Transition to Electric Car Endeavours

[odysseus2000]

According to this a small alpha 311 can produce over 8 megawatts of power per year:

https://www.pagerpower.com/news/vertica ... -turbines/

Regards,

[kiloran]

According to this a small alpha 311 can produce over 8 megawatts of power per year:

https://www.pagerpower.com/news/vertica ... -turbines/

Regards,

8 megawatt-hours. Not megawatts.

I do wonder what the "can/could" might be hiding. Sounds rather uncertain.

--kiloran

[odysseus2000]

According to this a small alpha 311 can produce over 8 megawatts of power per year:

https://www.pagerpower.com/news/vertica ... -turbines/

Regards,

8 megawatt-hours. Not megawatts.

I do wonder what the "can/could" might be hiding. Sounds rather uncertain.

--kiloran

Yes, MegaWatt-Hours, sorry, I was rushing with several jobs and not paying full attention.

If these numbers are correct then the whole wind energy landscape changes.

There are several urban projects now underway so we should get some more definitive details and also some idea of the maintenance over head.

The wind created by a passing car is quite substantial as can be seen during leaf fall with how dry leaves are scattered by cars going by, so that if these turbines can operate reliably at something like the claimed power levels there should be a significant amount of free fuel electricity from the UK roads and presumably no more noise than what one gets from car frames moving through the air.

As I understand it the original idea was just to provide street lighting through the night, but the first tests showed there was much more power available and this led to the developments we are now seeing ship to commercial applications.

Regards,

[TUK020]

can do up to 8MWhrs per year = <1kW peak
300W average on a busy motorway?
OK, so I was slightly out.

This not something that will meaningfully affect the uptake of EVs, or how they are charged.

[JohnB]

Harvesting entrained air will never be worthwhile. Tubines need to be big to be efficient, not car scale, and if you try to slow the entrained air you will reduce car efficency as the vehicle is encountering a slower flow.

[GoSeigen]

I guess in the future, when all vehicles are electric, the turbines could be powered by the passing cars & lorries and the electricity generated is fed back into charging the cars - possibly through some sort of motorway inductive charging pads?

My God you've invented perpetual motion!

Barmy discussion...

GS

[odysseus2000]

can do up to 8MWhrs per year = <1kW peak
300W average on a busy motorway?
OK, so I was slightly out.

This not something that will meaningfully affect the uptake of EVs, or how they are charged.

This is per turbine, multiply by n where n is a large number and it becomes meaningful.

Regards,

[odysseus2000]

Harvesting entrained air will never be worthwhile. Tubines need to be big to be efficient, not car scale, and if you try to slow the entrained air you will reduce car efficency as the vehicle is encountering a slower flow.

No, that was the perceived wisdom but unless alpha 311 and others are hoaxing a lot of people by falsifying results, then the small turbines work well at harvesting the energy from otherwise wasted air movement kinetic energy created as vehicles move through the air.

The power is local and can be stored in batteries and fed into the local area as needed.

Regards,

[ReformedCharacter]

No, that was the perceived wisdom but unless alpha 311 and others are hoaxing a lot of people by falsifying results, then the small turbines work well at harvesting the energy from otherwise wasted air movement kinetic energy created as vehicles move through the air.

The power is local and can be stored in batteries and fed into the local area as needed.

Regards,

Something on the subject here:

A vertical axis wind turbine that doesn't need the prevailing wind! How do they do that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcSnwW5v3f8

RC

[odysseus2000]

No, that was the perceived wisdom but unless alpha 311 and others are hoaxing a lot of people by falsifying results, then the small turbines work well at harvesting the energy from otherwise wasted air movement kinetic energy created as vehicles move through the air.

The power is local and can be stored in batteries and fed into the local area as needed.

Regards,

Something on the subject here:

A vertical axis wind turbine that doesn't need the prevailing wind! How do they do that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcSnwW5v3f8

RC

Great video, thank you for posting!

Regards,

[BobbyD]

UK vehicle registrations





Marketshare



- https://www.smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/car-registrations/

[funduffer]

UK vehicle registrations





Marketshare



- https://www.smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/car-registrations/

Yep, it’s happening. Let’s hope the charging infrastructure can keep up.

Note also £7k price reduction by Tesla in the UK!

FD

[funduffer]

However......the incentives to swap to an EV are not so great now:

I bought an EV 18 months ago, but seriously considered a petrol hybrid from the same range of cars. It cost me about 25% more to buy than the petrol hybrid equivalent, even with a £2k subsidy.

In the first year of ownership I was paying 15p/kWh at home for electricity and about 20p/kWh on average using public charging infrastructure. At 4miles/kWh, that works out at about 4p per mile overall (assuming 75% charging at home and 25% on the road).

The equivalent petrol hybrid runs at about 50mpg, and in the equivalent year petrol was about £1.80 per litre, which works out at about 16p per mile - so about 4 times higher than an EV.

Looking at the situation now - there is no subsidy on EV's, electricity costs about 34p/kWh at home, and public charging costs more like 60p per kWh. In contrast, the price of petrol has dropped to more like £1.50/l.

So now these 2 comparable vehicles cost nearly the same to run. The EV works out at about 11p per mile and the petrol hybrid about 13p per mile.

Quite a change over the last year or so, and this may well put a brake on the switch to EV's! Certainly if you were totally reliant on public chargers it would not be very attractive to buy and EV.

FD

[Wuffle]

I only know people who have adopted BEVs with favourable BIK and tax positions.
I feel this is should be the starting point for forensic analysis of the adoption rate / costs etc.
They are out there in numbers because of the tax bribe.

W.

[scrumpyjack]

I only know people who have adopted BEVs with favourable BIK and tax positions.
I feel this is should be the starting point for forensic analysis of the adoption rate / costs etc.
They are out there in numbers because of the tax bribe.

W.

Well I bought mine with no tax or BIK incentives as I'm retired and it was a personal purchase. Both of the BEVs bought by friends of mine were also personal cars with no tax benefits.

[odysseus2000]

However......the incentives to swap to an EV are not so great now:

I bought an EV 18 months ago, but seriously considered a petrol hybrid from the same range of cars. It cost me about 25% more to buy than the petrol hybrid equivalent, even with a £2k subsidy.

In the first year of ownership I was paying 15p/kWh at home for electricity and about 20p/kWh on average using public charging infrastructure. At 4miles/kWh, that works out at about 4p per mile overall (assuming 75% charging at home and 25% on the road).

The equivalent petrol hybrid runs at about 50mpg, and in the equivalent year petrol was about £1.80 per litre, which works out at about 16p per mile - so about 4 times higher than an EV.

Looking at the situation now - there is no subsidy on EV's, electricity costs about 34p/kWh at home, and public charging costs more like 60p per kWh. In contrast, the price of petrol has dropped to more like £1.50/l.

So now these 2 comparable vehicles cost nearly the same to run. The EV works out at about 11p per mile and the petrol hybrid about 13p per mile.

Quite a change over the last year or so, and this may well put a brake on the switch to EV's! Certainly if you were totally reliant on public chargers it would not be very attractive to buy and EV.

FD

A neighbour with a BEV tells me he pays 7p per kWh charging overnight. I think his suppliers is OVO. Perhaps worth enquiring about.

Perhaps other posters here can comment on their electricity charges.

Regards,

[odysseus2000]

For anyone interested in UK power generation there is a nice site from National Grid that shows power generation by source:

https://grid.iamkate.com

What often surprises me is that even in winter with the sun low and day light hours short, there is often a several percent solar contribution.

As I understand it, the generators offering low cost over night power are predominantly using renewables for their source, ovo claim 100% renewable.

Regards,

[Tedx]

For anyone interested in UK power generation there is a nice site from National Grid that shows power generation by source:

https://grid.iamkate.com

What often surprises me is that even in winter with the sun low and day light hours short, there is often a several percent solar contribution.

As I understand it, the generators offering low cost over night power are predominantly using renewables for their source, ovo claim 100% renewable.

Regards,

Scottish Power claim 100% renewable too. My new night time rate (flexible contract) is within a tenth of penny of my recently expired fixed rate. The day rate and the standing charge are considerably higher though.

[scotview]

As I understand it, the generators offering low cost over night power are predominantly using renewables for their source, ovo claim 100% renewable.

Regards,

I think that one understated aspect of BEVs is the potential for off peak charging and giving back daytime/evening energy to the home from the car battery, potentially 60 kWh.

I've looked at a relatively low cost Chinese made MG BEV with proven V2L (vehicle to load) functionality and with the correct earthing this could possibly top up a home battery through the inverter. Maybe a good alternative for low efficiency winter solar.

Really think this potential is overlooked and will come to the fore in the not too distant future, especially if, rightly or wrongly, the electrification agenda is pushed even more aggressively and there's loads of cheap night time energy generation with nowhere to go.

[odysseus2000]

As I understand it, the generators offering low cost over night power are predominantly using renewables for their source, ovo claim 100% renewable.

Regards,

I think that one understated aspect of BEVs is the potential for off peak charging and giving back daytime/evening energy to the home from the car battery, potentially 60 kWh.

I've looked at a relatively low cost Chinese made MG BEV with proven V2L (vehicle to load) functionality and with the correct earthing this could possibly top up a home battery through the inverter. Maybe a good alternative for low efficiency winter solar.

Really think this potential is overlooked and will come to the fore in the not too distant future, especially if, rightly or wrongly, the electrification agenda is pushed even more aggressively and there's loads of cheap night time energy generation with nowhere to go.

A BEV can act like a power wall, but it depends on what need there is for the car as clearly it can't act as a power wall if it is used to travel to work although even a car used for work will in general be available in the evening and then can charge over night.

There is a complicated dynamic in the power industry as a lot of costs are associated with maintaining the grid. If one can store electricity locally in cars or power walls this potentially reduces the load on the grid with more over night use and reduced day time use and potentially reduces maintenance costs if peak loads fall.

With a BEV the generator gets storage at no cost to them and there is a school of thought which says that electrical costs will tend to zero with more and more renewables that are free fuel and more and more local or edge storage for the consumer.

Regards,