So, how do you fill vacancies...

[Niksen]

The term "affirmative action" is in common use here.

Not here in the UK it isn't.

And as I noted above there are various backdoor ways of engaging in "positive" discrimination, as also indicated by the article cited upthread.

No, the article was deliberately misleading its readers by using the piece to make people believe that illegal discrimination was happening, when the piece was actually about the issue of those who are being snide and aggressive in alleging that someone was not the best candidate and they were only a diversity hire.

[Lootman]

The term "affirmative action" is in common use here.

Not here in the UK it isn't.

Sure it is, I hear it a lot, but substitute another phrase for it if you prefer. Doesn't change the facts.

And as I noted above there are various backdoor ways of engaging in "positive" discrimination, as also indicated by the article cited upthread.

No, the article was deliberately misleading its readers by using the piece to make people believe that illegal discrimination was happening

Again, you have no way of knowing whether it happens or not. A lot of people think there is a lot of racial discrimination going on regardless of what the law says this week. In fact there are lawyers who specialise in discrimination cases, which seems odd if it never happens as you claim.

[Niksen]

Not here in the UK it isn't.

Sure it is, I hear it a lot, but substitute another phrase for it if you prefer. Doesn't change the facts.

You hear it a lot? Personally I would choose better company who didn’t make up stuff about discrimination.

As for the facts, as before, the fact is that positive discrimination is illegal.

No, the article was deliberately misleading its readers by using the piece to make people believe that illegal discrimination was happening

Again, you have no way of knowing whether it happens or not. A lot of people think there is a lot of racial discrimination going on regardless of what the law says this week. In fact there are lawyers who specialise in discrimination cases, which seems odd if it never happens as you claim.

Are you still trying to defend the snide and aggressive discriminatory statements? Odd, very odd.

“The law says this week” for goodness sake the law on employment discrimination hasn’t changed for years, so I am not sure why you have difficulty knowing what it is - although from your previous comments indicate you do have difficulty.

[Lootman]

Again, you have no way of knowing whether it happens or not. A lot of people think there is a lot of racial discrimination going on regardless of what the law says this week. In fact there are lawyers who specialise in discrimination cases, which seems odd if it never happens as you claim.

the law on employment discrimination hasn’t changed for years

The topic is not the law, as I keep telling you. Nor is it whichever newspaper is annoying you the most this week.

But on behalf of TLF, and the nation itself, I would like to thank you for formally announcing that racial discrimination no longer happens in the UK. Let the people rejoice and let the church bells ring - the scourge of racism has been banished completely. And all because you say so. Such a relief.

[Niksen]

the law on employment discrimination hasn’t changed for years

The topic is not the law, as I keep telling you.

It is you that keeps raising the law - and keeps getting it wrong!

But on behalf of TLF, and the nation itself, I would like to thank you for formally announcing that racial discrimination no longer happens in the UK. Let the people rejoice and let the church bells ring - the scourge of racism has been banished completely. And all because you say so. Such a relief.

Is it that hard for you to understand the difference between employment discrimination legislation and the discrimination that does occur when people make snide and aggressive discriminatory comments claiming someone wasn’t the best person for the job?

But then since you have shown you have difficulty understanding what the law is…

[Lootman]

But on behalf of TLF, and the nation itself, I would like to thank you for formally announcing that racial discrimination no longer happens in the UK. Let the people rejoice and let the church bells ring - the scourge of racism has been banished completely. And all because you say so. Such a relief.

Is it that hard for you to understand the difference between employment discrimination legislation and the discrimination that does occur when people make snide and aggressive discriminatory comments claiming someone wasn’t the best person for the job?

LOL, so in other words there is discrimination but never against whites?

How convenient.

[Niksen]

LOL, so in other words there is discrimination but never against whites?

Not quite sure how you reached that conclusion from anything that has been said, but if that was your ‘go to’ thought

[Lootman]

LOL, so in other words there is discrimination but never against whites?

Not quite sure how you reached that conclusion from anything that has been said, but if that was your ‘go to’ thought

I can go slower for you if you like.

You claim that discrimination against whites never happens. But a white person pointing out that it does happen is not only "wrong" but is also being "racist" and "aggressive". So only whites discriminate, on your private fantasy planet anyway.

That is the classic PC argument that goes "anyone who disagrees with me is a racist". Or my other favourite logic-challenged woke'ism: "Only white people can be racist".

[Niksen]

Not quite sure how you reached that conclusion from anything that has been said, but if that was your ‘go to’ thought

I can go slower for you if you like.

You claim that discrimination against whites never happens.

Now you are just imagining things, as nobody said anything of the sort.

But a white person pointing out that it does happen is not only "wrong" but is also being "racist" and "aggressive". So only whites discriminate, on your private fantasy planet anyway.

Again you seem to be hearing things that nobody said.

That is the classic PC argument that goes "anyone who disagrees with me is a racist". Or my other favourite logic-challenged woke'ism: "Only white people can be racist".

Are you feeling alright?

[Lootman]

I can go slower for you if you like. You claim that discrimination against whites never happens.

Now you are just imagining things, as nobody said anything of the sort.

OK, so you now agree that there is discrimination that favours non-whites?

This is progress.

[Niksen]

Now you are just imagining things, as nobody said anything of the sort.

OK, so you now agree that there is discrimination that favours non-whites?

This is progress.

Again your imagination is getting the better of you.

Perhaps having a lay down would help you get a grip on reality.

[the0ni0nking]

i.e the job was given to the best person, but some will insinuate and gossip that it wasn’t.

I'm confused - and this is an issue why?

Let's say I get the job because my CV/qualifications/performance at interview mean that those recruiting me think I'm the best for the job.

I couldn't care less about water cooler chat. If those having the water cooler chat are bitter about my appointment, the issue is with them; not me.

[Niksen]

i.e the job was given to the best person, but some will insinuate and gossip that it wasn’t.

I'm confused - and this is an issue why?

Let's say I get the job because my CV/qualifications/performance at interview mean that those recruiting me think I'm the best for the job.

I couldn't care less about water cooler chat. If those having the water cooler chat are bitter about my appointment, the issue is with them; not me.

The issue is that the comments are not water cooler chat made because someone believes they are better qualified for the post.

The comments are made with the accusation that the other person only got the post because of their race/sex/sexuality/disability/etc.

Do you want to work somewhere such discriminatory comments are just brushed under the carpet?

[Lootman]

OK, so you now agree that there is discrimination that favours non-whites? This is progress.

Again your imagination is getting the better of you.

You keep changing your mind. So which it is? Does such discrimination exist or does it not?

i.e the job was given to the best person, but some will insinuate and gossip that it wasn’t.

I'm confused - and this is an issue why? Let's say I get the job because my CV/qualifications/performance at interview mean that those recruiting me think I'm the best for the job. I couldn't care less about water cooler chat. If those having the water cooler chat are bitter about my appointment, the issue is with them; not me.

Niksen seems to be obsessed with a fictional problem, for sure.

On the one hand he clams (without providing any evidence) that diversity hiring never happens. But then he claims that it leads to problems.

[the0ni0nking]

Do you want to work somewhere such discriminatory comments are just brushed under the carpet?

If someone says something discriminatory in the work place I'd expect them to be picked up on it. As I suspect would everyone.

I'm not sure what that has to do with anything else in this thread.

[kempiejon]

Do you want to work somewhere such discriminatory comments are just brushed under the carpet?

If someone says something discriminatory in the work place I'd expect them to be picked up on it. As I suspect would everyone.

I'm not sure what that has to do with anything else in this thread.

Well the last place I worked several members of staff were warned on several occasional about discriminatory comments and attitudes. Being picked up on it didn't stop it and those were just the people who were caught, I expect there could have been other offenders and other occasions. It didn't stop discrimination and bullying. I'm not sure how that protects, for example, the trans computer programmer from an allegation that their skills were not as important in getting the job as their identity.

[the0ni0nking]

I'm not sure how that protects, for example, the trans computer programmer from an allegation that their skills were not as important in getting the job as their identity.

Their performance at work does that?

Gender, race etc etc - I don't care if you're good at your job.

[kempiejon]

You'd hope? It's not always the case.

[Lootman]

If someone says something discriminatory in the work place I'd expect them to be picked up on it. As I suspect would everyone. I'm not sure what that has to do with anything else in this thread.

Well the last place I worked several members of staff were warned on several occasional about discriminatory comments and attitudes. Being picked up on it didn't stop it and those were just the people who were caught, I expect there could have been other offenders and other occasions. It didn't stop discrimination and bullying. I'm not sure how that protects, for example, the trans computer programmer from an allegation that their skills were not as important in getting the job as their identity.

Things have certainly changed a lot in the last 40 years. In the mid-1980s in the City if you were not a straight white male then you probably had a derogatory nickname, and were supposed to suck it up.

It is easy to argue that things are fairer now. But the question as always is this: How will we know when the political correctness pendulum has swung too far in the other direction?

[the0ni0nking]

You'd hope? It's not always the case.

Agreed - but the question then is how to resolve that. In those scenarios, legislation isn't going to work as those prejudices are likely both unwritten and unprovable against the individual who has the irrational view.