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Musk endeavours

The Big Picture Place
BobbyD
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Re: Musk endeavours

#235208

Postby BobbyD » July 9th, 2019, 2:21 pm

BobbyD wrote:Mini Cooper SE predicted under 140 miles range, £30k. i3 guts in ICE mini shell.

- https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-revie ... ectric-ev/


BMW unveils electric Mini as it charges into new era
New model will have list price of £24,400, with first deliveries expected in early 2020

...The first deliveries to customers are expected in the first quarter of 2020, with a list price of £24,400, after the government’s plug-in car grant of £3,500 has been applied.The first deliveries to customers are expected in the first quarter of 2020, with a list price of £24,400, after the government’s plug-in car grant of £3,500 has been applied.

...The new chief executive will oversee a plan to launch 25 new electrified models by 2023, with at least 13 full-electric rather than hybrid. However, the company has also hedged its bets by producing its full-electric, hybrid, and internal combustion models using the same underlying blueprint and the same production lines – meaning it can quickly switch between fuel types in response to customer demand.


- https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... mini-price

Howard
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Re: Musk endeavours

#235246

Postby Howard » July 9th, 2019, 4:10 pm

BobbyD wrote:
Howard wrote:Hopefully you will not find the review behind the paywall, it was ok for me.


It faded out for me just after it appeared to claim Jag were the best car maker in the world, but before the explanation, or punchline!


Here are a few quotes to give a flavour of the article:

“In terms of quality and finish, meanwhile, it feels a cut above Tesla’s SUV contender, the Model X, though it lacks that car’s minimalist futurism”

“While it rides better than the Tesla Model X, then, an Audi E-Tron is more composed. It also does a much better job of damping out wind and road noise at speed; neither becomes overly intrusive in the Jaguar”

“Of course, the payoff for that slightly stiff-legged ride comes when you want to have some fun. The I-Pace is just about the most entertaining electric car there is to drive.”

“But ultimately, it’s less compromised than the competition that has come along since it was launched. It might be tough at the top, then – but that’s where the I-Pace remains.”

Just one reviewer's comments, but I think he probably knows what the well-heeled Telegraph reader might enjoy owning/leasing.

regards

Howard

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/jaguar ... ctric-car/

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Re: Musk endeavours

#235271

Postby BobbyD » July 9th, 2019, 5:11 pm

Howard wrote:
BobbyD wrote:
Howard wrote:Hopefully you will not find the review behind the paywall, it was ok for me.


It faded out for me just after it appeared to claim Jag were the best car maker in the world, but before the explanation, or punchline!


Here are a few quotes to give a flavour of the article:

“In terms of quality and finish, meanwhile, it feels a cut above Tesla’s SUV contender, the Model X, though it lacks that car’s minimalist futurism”

“While it rides better than the Tesla Model X, then, an Audi E-Tron is more composed. It also does a much better job of damping out wind and road noise at speed; neither becomes overly intrusive in the Jaguar”

“Of course, the payoff for that slightly stiff-legged ride comes when you want to have some fun. The I-Pace is just about the most entertaining electric car there is to drive.”

“But ultimately, it’s less compromised than the competition that has come along since it was launched. It might be tough at the top, then – but that’s where the I-Pace remains.”

Just one reviewer's comments, but I think he probably knows what the well-heeled Telegraph reader might enjoy owning/leasing.

regards

Howard

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/jaguar ... ctric-car/


Gave up on the telegraph after they gave Kelvin Mackenzie a column, after contributing to the BTL stink which made sure it was only ever one column...

Any idea why they've decided to review it now?

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Re: Musk endeavours

#235344

Postby dspp » July 9th, 2019, 9:02 pm

I wouldn't be quite so fast to eulogise Jaguar's EV tech:
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-rival-j ... s-remorse/
- dspp

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Re: Musk endeavours

#235355

Postby BobbyD » July 9th, 2019, 9:42 pm

dspp wrote:I wouldn't be quite so fast to eulogise Jaguar's EV tech:
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-rival-j ... s-remorse/
- dspp


Another small company with service issues!

Elon Musk: Tesla is not going to ‘refresh’ Model S and Model X, only ‘minor changes’ coming

...Tesla CEO Elon Musk claims that the automaker is not going to ‘refresh’ the Model S and Model X and only ‘minor ongoing changes’ are coming.

What does he mean by that?
Earlier this year, Tesla upgraded its Model S and Model X lineup with a new motor and suspension, but a bigger upgrade, sometimes referred to as a “refresh”, has been anticipated by the end of the year.

Now Musk, who has often claimed that Tesla doesn’t do “refreshes”, stated that “no ‘refreshed’ Model X or Model S” is coming.

However, he confirmed that a series of “minor ongoing changes” are in the work.


- https://electrek.co/2019/07/09/tesla-no ... elon-musk/

Tesla Autopilot team loses several more engineers as Elon Musk takes over


- https://electrek.co/2019/07/09/tesla-au ... akes-over/

Good job there are no imminent self-imposed future of the company defining deadlines for AP...

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Re: Musk endeavours

#235611

Postby BobbyD » July 10th, 2019, 5:00 pm


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Re: Musk endeavours

#235679

Postby BobbyD » July 10th, 2019, 7:45 pm

Another ID3 vid. Autocar take it for a spin and get their chance to play with the MEB display.

Interesting fact: All 3 battery sizes will use the same battery casing. In the small battery version it will be 2/3 full, it will be full in the medium battery version, and there will be two extra battery modules added alongside the main casing.

Apparently they are doing similar to the E-tron and only using and claiming ~90% of the actual battery capacity at any one time.

2020 Volkswagen ID 3 driven | Will VW's EV change the world? | Autocar - https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... 8cHHNPRg-c

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Re: Musk endeavours

#235699

Postby dspp » July 10th, 2019, 9:02 pm

Some TSLA GM% insight here to digest later,
https://seekingalpha.com/article/427433 ... app=1&dr=1

"In their last earnings report the company said,

"We continue to target a 25% non-GAAP gross margin on Model S, Model X and Model 3, depending on variant mix and option take rates as our product offerings change."

Both S&X and Model 3 margins were about 20% in Q1. If Tesla sticks to the 25% goal that means margins should expand as we go through the year."


The upside cases I explored a week or so ago used 30% and 35% GM, and as I indicated I thought that was pretty high and ought to come down, but it was the best data I had.

Anyway I'll think about it some more idc.

- dspp

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Re: Musk endeavours

#236075

Postby BobbyD » July 12th, 2019, 6:26 am

Out with the old

The Volkswagen Beetle has ended production. The iconic car has been a staple of Volkswagen's line-up since 1945, racking up more than 21 million sales worldwide across its three generations. The last ever model rolled off the firm’s production line on Wednesday 10th July in Puebla, Mexico.


https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/volkswage ... nally-ends

...and in with the new

Pre-production examples of the Volkswagen ID.3 have begun rolling off the assembly in Zwickau, Germany. Before traditional car manufacturers introduce a new model, they build a few hundred or a few thousand pre-production vehicles. These are used for real world testing and for determining if the assembly line has got its sums right. They are tested for cold and hot weather performance, their fit and finish is rigorously assessed, and any issues or defects are reported back to management so changes and improvements can be put in place before final production begins.


https://cleantechnica.com/2019/07/11/vo ... n-of-id-3/

The ID3 dashboard display has also be seen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iinlaeg403Q

...as well as photos of the second screen https://insideevs.com/news/359140/video ... dashboard/

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Re: Musk endeavours

#236345

Postby BobbyD » July 13th, 2019, 12:21 am

Ford's European BEV plan.

Buy German.

From Ford Press Release: - https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedi ... nce-a.html

Ford will use Volkswagen’s electric vehicle architecture and Modular Electric Toolkit (MEB) to design and build at least one high-volume fully electric vehicle in Europe for European customers starting in 2023, more efficiently advancing its promise to deliver expressive passenger cars while taking advantage of Volkswagen’s scale

...Company leaders also announced Ford will become the first additional automaker to use Volkswagen’s dedicated electric vehicle architecture and Modular Electric Toolkit – or MEB – to deliver a high-volume zero-emission vehicle in Europe starting in 2023.

Ford expects to deliver more than 600,000 European vehicles using the MEB architecture over six years, with a second all-new Ford model for European customers under discussion. This supports Ford’s European strategy, which involves continuing to play on its strengths – including commercial vehicles, compelling crossovers and imported iconic vehicles such as Mustang and Explorer.

Volkswagen started developing its MEB architecture in 2016, investing approximately $7 billion in this platform. The car-maker is planning to use this platform to build approximately 15 million cars for the Volkswagen Group alone in the next decade.

For Ford, using Volkswagen’s MEB architecture is part of its more than $11.5 billion investment in electric vehicles worldwide – and supports Ford’s commitment to offer its European customers a broad range of electric vehicles while meeting its sustainability commitments.

“Looking ahead, even more customers and the environment will benefit from Volkswagen’s industry-leading EV architecture. Our global alliance is beginning to demonstrate even greater promise, and we are continuing to look at other areas on which we might collaborate,” Diess said. “Scaling our MEB drives down development costs for zero-emissions vehicles, allowing for a broader and faster global adoption of electric vehicles. This improves the positions of both companies through greater capital efficiency, further growth and improved competitiveness.”

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Re: Musk endeavours

#236367

Postby Howard » July 13th, 2019, 9:33 am

BobbyD wrote:Ford's European BEV plan.

Buy German.

From Ford Press Release: - https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedi ... nce-a.html

Ford will use Volkswagen’s electric vehicle architecture and Modular Electric Toolkit (MEB) to design and build at least one high-volume fully electric vehicle in Europe for European customers starting in 2023, more efficiently advancing its promise to deliver expressive passenger cars while taking advantage of Volkswagen’s scale

...Company leaders also announced Ford will become the first additional automaker to use Volkswagen’s dedicated electric vehicle architecture and Modular Electric Toolkit – or MEB – to deliver a high-volume zero-emission vehicle in Europe starting in 2023.

Ford expects to deliver more than 600,000 European vehicles using the MEB architecture over six years, with a second all-new Ford model for European customers under discussion. This supports Ford’s European strategy, which involves continuing to play on its strengths – including commercial vehicles, compelling crossovers and imported iconic vehicles such as Mustang and Explorer.

Volkswagen started developing its MEB architecture in 2016, investing approximately $7 billion in this platform. The car-maker is planning to use this platform to build approximately 15 million cars for the Volkswagen Group alone in the next decade.

For Ford, using Volkswagen’s MEB architecture is part of its more than $11.5 billion investment in electric vehicles worldwide – and supports Ford’s commitment to offer its European customers a broad range of electric vehicles while meeting its sustainability commitments.

“Looking ahead, even more customers and the environment will benefit from Volkswagen’s industry-leading EV architecture. Our global alliance is beginning to demonstrate even greater promise, and we are continuing to look at other areas on which we might collaborate,” Diess said. “Scaling our MEB drives down development costs for zero-emissions vehicles, allowing for a broader and faster global adoption of electric vehicles. This improves the positions of both companies through greater capital efficiency, further growth and improved competitiveness.”


I think you are completely missing the point of this thread.

This news pales into insignificance compared with the fact that Tesla sold 215 cars in Norway this month. :lol:

Howard

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Re: Musk endeavours

#236396

Postby dspp » July 13th, 2019, 11:18 am

Ford wrote:Ford's European BEV plan.

From Ford Press Release: - https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedi ... nce-a.html

Ford will use Volkswagen’s electric vehicle architecture and Modular Electric Toolkit (MEB) to design and build at least one high-volume fully electric vehicle in Europe for European customers starting in 2023, more efficiently advancing its promise to deliver expressive passenger cars while taking advantage of Volkswagen’s scale

...Company leaders also announced Ford will become the first additional automaker to use Volkswagen’s dedicated electric vehicle architecture and Modular Electric Toolkit – or MEB – to deliver a high-volume zero-emission vehicle in Europe starting in 2023.

Ford expects to deliver more than 600,000 European vehicles using the MEB architecture over six years, with a second all-new Ford model for European customers under discussion. This supports Ford’s European strategy, which involves continuing to play on its strengths – including commercial vehicles, compelling crossovers and imported iconic vehicles such as Mustang and Explorer.

Volkswagen started developing its MEB architecture in 2016, investing approximately $7 billion in this platform. The car-maker is planning to use this platform to build approximately 15 million cars for the Volkswagen Group alone in the next decade.

For Ford, using Volkswagen’s MEB architecture is part of its more than $11.5 billion investment in electric vehicles worldwide – and supports Ford’s commitment to offer its European customers a broad range of electric vehicles while meeting its sustainability commitments.

“Looking ahead, even more customers and the environment will benefit from Volkswagen’s industry-leading EV architecture. Our global alliance is beginning to demonstrate even greater promise, and we are continuing to look at other areas on which we might collaborate,” Diess said. “Scaling our MEB drives down development costs for zero-emissions vehicles, allowing for a broader and faster global adoption of electric vehicles. This improves the positions of both companies through greater capital efficiency, further growth and improved competitiveness.”


1. So Ford is planning to start delivering a BEV in Europe in 2023, that uses a product architecture that is perhaps comparable with the best-in-class BEV (Tesla) now. Do they realise 2023 is 4-years away.

2. So Ford is openly admitting it doesn't have a competitive BEV architecture, hence using the VAG MEB architecture & supply chain.

3. VAG has put $7bn into that architecture, which is compromised for BEVs by also being able to cater for dino-juice variants. Mass and volume do not disappear. Also double-counting dino-juice platfor $ as BEV $ does not fool everyone.

4. So VAG is planning at least 15 million cars off the MEB platform in a decade, including dino-juice variants. That would be about 1.5m/year ........

5. There is not a single announcement about firm battery manufacturing capacity in that announcement for either Ford or VAG.

Do the incumbents realise how their proud announcements get read ? No matter how much they spin it these are admissions of failure. And the amount of capital being wasted by both Ford and VAG (and all legacy dino-juice) makes Tesla look positively parsimonious.

At a build rate of (say) one factory every 2-3 years Tesla will have a 1.5-million per year mfg capacity of both batteries and cars, with a factory in USA, China, and Europe within less than five years from now. And with a product architecture & performance that is evolving at a faster rate, and in a shorter clock-cycle, than either Ford or VAG. And with a full internally-owned & designed autonomy stack on top of that.

A full merger of VAG and Ford could well happen. The incumbents are realising they have to bulk up to survive. Nissan may have signed a death warrant for itself.

This is an interesting game. The politicians are already being used and abused by incumbents to defend turf. This will get very dirty.

regards, dspp

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Re: Musk endeavours

#236422

Postby BobbyD » July 13th, 2019, 1:02 pm

Howard wrote:I think you are completely missing the point of this thread.

This news pales into insignificance compared with the fact that Tesla sold 215 cars in Norway this month. :lol:


Somebody has to post the baseless FUD to keep the Tesla share price artificially suppressed, else Tesla will go on to take it's rightful place as the company which rules the world, and those poor Tesla shorts will end up on display, shirtless, in the public stocks.

dspp wrote:1. So Ford is planning to start delivering a BEV in Europe in 2023, that uses a product architecture that is perhaps comparable with the best-in-class BEV (Tesla) now. Do they realise 2023 is 4-years away.

2. So Ford is openly admitting it doesn't have a competitive BEV architecture, hence using the VAG MEB architecture & supply chain.


Moreover they don't appear to be in a hurry to develop one. Deciding to nail the MEB platform early and offer companies an out from the massive investment required to develop their own electric cars/platform for that sector might just turn out to be genius. Not only does every MEB sold give MEB more scale it one less non-MEB car which will be built, removing scale from anything the company might belatedly decide to develop itself. It's the sort of thing Tesla could have done to really cement it's position in the market instead of trying to show the best volume producers on the planet that they know nothing about volume production. Who knows, they might even be paying a dividend out of their quarterly profits.

dspp wrote:3. VAG has put $7bn into that architecture, which is compromised for BEVs by also being able to cater for dino-juice variants. Mass and volume do not disappear. Also double-counting dino-juice platfor $ as BEV $ does not fool everyone.


Where does the engine go in the Modular electric drive matrix (MEB)?

Image

The models of the future I.D. family are currently being developed on the basis of the new Modular electric drive matrix (MEB). These are Volkswagens in a variety of classes which have been designed as full electric vehicles and reach ranges of up to 500 km and more. The architecture of the MEB will fundamentally change electric cars and cars in general. The Modular Electric Toolkit jettisons all the ballast of the fossil age as it has been designed consistently for electric cars. This leads to fundamental changes in body design, interior design, the package and the powertrain characteristics of electric Volkswagens.


- https://www.volkswagen-newsroom.com/en/ ... x-meb-3677

Why would you build ICE cars on a BEV platform when you already posses the best selling ICE platform ont he planet?

That would be crazier than building BEV cars on an ICE platform when you have developed the best BEV platform out there...

dspp wrote:4. So VAG is planning at least 15 million cars off the MEB platform in a decade, including dino-juice variants. That would be about 1.5m/year ........


Yup 15 million cars including dino-juice variants, nuclear powered cars, and all the ones powered by hamsters running around in their little wheels.

dspp wrote:5. There is not a single announcement about firm battery manufacturing capacity in that announcement for either Ford or VAG.


It's not a VW press release. VW have made lots of announcements about both battery contracts and battery production. Since Ford are basically outsourcing their European BEV car range I doubt they are much bothered.

dspp wrote:Do the incumbents realise how their proud announcements get read ?


I very much doubt they foresaw your particular reading.

dspp wrote:No matter how much they spin it these are admissions of failure.


From Ford's point of view it's arguable, although it's also arguable that a car company in not particularly good shape is better off taking a well designed product from a competitor and sticking it's own shell on top rather than spending billions they don't have developing an inferior product which won't sell as well, or that given all Ford's other failures this is actually a logical course of action.

If you could explain how it is a failure from VW's point of view I'd be much indebted.

dspp wrote:And the amount of capital being wasted by both Ford and VAG (and all legacy dino-juice) makes Tesla look positively parsimonious.


Having profits to reinvest in the long term future of your company is a bitch!

Producing a platform which allows those without the resources or volume to adequately design their own step over to BEV's, whilst at the same time underpinning your own transition seems rather smart to me.

dspp wrote:A full merger of VAG and Ford could well happen.


I'm not entirely sure why VW would want Ford, especially if Ford remain dependent on VW for European BEV production. The name must be worth something, but the stable is big enough already and the company is a crock.

dspp wrote:The incumbents are realising they have to bulk up to survive.


VW need to bulk up? Seriously? One in eight cars sold worldwide last year came out of the VW stable. In a falling market they sold more cars than ever before. VW are scale.

dspp wrote:This is an interesting game. The politicians are already being used and abused by incumbents to defend turf. This will get very dirty.


Tesla are getting outflanked on the clean side. VW have a platform on which they are building a lifetime carbon neutral car. If you think they are lobbying for the status quo you are mistaken.

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Re: Musk endeavours

#236439

Postby BobbyD » July 13th, 2019, 2:08 pm

Howard wrote:I think you are completely missing the point of this thread.

This news pales into insignificance compared with the fact that Tesla sold 215 cars in Norway this month. :lol:

Howard


Breaking news.

They've hit 216.

https://eu-evs.com/

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Re: Musk endeavours

#236685

Postby BobbyD » July 14th, 2019, 11:35 pm

Mercedes-Benz completes deliveries of its fleet of electric semi trucks for testing with customers

Mercedes-Benz has now delivered the last one of its 10 eActros electric semi trucks as part of the first phase of its ‘Innovation fleet’ to test the electric trucks with customers.


- https://electrek.co/2019/07/12/mercedes ... est-fleet/

They could do with a winner

Mercedes Shows the Car Industry Can't Be Trusted

A shocking profit warning less than three weeks after the last one. This goes beyond the usual kitchen-sinking by a new boss.

...But this is Daimler’s fourth profit warning in barely 12 months, and the last one came less than three weeks ago. It had already chucked out the kitchen sink; now’s it’s moved on to tearing out the plumbing.


- https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/artic ... be-trusted

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Re: Musk endeavours

#236725

Postby dspp » July 15th, 2019, 10:05 am


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Re: Musk endeavours

#236787

Postby odysseus2000 » July 15th, 2019, 2:00 pm



Is tesla' Cobalt usage still tending to zero?:

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/06/17/te ... n-commits/

Regards,

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Re: Musk endeavours

#236807

Postby dspp » July 15th, 2019, 3:13 pm

"UK Treasury has confirmed that employees who drive zero-emission company cars will pay no benefit-in-kind (BIK) tax for the year. This decision heavily incentivizes businesses to purchase electric vehicles for their fleets, which contribute to nearly six out of ten new car registrations in the UK today. "

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3 ... ny-car-uk/

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Re: Musk endeavours

#236836

Postby BobbyD » July 15th, 2019, 4:41 pm

Say hello to my little friend

Pablo Escobar’s brother wants $100 million in Tesla shares for Not-a-Flamethrower dispute


https://www.teslarati.com/elon-musk-bor ... r-dispute/

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Re: Musk endeavours

#236839

Postby dspp » July 15th, 2019, 4:48 pm

BobbyD wrote:
dspp wrote:3. VAG has put $7bn into that architecture, which is compromised for BEVs by also being able to cater for dino-juice variants. Mass and volume do not disappear. Also double-counting dino-juice platfor $ as BEV $ does not fool everyone.


Where does the engine go in the Modular electric drive matrix (MEB)?

Image

The models of the future I.D. family are currently being developed on the basis of the new Modular electric drive matrix (MEB). These are Volkswagens in a variety of classes which have been designed as full electric vehicles and reach ranges of up to 500 km and more. The architecture of the MEB will fundamentally change electric cars and cars in general. The Modular Electric Toolkit jettisons all the ballast of the fossil age as it has been designed consistently for electric cars. This leads to fundamental changes in body design, interior design, the package and the powertrain characteristics of electric Volkswagens.


- https://www.volkswagen-newsroom.com/en/ ... x-meb-3677

Why would you build ICE cars on a BEV platform when you already posses the best selling ICE platform ont he planet?

That would be crazier than building BEV cars on an ICE platform when you have developed the best BEV platform out there....


BD,

My understanding is that VAG are planning to deliver an overall unified BEV and ICE and HEV platform. That at least has been my understanding. Then if you ask these questions you will see some of the issues:

1. What is the weight of the battery. What is the weight of the ICE equivalents. The ICE is lighter, and the weight is differently located - one has fore & aft weight, and the other is low down and central. Different polar moments, different CoG, different absolute masses. So the suspension beef, unibody rigidity and load transfer paths, and heights are all different. So a compromise design is worse than two point-designs.

2. What is the volume of the ICE engine vs the space grab required for a frunk ? Again a compromise design is worse than two point-designs.

3. Where is the fuel tank ? That volume and crash protection / firewalling for the fuel tank & engine compartments are not required in the BEV. So a compromise design is worse than two point-designs.

4. The ICE engine acts like a battering ram in transferring impact forces into the passenger cell. So the ICE design needs different structural protections than the BEV design. So a compromise design is worse than two point-designs.

5. The BEV cell modules are an opportunity for rigidity function sharing. That does not exist in the ICE so rigidity must come other ways. So a compromise design is worse than two point-designs.

6. Ditto for NVH, cooling, heating, etc etc etc

Modularity in design and in manufacture has been a holy grail for the auto industry for 30+ years now, and they have found it exceedingly difficult to achieve even for comparatively similar ICE products. In fact it is arguable if trad auto has ever quite managed to 'do' modularity and whether it can in fact really be done ever. The leader at getting it right in my opinion is in fact VAG = Toyota so I have a very high opinion of them in this respect. However adding in pure BEV products into the modularity mix is - in my opinion - going too far. To be honest they struggle enough with satisficing designs already. Trying to force modularity and platforming too far gets bad design outcomes that exhibit themselves in ways that become obvious at some point, including complexity, cost, and customer appeal. This is how camels designed by a committee arise, courtesy of the computerised optimal exploration of design space to end up with hopeless compromises.

I am sure this is one of the design insights that took Tesla down the purebred route, added into the top-down entry strategy, and the dash-for-volume strategy. Having first-mover advantage also allows Tesla to grab the most obvious design language and to grab the patent goody box first. That means followers have to work around.

Just my personal professional opinion. No charge. Feel free to disagree, it is not something I am too fussed about, and I am happy to listen to different opinions on the subject. And believe me - over the years - I have had many discussions on the subject with my colleagues on that side of the fence and it is a rightly hotly debated topic.

regards, dspp


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