women's Champion.

Anyway, 10th game today was a draw after 56 moves. Pretty volatile game though. Loved how Caruana agreed the draw despite being a pawn up because, with all pawns being on one side of the board and neither king cut off by the remaining rooks, it was a draw. Most amateurs would have played on but, at that level, you have to show respect.

It's sudden death, squeaky bum time.

Alaric wrote:
Lootman wrote:Anyone know when the last world chess championship was between two Westerners?

In the fairly recent past there was Gelfand (Israel but ex-Soviet Union) v Anand (India). For that matter, there was Carlsen (Norway) v Anand (India) twice.

Two things about that:

1) Not sure India counts as the "West". Israel, maybe.

2) Wasn't that when the world chess championship was fragmented, rather like boxing was for the longest time?

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Re: World Chess Championship 2018

#182444

Postby Alaric » November 23rd, 2018, 1:56 am

Lootman wrote:2) Wasn't that when the world chess championship was fragmented, rather like boxing was for the longest time?


It was in 2012 after Kasparov retired and the title was unified.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Che ... nship_2012

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Re: World Chess Championship 2018

#182711

Postby Gengulphus » November 24th, 2018, 2:04 pm

Alaric wrote:
Lootman wrote:Anyone know when the last world chess championship was between two Westerners?

In the fairly recent past there was Gelfand (Israel but ex-Soviet Union) v Anand (India). For that matter, there was Carlsen (Norway) v Anand (India) twice.

But did Anand count as a 'Westerner'? The term can be thought of in (at least) three different senses, as being about the geographical location, political climate or degree of developedness of the country, and they give different answers about India...

Gengulphus

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Re: World Chess Championship 2018

#182731

Postby UncleEbenezer » November 24th, 2018, 4:29 pm

Gengulphus wrote:
Alaric wrote:
Lootman wrote:Anyone know when the last world chess championship was between two Westerners?

In the fairly recent past there was Gelfand (Israel but ex-Soviet Union) v Anand (India). For that matter, there was Carlsen (Norway) v Anand (India) twice.

But did Anand count as a 'Westerner'? The term can be thought of in (at least) three different senses, as being about the geographical location, political climate or degree of developedness of the country, and they give different answers about India...

Gengulphus

Israel is the Middle East. India is the until-recently-exotic east. Do either of those sound very western?

The political West is ephemera. Borders and alignments change regularly (hence my questionmark over the central-European Lasker). After all, there are east Asian countries that align pretty strongly with "western" politics and economics, but we don't call Japan or Korea western!

Methinks the original question was implicitly acknowledging the long dominance of Russian or Soviet players, and questioning how long it had been. The questioner has stated that that includes Russian-born expats with reference to Kasparov and Alekhine, so that should presumably extend to Gelfand no matter where he'd ended up. Taking that as the question, we seem to have Lasker/Capablanca as the last pre-Russian-era match and Anand/Carlsen as the first to break it. Nearly a century of at least one player in every championship - unless we're all missing something?

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Re: World Chess Championship 2018

#184140

Postby cinelli » December 1st, 2018, 12:32 pm

Magnus Carlsen won the tie breaker 3-0 to retain his world title. I can report that this news made it on to the BBC radio news, but more for the novelty value that the first twelve games had all been draws. The Guardian reported that Carlsen had received some criticism for accepting a draw in game 12 despite being in an apparently stronger position. Had he lost his nerve? When asked if he had a favourite player from history he quipped, “Probably myself like three or four years ago.”

I can remember when chess appeared in a televised BBC tournament. It is funny how tastes change. Personally I would be much more interested in chess on TV instead of competitions for baking cakes, eating caterpillars or dancing.

I have recently taken an interest in another board game, draughts. There are some tournament games on YouTube and the speed at which the top players move the pieces is astonishing. In one game I counted 60 moves in the first minute of play. As a feat of dexterity – to move the piece and hit the clock – never mind tactical play, this is remarkable. For example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KIm2oAp6js

Note that this is a variant of the game more familiar in Britain, played on a 10 by 10 board.

Cinelli

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Re: World Chess Championship 2018

#184170

Postby UncleEbenezer » December 1st, 2018, 3:34 pm

Surely chess on telly should be obsolete, when you can observe it online. In a forum where you can get commentary from however many grandmasters might also be watching, and where at other times you could play a game.

I don't do that myself with chess - haven't played since my student days - but I have been known to do it for Go.


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