Transition to Electric Car Endeavours

[GrahamPlatt]

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/money/car ... 067197002/

[scrumpyjack]

For anyone interested in UK power generation there is a nice site from National Grid that shows power generation by source:

https://grid.iamkate.com

What often surprises me is that even in winter with the sun low and day light hours short, there is often a several percent solar contribution.

As I understand it, the generators offering low cost over night power are predominantly using renewables for their source, ovo claim 100% renewable.

Regards,

Scottish Power claim 100% renewable too. My new night time rate (flexible contract) is within a tenth of penny of my recently expired fixed rate. The day rate and the standing charge are considerably higher though.

That is debatable. Their electricity is being provided by the National Grid. It is rather as if generators of electricity are pouring electricity into a central pool and suppliers are buying from that pool, with national grid also using balancing mechanisms to ensure the pool never runs dry. So for a supplier to claim that their electricity is 100% renewable isn't really true. They cannot possibly know which generator the electrons passed on by national grid are coming from and in fact the likes of Scottish Power have no direct function in supplying clients with power other than doing the billing.

[BobbyD]

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2023/01/17/wyoming-ban-electric-vehicles-legislation/11067197002/

Call for would be more accurate. This legislative tantrum doesn't actually do anything to prevent the sale of electric cars.

[odysseus2000]

For anyone interested in UK power generation there is a nice site from National Grid that shows power generation by source:

https://grid.iamkate.com

What often surprises me is that even in winter with the sun low and day light hours short, there is often a several percent solar contribution.

As I understand it, the generators offering low cost over night power are predominantly using renewables for their source, ovo claim 100% renewable.

Regards,

Scottish Power claim 100% renewable too. My new night time rate (flexible contract) is within a tenth of penny of my recently expired fixed rate. The day rate and the standing charge are considerably higher though.

That is debatable. Their electricity is being provided by the National Grid. It is rather as if generators of electricity are pouring electricity into a central pool and suppliers are buying from that pool, with national grid also using balancing mechanisms to ensure the pool never runs dry. So for a supplier to claim that their electricity is 100% renewable isn't really true. They cannot possibly know which generator the electrons passed on by national grid are coming from and in fact the likes of Scottish Power have no direct function in supplying clients with power other than doing the billing.

This is a regular point. What OVO say is:

How do REGOs work?
Only a small number of suppliers generate renewable electricity themselves, and sell it to their customers. At OVO, we don’t generate it – we buy what we need from the electricity market, then sell it on to members.

Ofgem issues REGOs to those people who generate renewable electricity (like the owner of a wind farm, for example). They receive one REGO for every one megawatt-hour (MWh) unit of renewable electricity they put onto [the National Grid.]https://www.ovoenergy.com/blog/technology-and-innovation/how-does-the-national-grid-work

We buy REGOs, so that we can guarantee that a unit of renewable electricity has been added to the grid for every unit of renewable electricity that we sell.

https://www.ovoenergy.com/blog/green/wh ... em-and-why

So, yes the electrons that come to your house could have come from any of the UK or imported sources, but as OVO buy REGO, they guarantee that every electron they sell, from what ever generation source, is matched by an equivalent amount of renewable power put into the grid.

As I understand it OVO offer very attractive overnight charging rates of 7.5p per kWh as they are one of the few buyers of overnight wind and get this power at low cost in a buyers market and then supply overnight using their smart meter off peak capability. For folk with power walls this means that they can charge the power wall over night at this price and then use that power during the day, exporting, if they have solar, most of what they get, at potentially better prices than 7.5p per kWh.

For those houses with heat pumps and well insulated water storage, they can either heat the water via the low tariff over night or use their solar, if they have it, to heat the water during the day, or both. So that water heating becomes very inexpensive.

There are various folk on the internet who have calculated the economics of all of this for their own properties and generally find it a compelling investment option, so long as they are not planning on moving for a long period. How these things will be reflected in re-sale prices is hard to model, but potentially they should add to house values giving a way out for anyone who wants to move sooner.

It would be possible to write all of this into building codes to improve the energy efficiency of the new build UK housing stock. One argument for this is defence as the more self reliant on UK renewables we are the less vulnerable we are to an hostile force blockading imported energy supplies.

Regards,

[odysseus2000]

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2023/01/17/wyoming-ban-electric-vehicles-legislation/11067197002/

Call for would be more accurate. This legislative tantrum doesn't actually do anything to prevent the sale of electric cars.

Renewables seem to be scaring oil folk as the price of both wind and solar is beginning to make fossil fuels and fossil fuel generation very expensive in comparison.

Buffett has been saying this for around a decade or so with Berkshire having very substantial interests in wind farms.

Regards,

[starquake]

[
A neighbour with a BEV tells me he pays 7p per kWh charging overnight. I think his suppliers is OVO. Perhaps worth enquiring about.

Perhaps other posters here can comment on their electricity charges.

Regards,

EV owner, Octopus Go-Faster (no longer offerred), 7p off peak 5 hours a night, 34p peak, fixed until June 30th. Octopus have apparently >50% of all EV drivers (source from their CEO on twitter a few months ago). Something to do with them owning a large amount of wind turbines that would otherwise require the electricity sold at a loss (to other suppliers) when oversupplied AIUI.

2023 - Dad just got an EV and his rate is 42p peak, 10p off peak 6 hours a night, Intelligent Octopus is the tariff name (car needs to support it).

Works out (as its not only the car that gets the cheap rate) at around a 20p average rate for us, or 2p a mile.

This is 2023, I would say given Petrol/Diesel is 10-20p min a mile, it's still 8x cheaper. Not only that, but my savings on petrol on a "reasonable" mileage a month pay the full PCP monthly cost of the car effectively. With 0 depreciation (and in fact appreciation) since deal started, it's cheapest motoring including bangers I've ever had. Free road tax too (this year at least).

In simple terms, can I ever see going back to petrol/diesel, nope.

[airbus330]

[


With 0 depreciation (and in fact appreciation) since deal started, it's cheapest motoring including bangers I've ever had. Free road tax too (this year at least).

I'd be wary of being confident of zero depreciation on EV's. They've had a good run but reality is beginning to return and like a pop star, their days in the sun may be numbered. https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish ... ist/280273
On top of this article, there is plenty of anecdotal evidence of dealers being reluctant to buy EV for stock or giving poor trade-in values.
Looking forward, I can get an accurate view of the value of a 15yr old Ford Fiesta because the data supporting its value is vast. The vast majority of EV's have had a small and recent production run. Who knows what the value of one of those will be in 15yrs.

[airbus330]

Interesting economics blog post vis a vis the topic. Albeit with an American perspective.
https://www.manhattancontrarian.com/blo ... he-country

[GrahamPlatt]

Not cars, but delivery drones. Sounds too good to be true…

https://electrek.co/2023/03/15/adorable ... ss-energy/

I wonder if they’re comparing a 5lb drone delivery with a single 5lb delivery by a diesel truck?

[PeterGray]

I've no doubt that's exactly what they are doing!

And consider for a moment the impact of most or all courier deliveries being replaced by these - we'd spend our lives surrounded by a swarm of drones (and probably few a that had crashed into each other falling from the skies)!

I can see a role for that sort of thing for a small subset of high urgency deliveries - cheaper and quicker than sending blood by motorbike, but not as a mass delivery route.

[odysseus2000]

I've no doubt that's exactly what they are doing!

And consider for a moment the impact of most or all courier deliveries being replaced by these - we'd spend our lives surrounded by a swarm of drones (and probably few a that had crashed into each other falling from the skies)!

I can see a role for that sort of thing for a small subset of high urgency deliveries - cheaper and quicker than sending blood by motorbike, but not as a mass delivery route.

One has to also consider the impact of delivery vehicles: Pollution (brake dust, various oxides, co2), vehicle depreciation, salary of the driver, etc etc.

If we were starting from now which method would we choose?

Collision avoidance with drones is likely better than with vehicles & robotic delivery is probably more secure.

Regards,

[murraypaul]

If we were starting from now which method would we choose?

In most situations, a single larger vehicle that can deliver to 50+ different people in a single route.

Not 50 individual drones flying around.

[odysseus2000]

If we were starting from now which method would we choose?

In most situations, a single larger vehicle that can deliver to 50+ different people in a single route.

Not 50 individual drones flying around.

But 50 drones can deliver more or less simultaneously with out those at the bottom of the list having to wait.

Meanwhile the delivery van delivers heavy stuff, too big for a drone to lift.

Regards,

[Wuffle]

There is nothing funier than a set of exercise weights being slung into a seven foot high cage in a sorting depot destroying everything in its path. That is the reality, not diligently loaded precision drones.

W.

[murraypaul]

In most situations, a single larger vehicle that can deliver to 50+ different people in a single route.

Not 50 individual drones flying around.

But 50 drones can deliver more or less simultaneously with out those at the bottom of the list having to wait.

Meanwhile the delivery van delivers heavy stuff, too big for a drone to lift.

From 2021, so the numbers are probably higher now:

Amazon is the largest private parcel courier in the UK, delivering 15% of the estimated 5.4bn packages in 2021 – the equivalent of more than 2m items a day.

How many drones do you think can be flying around at once?

Another article from way back in 2016:

On a typical day a driver has 150-200 parcels to deliver.

[odysseus2000]

How many of the 150+ particles per day are light enough for drone delivery, probably not that many, but buyers may well pay a premium for fast delivery.

Regards,

[doolally]

How many of the 150+ particles per day are light enough for drone delivery, probably not that many, but buyers may well pay a premium for fast delivery.

Regards,

Particle: A minute portion of matter

I think a drone can deliver particles OK
doolally

[GrahamPlatt]

Not cars, but delivery drones. Sounds too good to be true…

https://electrek.co/2023/03/15/adorable ... ss-energy/

I wonder if they’re comparing a 5lb drone delivery with a single 5lb delivery by a diesel truck?

Well, the cynic in me has been robustly chastised…

viewtopic.php?p=576713#p576713

That video is inspiring!

[odysseus2000]

Not cars, but delivery drones. Sounds too good to be true…

https://electrek.co/2023/03/15/adorable ... ss-energy/

I wonder if they’re comparing a 5lb drone delivery with a single 5lb delivery by a diesel truck?

Well, the cynic in me has been robustly chastised…

viewtopic.php?p=576713#p576713

That video is inspiring!

Thank you for sharing!

One of the most inspiring & uplifting videos I have ever seen.

Regards,

[GrahamPlatt]

Surprising. Rowan Atkinson - yes, Mr Bean - studied Electrical Engineering.
Here’s his take on electric cars.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... n-atkinson

“I tend to say that if their car is an old diesel and they do a lot of city centre motoring, they should consider a change. But otherwise, hold fire for now. Electric propulsion will be of real, global environmental benefit one day, but that day has yet to dawn.”

Which fits with my views.