I think you are completely missing the point of this thread.
This news pales into insignificance compared with the fact that Tesla sold 215 cars in Norway this month.
Somebody has to post the baseless FUD to keep the Tesla share price artificially suppressed, else Tesla will go on to take it's rightful place as the company which rules the world, and those poor Tesla shorts will end up on display, shirtless, in the public stocks.
dspp wrote:1. So Ford is planning to start delivering a BEV in Europe in 2023, that uses a product architecture that is perhaps comparable with the best-in-class BEV (Tesla) now. Do they realise 2023 is 4-years away.
2. So Ford is openly admitting it doesn't have a competitive BEV architecture, hence using the VAG MEB architecture & supply chain.
Moreover they don't appear to be in a hurry to develop one. Deciding to nail the MEB platform early and offer companies an out from the massive investment required to develop their own electric cars/platform for that sector might just turn out to be genius. Not only does every MEB sold give MEB more scale it one less non-MEB car which will be built, removing scale from anything the company might belatedly decide to develop itself. It's the sort of thing Tesla could have done to really cement it's position in the market instead of trying to show the best volume producers on the planet that they know nothing about volume production. Who knows, they might even be paying a dividend out of their quarterly profits.
dspp wrote:3. VAG has put $7bn into that architecture, which is compromised for BEVs by also being able to cater for dino-juice variants. Mass and volume do not disappear. Also double-counting dino-juice platfor $ as BEV $ does not fool everyone.
Where does the engine go in the Modular electric drive matrix (MEB)?
The models of the future I.D. family are currently being developed on the basis of the new Modular electric drive matrix (MEB). These are Volkswagens in a variety of classes which have been designed as full electric vehicles and reach ranges of up to 500 km and more. The architecture of the MEB will fundamentally change electric cars and cars in general. The Modular Electric Toolkit jettisons all the ballast of the fossil age as it has been designed consistently for electric cars. This leads to fundamental changes in body design, interior design, the package and the powertrain characteristics of electric Volkswagens.
- https://www.volkswagen-newsroom.com/en/ ... x-meb-3677
Why would you build ICE cars on a BEV platform when you already posses the best selling ICE platform ont he planet?
That would be crazier than building BEV cars on an ICE platform when you have developed the best BEV platform out there...
dspp wrote:4. So VAG is planning at least 15 million cars off the MEB platform in a decade, including dino-juice variants. That would be about 1.5m/year ........
Yup 15 million cars including dino-juice variants, nuclear powered cars, and all the ones powered by hamsters running around in their little wheels.
dspp wrote:5. There is not a single announcement about firm battery manufacturing capacity in that announcement for either Ford or VAG.
It's not a VW press release. VW have made lots of announcements about both battery contracts and battery production. Since Ford are basically outsourcing their European BEV car range I doubt they are much bothered.
dspp wrote:Do the incumbents realise how their proud announcements get read ?
I very much doubt they foresaw your particular reading.
dspp wrote:No matter how much they spin it these are admissions of failure.
From Ford's point of view it's arguable, although it's also arguable that a car company in not particularly good shape is better off taking a well designed product from a competitor and sticking it's own shell on top rather than spending billions they don't have developing an inferior product which won't sell as well, or that given all Ford's other failures this is actually a logical course of action.
If you could explain how it is a failure from VW's point of view I'd be much indebted.
dspp wrote:And the amount of capital being wasted by both Ford and VAG (and all legacy dino-juice) makes Tesla look positively parsimonious.
Having profits to reinvest in the long term future of your company is a bitch!
Producing a platform which allows those without the resources or volume to adequately design their own step over to BEV's, whilst at the same time underpinning your own transition seems rather smart to me.
dspp wrote:A full merger of VAG and Ford could well happen.
I'm not entirely sure why VW would want Ford, especially if Ford remain dependent on VW for European BEV production. The name must be worth something, but the stable is big enough already and the company is a crock.
dspp wrote:The incumbents are realising they have to bulk up to survive.
VW need to bulk up? Seriously? One in eight cars sold worldwide last year came out of the VW stable. In a falling market they sold more cars than ever before. VW are scale.
dspp wrote:This is an interesting game. The politicians are already being used and abused by incumbents to defend turf. This will get very dirty.
Tesla are getting outflanked on the clean side. VW have a platform on which they are building a lifetime carbon neutral car. If you think they are lobbying for the status quo you are mistaken.