Do you think Trumptweetitis is contagious?
It certainly seems to be.
Slagging off someone who had the temerity to point out what was obvious to many, that his rigid "sub" had no chance of working, and implicitly that he was just getting in the way (I suspect true), and then apparently accusing them of being a "pedo", on the basis, solely as far as I can see of the fact that the guy spends half the year in Thailand, seems to suggest he may even have it worse than Trump!
Adding to this has been the tweet storm over the rescue of the Thai boys, a story that has become so wild that it makes no sense to me and this has likely been a lesson to Musk about his tweeting and/or conspiratorial activity to trash him.
Where exactly do you see "conspiratorial activity to trash him" in all of this, Ody?
Musk has made a complete prat of himself, both by proposing a solution for a problem he didn't understand and then wildly abusing someone who responded as you might when involved in trying to save 15 lives and a publicity seeker sticks their nose in.
I've always been doubtful of Musk and his enterprises, but this, plus his recent trivialisation of ripping off someone else's intellectual property makes them completely uninvestable to me. That doesn't mean that he may not end up producing useful things, or that investors may make money, but the risk of him blowing it all up one way or another is just too great for me.
Peter
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Musk endeavours
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odysseus2000
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Re: Musk endeavours
Here is what I don’t get about the whole Thai operation, whether it has been a conspiracy or just stupidity I know not, but it doesn’t seem right to me due to various factors including these:
Someone asks Musk for advice. Some discussion then follows between the folk in Thailand and Musk’s team and he has an employee over there who goes to get some local information.
Based on what Musk’s team are told they build a single person submarine and deliver it.
Then it emerges that the passageway to the trapped boys is so tight that a diver can’t get through with his tanks on, suggesting the submarine idea is a non-starter. So who told the Musk team the rescue dimensions and encouraged them to build the sub? Or did Musk’s team not take in any local knowledge and just build something that worked in a swimming pool and was all about PR. Possible but the odds of this back firing were so high as to make it the work on an idiot. Yet Musk has put rockets into orbits, made the first mass market electric car so the odds on him being an idiot seem low. What would he have to gain from making something that was obviously useless.
Then thank God we have the rescue and the boys are brought out safely and here we have another issue because there is no video of the boys, the media are told to clear off, there have been as far as I know no interviews with the boys or with the coach. Also no video of the rescue which all seems kind of strange in this media era.
Was the rescue underwater or had enough water been pumped out that the boys all walked out. There are conflcting claims on this.
Then we have one diver being interviewed and aggressively putting Musk & the submarine idea down. Why did he bother, they had the kudos of the rescue, the likelihood of honours, awards etc and yet the guy focuses on Musk?
All of this suggests that either Musk and his team are a PR seeking entity of fools, anything to make them look good, except what they did if the other data is right makes them look bad or Musk and his team have been set up.
It is clear that there is an entire industry setup to support bear raids, from the activities of various hedge funds such as Citron and individual hedge fund managers to what one might call dirty tactics of deliberately bad mouthing business after loading up short as was discussed in the earlier post of short selling tactics.
What ever the reality in this wonderful rescue made sordid by the subsequent name calling and such it has correlated with a fall in the price of Tesla stock. Musk has made several previous shareholder unfriendly comments and one can just say this is yet more bad judgement, but it has a feeling of something being not right to me. Of course I could be completely wrong. In the by and by perhaps other information will come out, but for now it sits in my mind as not making any sense.
Regards
Someone asks Musk for advice. Some discussion then follows between the folk in Thailand and Musk’s team and he has an employee over there who goes to get some local information.
Based on what Musk’s team are told they build a single person submarine and deliver it.
Then it emerges that the passageway to the trapped boys is so tight that a diver can’t get through with his tanks on, suggesting the submarine idea is a non-starter. So who told the Musk team the rescue dimensions and encouraged them to build the sub? Or did Musk’s team not take in any local knowledge and just build something that worked in a swimming pool and was all about PR. Possible but the odds of this back firing were so high as to make it the work on an idiot. Yet Musk has put rockets into orbits, made the first mass market electric car so the odds on him being an idiot seem low. What would he have to gain from making something that was obviously useless.
Then thank God we have the rescue and the boys are brought out safely and here we have another issue because there is no video of the boys, the media are told to clear off, there have been as far as I know no interviews with the boys or with the coach. Also no video of the rescue which all seems kind of strange in this media era.
Was the rescue underwater or had enough water been pumped out that the boys all walked out. There are conflcting claims on this.
Then we have one diver being interviewed and aggressively putting Musk & the submarine idea down. Why did he bother, they had the kudos of the rescue, the likelihood of honours, awards etc and yet the guy focuses on Musk?
All of this suggests that either Musk and his team are a PR seeking entity of fools, anything to make them look good, except what they did if the other data is right makes them look bad or Musk and his team have been set up.
It is clear that there is an entire industry setup to support bear raids, from the activities of various hedge funds such as Citron and individual hedge fund managers to what one might call dirty tactics of deliberately bad mouthing business after loading up short as was discussed in the earlier post of short selling tactics.
What ever the reality in this wonderful rescue made sordid by the subsequent name calling and such it has correlated with a fall in the price of Tesla stock. Musk has made several previous shareholder unfriendly comments and one can just say this is yet more bad judgement, but it has a feeling of something being not right to me. Of course I could be completely wrong. In the by and by perhaps other information will come out, but for now it sits in my mind as not making any sense.
Regards
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Itsallaguess
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Re: Musk endeavours
odysseus2000 wrote:
It is clear that there is an entire industry set-up to support bear raids, from the activities of various hedge funds such as Citron and individual hedge fund managers to what one might call dirty tactics of deliberately bad mouthing business after loading up short as was discussed in the earlier post of short selling tactics.
What ever the reality in this wonderful rescue made sordid by the subsequent name calling and such it has correlated with a fall in the price of Tesla stock.
Musk has made several previous shareholder unfriendly comments and one can just say this is yet more bad judgement, but it has a feeling of something being not right to me. Of course I could be completely wrong. In the by and by perhaps other information will come out, but for now it sits in my mind as not making any sense.
Here's the thing though Ody -
1. You're right, and it's all market-manipulation. Result = You're likely to lose money being on the wrong side of any such manipulation.
2. You're wrong, and he's an overgrown child with itchy fingers, a terrible temper, a brazillion social-media followers, and an awful lot of money. Result = You're likely to lose money being on the wrong side of any of his severe judgemental errors.
I think you're wrong to head down the 'there's something fishy going on here' road, and in all honesty to hear you say it with such conviction makes me wonder if you've simply fallen in love with this investment, and we all know it rarely ends well when that happens...
Cheers,
Itsallaguess
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BobbyD
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Re: Musk endeavours
Itsallaguess wrote:I think you're wrong to head down the 'there's something fishy going on here' road, and in all honesty to hear you say it with such conviction makes me wonder if you've simply fallen in love with this investment, and we all know it rarely ends well when that happens...
For better or worse I didn't think there was much doubt that Oddy is a true believer, not just in Tesla but in the Henry Ford of the 21st Century.
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odysseus2000
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Re: Musk endeavours
Well I am enjoying the current uptake of posts on the Macro board here at the Lemon, nice that more folk are coming here and I like that so many loathe Tesla.
Let us go back to some basics.
What is a business? Branson would say it is something that makes a difference in a person’s life. I would say it is something that transfers money from the customers pocket to the owners, Branson’s definition is just a good way to do the prime objective.
Tesla is just one of many positions I actively monitor and trade. So far I have made more this year than in the whole of last year and my account is near its highs. These are the things I care about. Why? See the paragraph above.
Now many folk like to have the idea that what they do is not about taking money from someones pocket, it is about charity, or engineering, or architecture, or safety, or science or medicine… Folk in these professions will tell you, and they believe it, that they are totally focused on what ever they have got their qualifications in and need supporting to do their work. Usually I manage to keep a straight face, but what they are telling me is that they want as long as they see fit to do what ever they do and they want paying for their time. Often they have regulations to support their comments and often they do good work, other times like the cladding on the Grenfell Tower they don’t. Folk in these professions are very intelligent and have their own office, their own desk and some staff and they have reached the zenith of their careers and all in all they live comfortable lives but make very little compared to entrepreneurs, equity traders… and if they find out how much money these guys make they can get quite upset and argue that what they do takes more learning, more training etc. The obvious retort is then why didn’t they do something more lucrative? Here we come to a problem because they are all trained to think logically, but to make a lot of money you need to be able to think emotionally as well and this is a special skill set that few posses. Additionally most of them have no historical perspective, they couldn’t stand the subject and dropped it as soon as possible and that applies to many business school graduates who ought to be taught better but are not, instead they are taught to focus on complication, exactly the opposite of what they should be taught. Read and listen to Buffett for lots on this.
Now we come to how things happen. If you read books on innovation/technolgy/prosperity you will often find they are written to make sense, as logical progressions without much focus on what really happened, the relentless up and downs of the business cycle, the being in the right place at the right time etc are skipped over and the time axis is greatly compressed.
Now how does all of this play out in practice. Well folk will tell you that an investment in Tesla will murder you, you will be on the wrong side if its market manipulation, the wrong side if Musk is an idiot etc. One got very similar comments on Amazon, Apple, Netflix, Googl, ebay, payPal,… Meanwhile the same folk will tell you the only way to make money in the stock market is long term buy and hold which is counter to the idea that all the high growth stuff must fail and in practice enough of it goes up to make some serious dosh and doesn’t fail.
I like stuff that goes up, if one wants to characterise this as love then that is up to you, to me it is an interest in stuff that can go up a lot and by being part of it so can my account and although I like it less this also includes UK property.
Tesla may crash and burn and the majority of the posters on this board would probably feel justified in their views if it does. I suspect very few have backed their views by being short, but a lot of folk have and that is the fuel I like to see. Any good news and the price goes up as shorts have to cover. However, it may not and I might lose. You pays your money and makes your choice and in my case you actively and relentlessly watch, evaluate news, discuss and trade.
Regards,
Let us go back to some basics.
What is a business? Branson would say it is something that makes a difference in a person’s life. I would say it is something that transfers money from the customers pocket to the owners, Branson’s definition is just a good way to do the prime objective.
Tesla is just one of many positions I actively monitor and trade. So far I have made more this year than in the whole of last year and my account is near its highs. These are the things I care about. Why? See the paragraph above.
Now many folk like to have the idea that what they do is not about taking money from someones pocket, it is about charity, or engineering, or architecture, or safety, or science or medicine… Folk in these professions will tell you, and they believe it, that they are totally focused on what ever they have got their qualifications in and need supporting to do their work. Usually I manage to keep a straight face, but what they are telling me is that they want as long as they see fit to do what ever they do and they want paying for their time. Often they have regulations to support their comments and often they do good work, other times like the cladding on the Grenfell Tower they don’t. Folk in these professions are very intelligent and have their own office, their own desk and some staff and they have reached the zenith of their careers and all in all they live comfortable lives but make very little compared to entrepreneurs, equity traders… and if they find out how much money these guys make they can get quite upset and argue that what they do takes more learning, more training etc. The obvious retort is then why didn’t they do something more lucrative? Here we come to a problem because they are all trained to think logically, but to make a lot of money you need to be able to think emotionally as well and this is a special skill set that few posses. Additionally most of them have no historical perspective, they couldn’t stand the subject and dropped it as soon as possible and that applies to many business school graduates who ought to be taught better but are not, instead they are taught to focus on complication, exactly the opposite of what they should be taught. Read and listen to Buffett for lots on this.
Now we come to how things happen. If you read books on innovation/technolgy/prosperity you will often find they are written to make sense, as logical progressions without much focus on what really happened, the relentless up and downs of the business cycle, the being in the right place at the right time etc are skipped over and the time axis is greatly compressed.
Now how does all of this play out in practice. Well folk will tell you that an investment in Tesla will murder you, you will be on the wrong side if its market manipulation, the wrong side if Musk is an idiot etc. One got very similar comments on Amazon, Apple, Netflix, Googl, ebay, payPal,… Meanwhile the same folk will tell you the only way to make money in the stock market is long term buy and hold which is counter to the idea that all the high growth stuff must fail and in practice enough of it goes up to make some serious dosh and doesn’t fail.
I like stuff that goes up, if one wants to characterise this as love then that is up to you, to me it is an interest in stuff that can go up a lot and by being part of it so can my account and although I like it less this also includes UK property.
Tesla may crash and burn and the majority of the posters on this board would probably feel justified in their views if it does. I suspect very few have backed their views by being short, but a lot of folk have and that is the fuel I like to see. Any good news and the price goes up as shorts have to cover. However, it may not and I might lose. You pays your money and makes your choice and in my case you actively and relentlessly watch, evaluate news, discuss and trade.
Regards,
-
tjh290633
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Re: Musk endeavours
Something that may have passed me by, is whether anyone from the Thai side invited comments from Musk, or did he just barge in willy-nilly?
TJH
TJH
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odysseus2000
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Re: Musk endeavours
Something that may have passed me by, is whether anyone from the Thai side invited comments from Musk, or did he just barge in willy-nilly?
TJH
According to Musk he was invited in, had employees on the ground and was well received when he brought his submarine.
Others say he wasn't invited in, was asked to leave as soon as he arrived in Thailand and it was all just a PR stunt.
No idea myself, the whole business just smells fishy to me.
Regards
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PeterGray
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Re: Musk endeavours
Was the rescue underwater or had enough water been pumped out that the boys all walked out. There are conflcting claims on this.
I don't know who's been making conflicting claims on this. Everything I see is crystal clear - they reduced water levels quite a bit, but there were still several submerged sumps that they had to dive through. Perfectly clear.
According to Musk he was invited in, had employees on the ground and was well received when he brought his submarine.
Well we know for sure he wasn't "well received" - though I'm sure the rescue crews were very polite (something Musk could perhaps learn from?). But if the only source of him being invited is himself, I'd be very sceptical.
No idea myself, the whole business just smells fishy to me.
Well we can agree on that, but I think the source of the fishy smell is pretty clear!
Peter
I don't know who's been making conflicting claims on this. Everything I see is crystal clear - they reduced water levels quite a bit, but there were still several submerged sumps that they had to dive through. Perfectly clear.
According to Musk he was invited in, had employees on the ground and was well received when he brought his submarine.
Well we know for sure he wasn't "well received" - though I'm sure the rescue crews were very polite (something Musk could perhaps learn from?). But if the only source of him being invited is himself, I'd be very sceptical.
No idea myself, the whole business just smells fishy to me.
Well we can agree on that, but I think the source of the fishy smell is pretty clear!
Peter
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Itsallaguess
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Re: Musk endeavours
odysseus2000 wrote:
Let us go back to some basics.
It seems that this is exactly what some Tesla investors are asking Musk to do....
Tesla investors have demanded an apology from CEO Elon Musk after he lashed out at a British cave diver who rescued children in Thailand.
Musk’s posts on Twitter sparked backlash from shareholders and Silicon Valley analysts, who called his behavior immature and an impediment to the car company’s success.
Musk and Tesla have gone silent since he deleted the tweets, ignoring repeated requests for comment since Sunday. Some shareholders, however, are speaking up.
James Anderson, a partner at Baillie Gifford, Tesla’s fourth-largest shareholder, told the Guardian in an email on Tuesday that the company saw “the end of carbon as essential” but, was “frustrated that the real steps towards this are being overshadowed and undermined by this saga”.
Anderson said he agreed with some of Musk’s past remarks calling out critical analysts, “but this is different. We are in contact with the company and we are hopeful that it is being taken with due seriousness.” He said he would like to see “peace, quiet and execution” at the electric car company.
Zhao also said that this scandal offered further evidence that the company needed an independent chair: “He is not mature enough.”
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... diver-pedo
I really do hope that Musk responds to his recent criticism in a positive way. His credibility as a CEO is at stake here, I think.
Cheers,
Itsallaguess
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odysseus2000
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Re: Musk endeavours
BobbyD
more "buying opportunites"
Market Summary > Tesla Inc
NASDAQ: TSLA
308.88 USD −9.99 (3.13%)
I have to congratulate you on that excellent call: Tesla up over 4% today.
Regards,
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johnhemming
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Re: Musk endeavours
Itsallaguess wrote:I really do hope that Musk responds to his recent criticism in a positive way. His credibility as a CEO is at stake here, I think.
He may not be much good at PR (although better than Trump).but he is a good entrepreneurial scientist/engineer.
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odysseus2000
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Re: Musk endeavours
Tesla does over 400,000 km and most of battery life is still there:
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-s ... gradation/
Regards,
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-s ... gradation/
Regards,
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odysseus2000
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Re: Musk endeavours
The story behind .Musk's involvement in the Thai rescue:
https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-full-st ... cue-effort
Kind of an interesting read, especially in terms of Musk's reluctance to get involved, the feedback he got re his submarine etc.
Regards,
https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-full-st ... cue-effort
Kind of an interesting read, especially in terms of Musk's reluctance to get involved, the feedback he got re his submarine etc.
Regards,
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odysseus2000
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Re: Musk endeavours
Twitter exchange between Musk & senior diver during the Thai rescue:
https://mobile.twitter.com/martinengwic ... 4104568832
Regards,
https://mobile.twitter.com/martinengwic ... 4104568832
Regards,
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vrdiver
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Re: Musk endeavours
odysseus2000 wrote:Twitter exchange between Musk & senior diver during the Thai rescue:
https://mobile.twitter.com/martinengwic ... 4104568832
Regards,
Hmmm. image of alleged email exchange (so not authenticated) posted by whom? Then followed up by "Elon Musk" with a twitter handle of @eIomsnwusk rather than @elonmusk...
Much as I'd like to believe this exchange and the positive slant it puts on Musk's behaviour, it doesn't fill me with confidence in its authenticity.
More believable is the article from the ChinaPost https://chinapost.nownews.com/20180718-380472:
Tesla founder Elon Musk said on Wednesday he was sorry for insulting remarks he made on Twitter about a British volunteer
.
.
.
“His [Unsworth’s] actions against me do not justify my actions against him, and for that I apologize to Mr. Unsworth and to the companies I represent as leader,” Musk said in a tweet. “The fault in mine and mine alone.”
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PeterGray
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Re: Musk endeavours
The story behind .Musk's involvement in the Thai rescue:
A story behind Musk and the cave rescue. Not worth going on with this anymore, but it's clearly only one story, and the bits about the cave and the sub just don't ring true.
Peter
A story behind Musk and the cave rescue. Not worth going on with this anymore, but it's clearly only one story, and the bits about the cave and the sub just don't ring true.
Peter
Last edited by tjh290633 on July 18th, 2018, 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Tags corrected - TJH
Reason: Tags corrected - TJH
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BobbyD
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Re: Musk endeavours
PeterGray wrote:The story behind .Musk's involvement in the Thai rescue:
A story behind Musk and the cave rescue. Not worth going on with this anymore, but it's clearly only one story, and the bits about the cave and the sub just don't ring true.
Peter
I doubt either that very many people tell Musk to sod off because we are busy, or we will ever know exactly what happened, but I'd wager the two are connected.
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odysseus2000
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Re: Musk endeavours
Wall Street journal review of model 3 performance saloon:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/first-ever ... mRlnX5JRRd
Regards,
https://www.wsj.com/articles/first-ever ... mRlnX5JRRd
Regards,
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vrdiver
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Re: Musk endeavours
odysseus2000 wrote:Wall Street journal review of model 3 performance saloon:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/first-ever ... mRlnX5JRRd
Regards,
I click the link but get
PAGE UNAVAILABLE
The document you requested either no longer exists or is not currently available.
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ReformedCharacter
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Re: Musk endeavours
vrdiver wrote:odysseus2000 wrote:Wall Street journal review of model 3 performance saloon:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/first-ever ... mRlnX5JRRd
Regards,
I click the link but getPAGE UNAVAILABLE
The document you requested either no longer exists or is not currently available.
Definitely working for me. Interesting review. Musk should 'stick to his knitting' IMO, ie. making excellent electric cars and avoid social media.
RC
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