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Musk endeavours

The Big Picture Place
BobbyD
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Re: Musk endeavours

#244028

Postby BobbyD » August 13th, 2019, 4:50 pm

Can anybody with a Telegraph sub give us a damage assessment?

Tesla is under fire as owners complain of long waits for parts and problems contacting UK customer service.

Drivers claim they are waiting up to 10 months to have cars fixed. Tesla has a rating of 3.1 out of 10 on consumer review site Trustpilot and owners allege the company’s previously high standard of service is in decline.

Martin Kulin, 59, from Horsham, west Sussex, told the Telegraph he took a £25,000 loss selling his Model S after just 11 months because of the stress. He said he was told he would have to wait seven months to have the windscreen replaced.


- https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/ ... ths-parts/

odysseus2000
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Re: Musk endeavours

#244057

Postby odysseus2000 » August 13th, 2019, 6:11 pm

Redsturgeon

Not quite it is:

Initial payment £1473.54 followed by 23 payments of £491.18

so about £1000 more than your calcs.

That was for 10,000 miles per year.

For next year no BIK at all and I believe 2% of list price the year after.

Interestingly these are the inc VAT figures even though I asked for a business quote therefore I can claim back 20% from these figures.

Looks good to me.

John
,

Thank you for the correction.

If the leasing company advertise these kinds of figures I would be surprised if there was not a good bit of interest.

Regards

Howard
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Re: Musk endeavours

#244103

Postby Howard » August 13th, 2019, 10:08 pm

redsturgeon wrote:
odysseus2000 wrote:Via a Lemon Fool advert, advertising for leasing a 3:

https://www.octopusev.com/?gclid=EAIaIQ ... gJrO_D_BwE

Regards,


I followed this up.

£490 pm for a two year lease with three month up front payment.

John


That looks a good deal. A 3 Series BMW 320i Touring would cost about £9,500 for two years 10k miles for a Personal Lease (about 350 per month). But as you have added, for a business deal, the BIK is going to level up the costs.

By the way, have you asked about the delivery quote? How soon could the leasing company get a Tesla to your spec?

regards

Howard

PS Only problem with a Tesla might be reliability. Cautionary tale below. This guy got his new UK Model 3 very quickly three or four weeks ago. But it had a fault which meant it took two and a half weeks to repair. So it's been longer in the repair shop than in his possession so far. As I've written before, I have only had one fault with a Mercedes, VW or BMW in the last 20+ years of motoring. That was an automatic tailgate on a Merc estate which needed re-programming.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDztu_bOmx0

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Re: Musk endeavours

#244125

Postby odysseus2000 » August 14th, 2019, 2:56 am

That looks a good deal. A 3 Series BMW 320i Touring would cost about £9,500 for two years 10k miles for a Personal Lease (about 350 per month). But as you have added, for a business deal, the BIK is going to level up the costs.

By the way, have you asked about the delivery quote? How soon could the leasing company get a Tesla to your spec?

regards

Howard

PS Only problem with a Tesla might be reliability. Cautionary tale below. This guy got his new UK Model 3 very quickly three or four weeks ago. But it had a fault which meant it took two and a half weeks to repair. So it's been longer in the repair shop than in his possession so far. As I've written before, I have only had one fault with a Mercedes, VW or BMW in the last 20+ years of motoring. That was an automatic tailgate on a Merc estate which needed re-programming.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDztu_bOmx0


In the comments the guy said he ordered on the 1st-May and collected on the 29th-June, so about 8 weeks.

His comments on would he recommend the car fit in with what I have observed in the folk I know who have bought electric. So far I have found no one who wants to go back to an ICE vehicle.

Looking at the lease costs, BIK benefits, London savings etc and comparing them to a similar specification ICE car suggests that even an accountant would not find too much to complain about on the financial side.

Whether the reliability is good enough, the fears of having it go in for service and not re-appear for a very long time is too big etc I don't really know and will be very different depending on each persons use etc. I imagine as the car matures these issues will decline and as far as I understand it there would be loaner vehicle for the period.

As an investor, looking at the bigger picture: The costs, performance and owner commentary is re-assuring. Whether the 3 will become known as the Model T of the electric age in the history lessons of the future I can not know, but for now it seems to be the car that has the most chance of being so known. If I wanted to construct a case for why it will not be as popular as the Model T it would be the price which is still too high for it to be a car of the people in the way that the T was. Whether the price can be got down, or the price of the ICE raised up to effectively to do this can't I believe happen until there is much more supply, meaning that gigafactory 3 will have to be up and running reliably. Both gigafactory 2 and 3 will likely produce output that has better paint than gigafactory 1 as the latter paint shop is, as I understand it, using relatively old technology, although the number of videos I have seen of folk slating the paint job on the 3 has declined.

Regards,

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Re: Musk endeavours

#244130

Postby BobbyD » August 14th, 2019, 6:53 am

redsturgeon wrote:
odysseus2000 wrote:Via a Lemon Fool advert, advertising for leasing a 3:

https://www.octopusev.com/?gclid=EAIaIQ ... gJrO_D_BwE

Regards,


I followed this up.

£490 pm for a two year lease with three month up front payment.

John


Happened across a thread on UK leasing whilst digging around for nything else on the Telegraph UK repairs story I linked to earlier.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... 65/page-22

These guys get a lot of early mentions: https://www.drive-electric.co.uk/vehicle/

This doesn't sound great:

Have tried 3 times to phone tesla today on 01628450604 but the calls have all gone on over 1 hour and Tesla just hang up on the other end without answering.
Using the weq4u app which means that thankfully I'm not wasting my minutes on the call to them but anyone had any luck with another phone number?
Was getting through to them fine the previous few weeks so just assume there's limited staff in today for some reason?


- https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... ry.162454/

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Re: Musk endeavours

#244455

Postby BobbyD » August 15th, 2019, 10:43 am

On the wider debate:

GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

Toyota, Ford plan to keep hybrids as core part of their lineups, showing split in auto industry

Auto makers for two decades have leaned on hybrid vehicles to help them comply with regulations on fuel consumption and give customers greener options in the showroom. Now, two of the world’s largest car manufacturers say they see no future for hybrids in their U.S. lineups.

General Motors Co. GM and Volkswagen AG are concentrating their investment on fully electric cars, viewing hybrids—which save fuel by combining a gasoline engine with an electric motor—as only a bridge to meeting tougher tailpipe-emissions requirements, particularly in China and Europe.

...“If I had a dollar more to invest, would I spend it on a hybrid? Or would I spend it on the answer that we all know is going to happen, and get there faster and better than anybody else?” GM President Mark Reuss said in an interview.

GM’s view contrasts with other auto-making giants, including Toyota Motor Corp. TM -2.27% and Ford Motor Co. F -2.81% , which are working on full electrics but also expanding their U.S. hybrid offerings. The differing strategies show a division within the auto industry over what is the best path to full electrification, as manufacturers pivot from their more than century-old reliance on gas-powered vehicles.

Last week, Continental AG, one of the world’s biggest car-parts makers, said it would cut investment in conventional engine parts because of a faster-than-expected fall in demand—yet another sign the industry is accelerating the shift to electric vehicles.

...Still, pouring investment into both hybrids and electrics strains car-company finances, Morgan Stanley analyst Adam Jonas said. “It’s time to pick a path and commit to it,” he said.

VW and GM are focused on all-electric cars largely because of China, where new regulations require car companies to sell a minimum number of zero-emissions vehicles to avoid financial penalties.

VW plans to use its electric-car expansion in China to build scale and drive down prices faster in the U.S., said Scott Keogh, VW’s U.S. chief.

“Our strong preference is to go all-in where the market is heading, as opposed to hybrids as a way to hedge our bets,” Mr. Keogh said.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/gm-volkswa ... 1565602200

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Re: Musk endeavours

#244563

Postby Howard » August 15th, 2019, 5:00 pm

redsturgeon wrote:
I followed this up.

£490 pm for a two year lease with three month up front payment.

Interestingly these are the inc VAT figures even though I asked for a business quote therefore I can claim back 20% from these figures.

Looks good to me.

John


You might like to look at #teslaserviceissues to see if you will be happy with a Tesla.

Obviously all car manufacturers have some dissatisfied customers, but if you skim the problems recorded it does seem that Tesla are spreading themselves too thinly and are struggling to provide a decent level of after-sales service in European markets.

Their customers with problems do seem to struggle with, generally, not having a physical service centre reasonably close by. And Tesla are building a reputation for not answering the phone or emails.

regards

Howard

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Re: Musk endeavours

#244578

Postby BobbyD » August 15th, 2019, 5:56 pm

Howard wrote:
You might like to look at #teslaserviceissues to see if you will be happy with a Tesla.


The hatrick appears to be:

#TeslaServiceIssues
#teslaqualityissues
#TeslaPaintIssues

redsturgeon
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Re: Musk endeavours

#244605

Postby redsturgeon » August 15th, 2019, 7:48 pm

Yes, that is the deal breaker at the moment. When I said it looks good, I was referring to the financials only. I have been reading and watching a lot of stuff lately and it is not overly encouraging. I do have the advantage of having three cars at my disposal so the delays would not be the end of the world, just annoying.

John

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Re: Musk endeavours

#244621

Postby odysseus2000 » August 15th, 2019, 9:04 pm

I have no interest in leasing so I may be completely wrong here, but if you lease, does not the firm leasing the car have to provide a workable car for all the time of the lease?

E.g. if you lease a car and then it develops a fault which is going to take months to get repaired, is the leasing company not responsible for providing another motor whilst yours is not available? From an outside view it would seem that if you lease a car but can't use it and there is no loaner then the leasing company would be breaking its terms allowing the person leasing to hand back the keys and recover pro-rata costs from the point of when the car became unavailable.

Regards,

PS I have to congratulate some of the FUD (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt) writers for how much effort they are continuing to put into tarnishing Tesla with tales of faults and delays. They seem to have cooled on the water ingress with the windows open problem that they used for a while, also poor paint jobs are less common and have now returned to the old faithfuls FUD of how much stress owing a Tesla has caused, how much money lost due to early sales, no service, no returns of emails and calls etc.

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Re: Musk endeavours

#244629

Postby Howard » August 15th, 2019, 9:38 pm

odysseus2000 wrote:I have no interest in leasing so I may be completely wrong here, but if you lease, does not the firm leasing the car have to provide a workable car for all the time of the lease?

E.g. if you lease a car and then it develops a fault which is going to take months to get repaired, is the leasing company not responsible for providing another motor whilst yours is not available? From an outside view it would seem that if you lease a car but can't use it and there is no loaner then the leasing company would be breaking its terms allowing the person leasing to hand back the keys and recover pro-rata costs from the point of when the car became unavailable.

Regards,

PS I have to congratulate some of the FUD (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt) writers for how much effort they are continuing to put into tarnishing Tesla with tales of faults and delays. They seem to have cooled on the water ingress with the windows open problem that they used for a while, also poor paint jobs are less common and have now returned to the old faithfuls FUD of how much stress owing a Tesla has caused, how much money lost due to early sales, no service, no returns of emails and calls etc.


Ody

I've leased a few cars and, as they were new, none of them have gone wrong. So all that I have had to do is to take them in for a service after two years of trouble-free motoring.

However, with a modern ICE car, it would be unusual for a dealer to have the car for longer than a day or two. As they are under warranty, one would be given a courtesy car by the dealer whilst the car is repaired. The lease company aren't involved.

I know you find this hard to believe, but most quality new cars don't go wrong. I can't remember having to take a car into a dealer for more than a day's repair for more than 20 years, actually probably 30 years! If one has a senior management position in a large company one can't be fussing around getting a temperamental car repaired. In the real world, most company car drivers expect 100% reliability.

Tesla don't cater for the majority of company car users in my view. Just look at their typical owners. We contributors to this forum are not typical. Most company car drivers don't have time to indulge in forums like this. Until they retire :D .

regards

Howard

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Re: Musk endeavours

#244632

Postby odysseus2000 » August 15th, 2019, 9:54 pm

Ody

I've leased a few cars and, as they were new, none of them have gone wrong. So all that I have had to do is to take them in for a service after two years of trouble-free motoring.

However, with a modern ICE car, it would be unusual for a dealer to have the car for longer than a day or two. As they are under warranty, one would be given a courtesy car by the dealer whilst the car is repaired. The lease company aren't involved.

I know you find this hard to believe, but most quality new cars don't go wrong. I can't remember having to take a car into a dealer for more than a day's repair for more than 20 years, actually probably 30 years! If one has a senior management position in a large company one can't be fussing around getting a temperamental car repaired. In the real world, most company car drivers expect 100% reliability.

Tesla don't cater for the majority of company car users in my view. Just look at their typical owners. We contributors to this forum are not typical. Most company car drivers don't have time to indulge in forums like this. Until they retire :D .

regards

Howard


Yes, it is wonderful how reliable modern cars are.

However, I have known recent news cars fail with catastrophic engine faults with little more than delivery miles on them.

If someone time poor, e.g. some one in a senior management position, was to have this kind of bad luck and the leased car fail in some manner that would take a long time to repair, what would happen? From what you say, the car would go back to the dealer, the mechanics there would say it's had a serious failure and a loner car would be provided. If this didn't happen, what could the time poor person leasing the car do?

Regards,

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Re: Musk endeavours

#244674

Postby redsturgeon » August 16th, 2019, 8:05 am

Leased cars by their very nature are new cars. Most new cars these days have at least a three year warranty from the manufacturer therefore they will take them back via their dealer network , fix them for free in that time period and IME provide a free loan car. I think one issue for Tesla is their lack of a dealer network.

I have not been as lucky as Howard I have had several failures of relatively new cars in the last ten years.

- A two year old Mercedes ML had a major failure of the electrics causing the heating to be on constantly. Fixed in a couple of days under warranty courtesy ML provided.

- A diesel VW (bought at one year old by me) had a turbo fail at 48k miles just outside warranty and was fixed with free parts supplied, three days in the garage (two hundred yards from my house).

- A Mini had the power steering fail, fixed in two days, courtesy car provided.

- Range Rover had a squeaky seat that was replaced under warranty with a loan car provided.

- My present BMW had the power steering fail and took a month to fix. Similar standard BMW provided for free from local car hire company for the month that it took to get the new parts. (estimated cost over £1000 for the loan car!)

Perhaps I have been unlucky but my experiences make me concerned by the reports that Tesla are below average for reliability and once a car fails then it may take a while for a response and a fix from them. I have little concern if I have an issue that is either fixed quickly or where I am provided with a similar replacement car while it is fixed. I have been lucky that this has generally been the case and each of the cars listed has only suffered one major issue rather than several.

All of the cars I have bought have a local main dealer within 15 miles from me, I believe the nearest Tesla showroom is 70 miles away this may be a problem.

Last point to note is that the only cars I have run in the past decade that have developed zero faults have been one Honda, one Ford, one VW Golf and one Lexus. Previously I had run at least half a dozen Golf GTis over twenty years and had never had a fault in any of them.

John

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Re: Musk endeavours

#244683

Postby dspp » August 16th, 2019, 8:38 am

Friends of mine do, or have in the past, run Maseratis or Porsches or Ferraris. They mostly lived about a 125 miles or more from the corresponding brand's dealers & service centres (let's call that the same thing). It didn't seem to stop them buying them either new or fairly new, and they accepted the issues with getting them to the dealers for servicing & repairs. Indeed these tend to be a need for fairly frequent servicing, all-too-frequent repairs, and eye-watering bills. Oh, and they absolutely had to go to the dealer.

This is/was in the UK.

There are some relevant points in this:
- many brands do not have dealers at 25-mile intervals across the UK;
- many people live in areas where dealers are a very considerable distance away;
- the brands in question managed to remain desirable, despite a need for frequent servicing, eye-watering costs, and inconvenient but common need for repairs;
- and everyone seemed to think this was all perfectly reasonable.

I think some of you have a very metro-centric view of things, and a reluctance to acknowledge that quite a lot of the FUD you are throwing around is equally - if not more - applicable to legacy dino-juice auto than to Tesla EVs.

regards, dspp

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Re: Musk endeavours

#244691

Postby BobbyD » August 16th, 2019, 9:19 am

dspp wrote:Friends of mine do, or have in the past, run Maseratis or Porsches or Ferraris. They mostly lived about a 125 miles or more from the corresponding brand's dealers & service centres (let's call that the same thing). It didn't seem to stop them buying them either new or fairly new, and they accepted the issues with getting them to the dealers for servicing & repairs. Indeed these tend to be a need for fairly frequent servicing, all-too-frequent repairs, and eye-watering bills. Oh, and they absolutely had to go to the dealer.

This is/was in the UK.

There are some relevant points in this:
- many brands do not have dealers at 25-mile intervals across the UK;
- many people live in areas where dealers are a very considerable distance away;
- the brands in question managed to remain desirable, despite a need for frequent servicing, eye-watering costs, and inconvenient but common need for repairs;
- and everyone seemed to think this was all perfectly reasonable.

I think some of you have a very metro-centric view of things, and a reluctance to acknowledge that quite a lot of the FUD you are throwing around is equally - if not more - applicable to legacy dino-juice auto than to Tesla EVs.

regards, dspp


Did any of them put you in to a queue when you phoned them and then disconnect you after an hour on hold every time you called them, and just ignore your emails? Maserati, Porsche and Ferrari manage to remain well regarded and profitable precisely because they pay attention to the whole company/customer interaction. This is exactly what Tesla, and some Tesla shareholders, are studiously ignoring.

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Re: Musk endeavours

#244696

Postby dspp » August 16th, 2019, 9:44 am

BobbyD wrote:
dspp wrote:Friends of mine do, or have in the past, run Maseratis or Porsches or Ferraris. They mostly lived about a 125 miles or more from the corresponding brand's dealers & service centres (let's call that the same thing). It didn't seem to stop them buying them either new or fairly new, and they accepted the issues with getting them to the dealers for servicing & repairs. Indeed these tend to be a need for fairly frequent servicing, all-too-frequent repairs, and eye-watering bills. Oh, and they absolutely had to go to the dealer.

This is/was in the UK.

There are some relevant points in this:
- many brands do not have dealers at 25-mile intervals across the UK;
- many people live in areas where dealers are a very considerable distance away;
- the brands in question managed to remain desirable, despite a need for frequent servicing, eye-watering costs, and inconvenient but common need for repairs;
- and everyone seemed to think this was all perfectly reasonable.

I think some of you have a very metro-centric view of things, and a reluctance to acknowledge that quite a lot of the FUD you are throwing around is equally - if not more - applicable to legacy dino-juice auto than to Tesla EVs.

regards, dspp


Did any of them put you in to a queue when you phoned them and then disconnect you after an hour on hold every time you called them, and just ignore your emails? Maserati, Porsche and Ferrari manage to remain well regarded and profitable precisely because they pay attention to the whole company/customer interaction. This is exactly what Tesla, and some Tesla shareholders, are studiously ignoring.


I don't know. I do know that sales & service relationships with customers of these brands have not / are not always perfect based on some of the stories I am told, but clearly I don't know all the details.

I am sure that Tesla sales are not perfect and can be improved. Equally I am very supportive of Tesla pushing as much as possible into an on-line channel, and thereby neutralising a lot of time-wasters. The only time I have directly asked myself for a test drive I was told yes, but they only had a S or an X available and all their 3s were out at the time on booked test drives. I did by the way point out that at that particular moment it would have been for interest only, but they were still prepared to let me do it. However I was only interested in the 3 and did not take it further.

Bottom line: Tesla could usefully improve some things, but are doing OK in changing the way things are always done.

regards, dspp

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Re: Musk endeavours

#244701

Postby BobbyD » August 16th, 2019, 9:58 am

dspp wrote:I am sure that Tesla sales are not perfect and can be improved. Equally I am very supportive of Tesla pushing as much as possible into an on-line channel, and thereby neutralising a lot of time-wasters.


Time wasters is an interesting way to describe customers who have parted with upwards of £40k for one of your cars and would like some basic information on it's delivery/repair which is running 'somewhat' behind.

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Re: Musk endeavours

#244719

Postby Howard » August 16th, 2019, 10:37 am

dspp wrote:Friends of mine do, or have in the past, run Maseratis or Porsches or Ferraris. They mostly lived about a 125 miles or more from the corresponding brand's dealers & service centres (let's call that the same thing). It didn't seem to stop them buying them either new or fairly new, and they accepted the issues with getting them to the dealers for servicing & repairs. Indeed these tend to be a need for fairly frequent servicing, all-too-frequent repairs, and eye-watering bills. Oh, and they absolutely had to go to the dealer.

This is/was in the UK.

There are some relevant points in this:
- many brands do not have dealers at 25-mile intervals across the UK;
- many people live in areas where dealers are a very considerable distance away;
- the brands in question managed to remain desirable, despite a need for frequent servicing, eye-watering costs, and inconvenient but common need for repairs;
- and everyone seemed to think this was all perfectly reasonable.

I think some of you have a very metro-centric view of things, and a reluctance to acknowledge that quite a lot of the FUD you are throwing around is equally - if not more - applicable to legacy dino-juice auto than to Tesla EVs.

regards, dspp


dspp

I'm not sure you are living in the real world when you start comparing Teslas with Maseratis, Porsches or Ferraris.

Except that you are backing my theory that many of the customers of Tesla are very wealthy and can dabble in owning exotic cars as they have a few more in their garage. They aren't the average motorist who needs a reliable car.

Also, you, like others are quoting "friends" who have experiences so you don't have "real" experiences of these cars. I have a friend with a helicopter, but would hesitate to consider myself able to give opinions on which brand of helicopter would suit the average pilot. :D

Some of us aren't spreading FUD, but are raising real issues which may affect a typical real world motorist. We have actually driven electric cars, purchased and leased quality cars, interacted with Tesla's Sales operation and have a reasonable idea of what the owner of a £40 - £60k car might expect.

I have also owned a Porsche 911 for three years trouble-free motoring so didn't have to visit the dealer more than twice (once because I kerbed an alloy wheel which admittedly was expensive!)

So I don't think you are being fair suggesting a lot of FUD is being spread here. We're representing critical but rational views and, at the moment, the market is agreeing with us. Any decent motor manufacturer will be able to build a strong brand and refute our criticisms. Testing Tesla's practices in the UK market is totally valid for us as potential investors. They will have to satisfy a lot of us who wouldn't dream of buying a car without test driving it and reading consumer reviews like "Which" - we are the type of consumer they have to sell to.

regards

Howard

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Re: Musk endeavours

#244726

Postby odysseus2000 » August 16th, 2019, 10:51 am

redsturgeon
Leased cars by their very nature are new cars. Most new cars these days have at least a three year warranty from the manufacturer therefore they will take them back via their dealer network , fix them for free in that time period and IME provide a free loan car. I think one issue for Tesla is their lack of a dealer network.



Perhaps I am still wrong here, but if I lease a new car & it breaks I would be supplied with a loan car till my car is fixed.

If this is correct I don't see what the risk is with any leased car.

I can imagine that there may be a slight inconvenience, but if a leased car breaks the repair folk will have to come & collect it & bring you another car. Is this the worst possible scenario with a leased car, or are there worse things that could blight the life of the person who leases?

Regards,

Howard
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Re: Musk endeavours

#244760

Postby Howard » August 16th, 2019, 12:26 pm

odysseus2000 wrote:
redsturgeon
Leased cars by their very nature are new cars. Most new cars these days have at least a three year warranty from the manufacturer therefore they will take them back via their dealer network , fix them for free in that time period and IME provide a free loan car. I think one issue for Tesla is their lack of a dealer network.



Perhaps I am still wrong here, but if I lease a new car & it breaks I would be supplied with a loan car till my car is fixed.

If this is correct I don't see what the risk is with any leased car.

I can imagine that there may be a slight inconvenience, but if a leased car breaks the repair folk will have to come & collect it & bring you another car. Is this the worst possible scenario with a leased car, or are there worse things that could blight the life of the person who leases?

Regards,


You are right. If a leased (or company) car goes wrong and is under guarantee, you would contact the dealer, arrange to take the car in for repair and expect the dealer to lend you a courtesy car or perhaps take you into your office and collect you when the car is ready.

Normally one can find a dealer a few miles away so this is a matter of, say an hour's delay in the morning. But if the dealer is 50 miles away and you're driving in the rush hour this may be a whole morning wasted.

Looking at twitter accounts and consumer reviews, the problem is much worse if, when the car goes wrong, you can't contact Tesla because they won't reply. Taking real examples, you now have a Model 3 with, say, a serious crack in the large rear window which is a safety issue. Or a display which keeps going blank so you don't know what speed you are going. If you are driving on business, you want the issue dealt with immediately, just like a normal ICE dealer repair. If you phone a Mercedes dealer, you'd expect the service team to reply within a minute or two, or if they are busy, phone you back.

The problem seems to be that Tesla are not good at responding to service issues. Yes, once one has a courtesy car, one can relax to some extent as one is still mobile. However, it isn't the new car you have leased/bought and customers generally don't want substitutes.

Hope this helps to explain why customers are complaining.

regards

Howard


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