Remove ads

Introducing the LemonFools Personal Finance Calculators

Musk endeavours

The Big Picture Place
odysseus2000
Lemon Slice
Posts: 483
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 11:33 pm
Has thanked: 89 times
Been thanked: 69 times

Re: Musk endeavours

#145328

Postby odysseus2000 » June 12th, 2018, 11:10 pm

Tesla cuts workforce, not production staff, by 9%

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DfgnI0GVQAASPJZ.jpg

Regards,

BobbyD
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1629
Joined: January 22nd, 2017, 2:29 pm
Has thanked: 46 times
Been thanked: 84 times

Re: Musk endeavours

#145348

Postby BobbyD » June 13th, 2018, 5:27 am

odysseus2000 wrote:Yes, but for comparison sake, the article should also note how many folk have been killed & injured by human only controlled cars over the same period.

Regards,


That's actually missing the point somewhat. Even if the level 2 advanced cruise control systems in the likes of the Tesla were perfectly safe if they were used properly, the way in which they are being marketed is directly contributing to their misuse, and an associated increase in the risk to the life and well being of the drivers and those on the road around them. When something is sold as an autopilot why wouldn't you watch a DVD or hop in to the passenger seat? This isn't about the technology, it's about the irresponsible way in which the technology is advertised to consumers by some car companies, tragedies resulting from which are, as I pointed out some way back in this thread, probably one of the biggest risks to the widespread adoption of genuine level 5 autonomous vehicles.

BobbyD
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1629
Joined: January 22nd, 2017, 2:29 pm
Has thanked: 46 times
Been thanked: 84 times

Re: Musk endeavours

#145350

Postby BobbyD » June 13th, 2018, 5:44 am

Full c&pable text of the email (via Bloomberg): https://assets.bwbx.io/documents/users/ ... _33qujk/v0

odysseus2000 wrote:Given that Tesla has never made an annual profit in the almost 15 years since we have existed,
profit is obviously not what motivates us. What drives us is our mission to accelerate the
world’s transition to sustainable, clean energy, but we will never achieve that mission unless we
eventually demonstrate that we can be sustainably profitable. That is a valid and fair criticism
of Tesla’s history to date.


- https://assets.bwbx.io/documents/users/ ... _33qujk/v0

I feel vaguely validated...

They are also ending solar sales through Home Depot 4 months after the roll out began:

Just four months ago, Tesla Inc. began a major expansion of its solar division at Home Depot Inc., rolling out Tesla-branded selling spaces at 800 of the retailer’s locations.


- https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... olar-sales

In addition to this company-wide restructuring, we've decided not to renew our residential
sales agreement with Home Depot in order to focus our efforts on selling solar power in Tesla
stores and online. The majority of Tesla employees working at Home Depot will be offered the
opportunity to move over to Tesla retail locations.


- https://assets.bwbx.io/documents/users/ ... _33qujk/v0

This bit is a little weird though:

To those remaining, I would like to thank you in advance for
the difficult job that remains ahead. We are a small company in one of the toughest and most
competitive industries on Earth, where just staying alive, let alone growing, is a form of victory
(Tesla and Ford remain the only American car companies who haven’t gone bankrupt). Yet,
despite our tiny size


- https://assets.bwbx.io/documents/users/ ... _33qujk/v0

This morning via Bloomberg

Tesla Market Cap: 55.67Bn

Ford Market Cap: 47.68Bn

A tiny company...

Staff cuts, sudden focus on profitability and winding up recent expansions before they've had a chance to go anywhere, is Elon finally beginning to feel the burn?

odysseus2000
Lemon Slice
Posts: 483
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 11:33 pm
Has thanked: 89 times
Been thanked: 69 times

Re: Musk endeavours

#145391

Postby odysseus2000 » June 13th, 2018, 9:23 am

Ford has over 200,000 employees, Tesla has about 41,000, so in terms of the company, not the valuation, Tesla is much smaller than Ford.

My guess is that Wall Street will like this news.

It is an unhappy situation for the 4000 ish who are leaving, but they are entering one of the best labour markets in US history.

Moving all solar back inside Tesla is typical Musk, presumably sales from Home Depot were not enough to justify the margin impact of having Home Depot overheads.

Regards,

odysseus2000
Lemon Slice
Posts: 483
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 11:33 pm
Has thanked: 89 times
Been thanked: 69 times

Re: Musk endeavours

#145398

Postby odysseus2000 » June 13th, 2018, 9:53 am

Shorts in Tesla having a poor June:

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-sh ... 44935.html

Regards,

PeterGray
Lemon Slice
Posts: 327
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 11:18 am
Has thanked: 63 times
Been thanked: 69 times

Re: Musk endeavours

#145407

Postby PeterGray » June 13th, 2018, 10:56 am

Given that Tesla has never made an annual profit in the almost 15 years since we have existed,
profit is obviously not what motivates us. What drives us is our mission to ....


Surprising how many company ceos could say that - though I doubt many could keep a straight face doing it!

Meatyfool
2 Lemon pips
Posts: 202
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 11:43 am
Been thanked: 23 times

Re: Musk endeavours

#145416

Postby Meatyfool » June 13th, 2018, 11:23 am

PeterGray wrote:Surprising how many company ceos could say that - though I doubt many could keep a straight face doing it!


It seems increasingly obvious to me that Musk has a real beef with financiers. He just seems to go out of his way to rub them up.

How many other CEOs would love to finance their business by getting customers to make large deposits years in advance of their purchase? Selling useless tat for large amounts of money as another cash line!

The redundancies could simply be face value - Tesla has burned a lot of cash and so needs to reign in before they run out. But just perhaps, maybe they need to start building bridges again with those financiers, and slashing jobs is always their first port of call for belt tightening.

Of course, he could just announce pre-orders for the Model Y but that runs the risk of cannibalising the pre-orders for the Model S - there is a "syndrome" for that - in the early 80s a computer manufacturer trailed their next product and all those who would have bought their current model held back for the next one and bankrupt the company!

Meatyfool..

BobbyD
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1629
Joined: January 22nd, 2017, 2:29 pm
Has thanked: 46 times
Been thanked: 84 times

Re: Musk endeavours

#145425

Postby BobbyD » June 13th, 2018, 12:00 pm

odysseus2000 wrote:Ford has over 200,000 employees, Tesla has about 41,000, so in terms of the company, not the valuation, Tesla is much smaller than Ford.


I wasn't aware that in American tiny meant 'smaller than Ford'...

Sounds like somebody trying to reawaken the underdog spirit in the remaining workforce of a multi-billion dollar company...

tjh290633
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1882
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 11:20 am
Has thanked: 97 times
Been thanked: 527 times

Re: Musk endeavours

#145433

Postby tjh290633 » June 13th, 2018, 1:18 pm

Meatyfool wrote:
PeterGray wrote:Surprising how many company ceos could say that - though I doubt many could keep a straight face doing it!


It seems increasingly obvious to me that Musk has a real beef with financiers. He just seems to go out of his way to rub them up.

How many other CEOs would love to finance their business by getting customers to make large deposits years in advance of their purchase? Selling useless tat for large amounts of money as another cash line!

The redundancies could simply be face value - Tesla has burned a lot of cash and so needs to reign in before they run out. But just perhaps, maybe they need to start building bridges again with those financiers, and slashing jobs is always their first port of call for belt tightening.

Of course, he could just announce pre-orders for the Model Y but that runs the risk of cannibalising the pre-orders for the Model S - there is a "syndrome" for that - in the early 80s a computer manufacturer trailed their next product and all those who would have bought their current model held back for the next one and bankrupt the company!

Meatyfool..

In 1959, Pittsburgh Plate Glass announced that they had just bought a Pilkington twin plate grinding line. The next day, Pilkington announced the Float Glass Process. PPG changed their decision to buy a float glass licence.

Pilkington did well to keep their process under wraps for so long. Musk's problem could be that he is advancing too quickly and announcing his advances too soon.

TJH

ReformedCharacter
Lemon Slice
Posts: 431
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 11:12 am
Has thanked: 77 times
Been thanked: 67 times

Re: Musk endeavours

#145441

Postby ReformedCharacter » June 13th, 2018, 1:46 pm

tjh290633 wrote:In 1959, Pittsburgh Plate Glass announced that they had just bought a Pilkington twin plate grinding line. The next day, Pilkington announced the Float Glass Process. PPG changed their decision to buy a float glass licence.

Pilkington did well to keep their process under wraps for so long. Musk's problem could be that he is advancing too quickly and announcing his advances too soon.

TJH

Apologies for going off-topic. The float glass process was apparently inspired by one of the Pilkingtons whilst finishing the washing-up. A case of lateral thinking, perhaps. If you have ever pulled a cloth from a sink or bowl of water and noticed that it can 'float' across the top of the water if pulled in a certain way you will get the idea. It's interesting the way the mind works...

RC

odysseus2000
Lemon Slice
Posts: 483
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 11:33 pm
Has thanked: 89 times
Been thanked: 69 times

Re: Musk endeavours

#145514

Postby odysseus2000 » June 13th, 2018, 9:35 pm

Musk buys $25 million Tesla shares:


https://www.marketwatch.com/story/elon- ... 2018-06-13

Regards,

BobbyD
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1629
Joined: January 22nd, 2017, 2:29 pm
Has thanked: 46 times
Been thanked: 84 times

Re: Musk endeavours

#145543

Postby BobbyD » June 14th, 2018, 9:07 am

odysseus2000 wrote:Musk buys $25 million Tesla shares:


https://www.marketwatch.com/story/elon- ... 2018-06-13

Regards,


Using the highly accurate methodology of googling 'elon musk net worth' to determine that he is worth around $20 billion, that would equate to 0.125% of his personal wealth, which isn't really much of a statement.

odysseus2000
Lemon Slice
Posts: 483
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 11:33 pm
Has thanked: 89 times
Been thanked: 69 times

Re: Musk endeavours

#145577

Postby odysseus2000 » June 14th, 2018, 11:10 am

Yes, if Musk is worth $20b then $25m isn't that large a %.

But how much of the putative $20b is money he can access?

Much of that wealth is based on his stake in SpaceX and consequently could fluctuate wildly.

How much cash does he have? Couldn't find an answer to that. He was apparently broke and had to be given money by friends to pay his daily bills not so many years ago, but now he has 4 multi-million $ US mansions.

Where has all this cash come from? Not as far as I can tell from his salary at Tesla, he doesn't take anything above the minimum wage, nor from sales of Tesla stock which he apparently does not do, but somewhere in his empire there seems to be a source of the folding stuff, but how much and from what sources. Its only with that kind of information, which I don't have, that one can judge whether $25 million cash is a lot or not.

Regards,

odysseus2000
Lemon Slice
Posts: 483
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 11:33 pm
Has thanked: 89 times
Been thanked: 69 times

Re: Musk endeavours

#145821

Postby odysseus2000 » June 15th, 2018, 12:25 pm

Solar is now the biggest source of new US power:

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/arti ... ssion=true

Tariffs may hurt the supply of Chinese panels making me wonder if large US based fabrication could be coming, something like the giga factory for solar, perhaps not just base panels, but the disguised roofing panels that Musk has promoted.

Regards,

BobbyD
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1629
Joined: January 22nd, 2017, 2:29 pm
Has thanked: 46 times
Been thanked: 84 times

Re: Musk endeavours

#145887

Postby BobbyD » June 15th, 2018, 3:46 pm

odysseus2000 wrote:Tariffs may hurt the supply of Chinese panels making me wonder if large US based fabrication could be coming, something like the giga factory for solar, perhaps not just base panels, but the disguised roofing panels that Musk has promoted.


Would you really invest hundreds of millions of dollars on the expectation that Trump is going to be consistent for the rest of his term, and that whoever serves the next 4 years will also continue the policy?

odysseus2000
Lemon Slice
Posts: 483
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 11:33 pm
Has thanked: 89 times
Been thanked: 69 times

Re: Musk endeavours

#145902

Postby odysseus2000 » June 15th, 2018, 4:30 pm

BobbyD
Would you really invest hundreds of millions of dollars on the expectation that Trump is going to be consistent for the rest of his term, and that whoever serves the next 4 years will also continue the policy?


No, but as solar is now the new energy of choice, investing in the capability to feed that demand from an internal factory free from what ever tariffs/politicians etc that come along is something I would think very positively about doing.

The big question would be can I make such a factory and compete with lower labour costs elsewhere, i.e. can I use a lot of robots to do the work.

Regards,

dspp
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2029
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 10:53 am
Has thanked: 1030 times
Been thanked: 298 times

Re: Musk endeavours

#145914

Postby dspp » June 15th, 2018, 5:00 pm

The Chinese factories already use a very large amount of automation. Putting a factory in the US is just making it a hostage, and a higher cost producer from day1. Why do it ?
regards, dspp

odysseus2000
Lemon Slice
Posts: 483
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 11:33 pm
Has thanked: 89 times
Been thanked: 69 times

Re: Musk endeavours

#145958

Postby odysseus2000 » June 15th, 2018, 7:53 pm

The Chinese factories already use a very large amount of automation. Putting a factory in the US is just making it a hostage, and a higher cost producer from day1. Why do it ?
regards, dspp


This is an argument I see a lot.

The problem I have with it is: How big a difference to a highly automated factory do labour costs make and what does one save on time and transport?

If you have a large scale US producer you make yourself independent of supply disruption, you likely pick up gold stars from the politicians for employing Americans in terms of grants, favourable tax treatment etc.

Additionally if the solar market is going towards roof tiles you can more easily make to order than having to deal with long lead times from imports.

I have no idea if Musk is thinking along these lines, but based on what he has done it seems potentially plausible.

Regards,

BobbyD
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1629
Joined: January 22nd, 2017, 2:29 pm
Has thanked: 46 times
Been thanked: 84 times

Re: Musk endeavours

#145994

Postby BobbyD » June 15th, 2018, 9:24 pm

odysseus2000 wrote:No, but as solar is now the new energy of choice


The energy of choice of the Trumpettes is coal, as dirty as you can make it.

odysseus2000
Lemon Slice
Posts: 483
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 11:33 pm
Has thanked: 89 times
Been thanked: 69 times

Re: Musk endeavours

#146011

Postby odysseus2000 » June 15th, 2018, 10:33 pm

BobbyD
The energy of choice of the Trumpettes is coal, as dirty as you can make it.


The political rhetoric of Trump is for coal, the reality is solar.

In investment one has to be able to tell the difference between what a politician says to get elected & what they do, often very different irrespective of politician or party or nation.

Regards,


Return to “Macro and Global Topics”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests