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Transition to Electric Car Endeavours

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BobbyD
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Re: Transition to Electric Car Endeavours

#154847

Postby BobbyD » July 25th, 2018, 1:49 am

I'm constantly surprised by the number of people who don't realise we already have ways of encouraging people to use off peak electricity... although the idea of splitting ev's off at the meter would make it even easier.

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Re: Transition to Electric Car Endeavours

#155854

Postby BobbyD » July 28th, 2018, 7:08 pm

Forking car chargers off at the meter is an interesting idea.

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Re: Transition to Electric Car Endeavours

#155882

Postby BobbyD » July 28th, 2018, 9:42 pm

Money Box Live: Electric Cars:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0bbn6yr

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Re: Transition to Electric Car Endeavours

#163942

Postby BobbyD » September 3rd, 2018, 3:15 pm

Electric Mercedes opens German assault on Tesla

STOCKHOLM/PARIS (Reuters) - Mercedes-Benz is set to unveil its much-anticipated electric SUV on Tuesday, marking the start of a German onslaught against Tesla’s (TSLA.O) dominance of the fast-growing market for premium battery cars.

Daimler-owned (DAIGn.DE) Mercedes, BMW (BMWG.DE) and Volkswagen’s (VOWG_p.DE) Audi and Porsche divisions are all gunning for the $52 billion Californian upstart ... The new Mercedes, due to reach its first customers next year, will be priced close to the fuel-burning GLC to compete in the same bracket as Tesla’s $49,000 Model 3, helped by its hotter-selling SUV form ...Like Tesla, Mercedes is announcing EQC orders in Norway even before its price. It has amassed more than 2,000 refundable deposits of 20,000 crowns ($2,400) in Europe’s biggest electric-car market, where Tesla sold 8,500 vehicles last year ...Audi on Monday began production of its e-Tron SUV ahead of a Sept. 17 sales launch jamboree in San Francisco, just 40 miles from Tesla’s Fremont assembly plant ...The e-Tron is due in showrooms early next year, followed in 2020 by two more electric Audis and the Porsche Taycan sports car.


- https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ford ... SKCN1LI0SE

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Re: Transition to Electric Car Endeavours

#219884

Postby TUK020 » May 7th, 2019, 7:14 am

Schroders blog post on uptake of EVs, and possibly where the opportunity lies for investors

https://www.schroders.com/en/uk/private ... ntent_link

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Re: Transition to Electric Car Endeavours

#220331

Postby redsturgeon » May 9th, 2019, 9:12 am

https://oilprice.com/Alternative-Energy ... tures.html

Looks like Europe is slowly waking up to the EV battery shortfall issue.

John

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Re: Transition to Electric Car Endeavours

#253008

Postby TUK020 » September 21st, 2019, 8:17 am

Article in DT:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/20 ... t-jackpot/

Four projects on the Dogger Bank – more than 60 miles out into the North Sea, and invisible even to the most outraged Nimby armed with a telescope – will have five gigawatts (GW) of capacity at a strike price ranging from £39.65 to £41.61 per megawatt/hour (MWh) from 2023 to 2024.

It seems that de-carbonisation of electricity generation is proceeding more rapidly than thought possible. The strike price implies no subsidy necessary for renewable generation.
So the big challenges that remain are grid scale storage, and the capex to upgrade the local distribution of electricity to enable all of those domestic heatpumps and EV charging points.

There are 1/3 million substations in the UK. 50% of these date from the original grid electrification more than half a century ago. Not to mention that all the roads will need to be dug up to fit uprated cables and plug in points for roadside parking.

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Re: Transition to Electric Car Endeavours

#253416

Postby odysseus2000 » September 23rd, 2019, 7:51 pm

TUK020 wrote:Article in DT:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/20 ... t-jackpot/

Four projects on the Dogger Bank – more than 60 miles out into the North Sea, and invisible even to the most outraged Nimby armed with a telescope – will have five gigawatts (GW) of capacity at a strike price ranging from £39.65 to £41.61 per megawatt/hour (MWh) from 2023 to 2024.

It seems that de-carbonisation of electricity generation is proceeding more rapidly than thought possible. The strike price implies no subsidy necessary for renewable generation.
So the big challenges that remain are grid scale storage, and the capex to upgrade the local distribution of electricity to enable all of those domestic heatpumps and EV charging points.

There are 1/3 million substations in the UK. 50% of these date from the original grid electrification more than half a century ago. Not to mention that all the roads will need to be dug up to fit uprated cables and plug in points for roadside parking.


It is almost as if there was a huge commercial opportunity waiting for entrepreneurs to find it.

Regards,

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Re: Transition to Electric Car Endeavours

#253471

Postby TUK020 » September 24th, 2019, 7:23 am

odysseus2000 wrote:
It is almost as if there was a huge commercial opportunity waiting for entrepreneurs to find it.

Regards,


Yup, Electricity Distribution Network Operators willing to take an investment risk, and loads of eastern Europeans in vans with pickaxes.

No wait, we are going to privatise the former, and have persuaded all the latter to bugger off home.

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Re: Transition to Electric Car Endeavours

#259389

Postby TUK020 » October 22nd, 2019, 7:33 am

Article in DT:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/20 ... -launches/

Highview Power has secured the go-ahead for a 50 megawatt liquid air plant in the North of England capable of offering days of fast back-up power for the grid when needed and for far longer periods than a lithium battery.

and

Highview’s Mr Cavada said the estimated cost for the first cryoenergy project is £110 per MWh. This is slightly below the levelised cost of “gas peaker” plants, which in the case of the UK rely increasingly on imported natural gas from Norway or Qatar.

But this cost falls rapidly if the hours of storage are lengthened. “We can expand very easily by just adding more tanks. The economies of scale are gigantic. The costs don’t double if the storage doubles. They go up just 10pc,” he said.


The economies of scale point is particularly important.
This, combined with the progress on costs for offshore wind, imply that the generation part of the puzzle is close to getting an economic answer.
This will put the focus back on solving the distribution part of the puzzle - digging up the roads to put in charging points.

tuk020

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Re: Transition to Electric Car Endeavours

#259722

Postby TUK020 » October 23rd, 2019, 7:32 pm

Article in the FT:
https://www.ft.com/content/9cba0522-f56 ... f8794b17c6

The UK will have to spend £240bn installing an average of 4,000 electric vehicle charging points and heat pumps a day if the government is to meet its target of cutting greenhouse gas emissions to “net zero” by 2050, according to new forecasts.

It looks more and more like the local distribution network is where the capex elephant is.......

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Re: Transition to Electric Car Endeavours

#260035

Postby TUK020 » October 25th, 2019, 7:06 am

Article in FT
https://www.ft.com/content/7c36dd38-f69 ... 9acae3b654

Cost of offshore electricity predicted to fall by 40% by 2030. Offshore to be single biggest source of generation by 2040.

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Re: Transition to Electric Car Endeavours

#260059

Postby scrumpyjack » October 25th, 2019, 8:58 am

We'll have to build a lot of these compressed air battery storage facilities then. All this could give a huge boost to the economy - I k=just hope we don't have to import all the equipment, that won't be good for our balance of payments.

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Re: Transition to Electric Car Endeavours

#260118

Postby ReallyVeryFoolish » October 25th, 2019, 12:41 pm

scrumpyjack wrote:We'll have to build a lot of these compressed air battery storage facilities then. All this could give a huge boost to the economy - I k=just hope we don't have to import all the equipment, that won't be good for our balance of payments.

If you're referring to Highview Power, I am afraid that's going to be a rather forlorn hope. (By the way, Highview Power is liquid air storage. Compressed air energy storage is presently being promoted in the UK by a company call Storelectric, who it seems have yet to actually build an energy storage plant.)

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Re: Transition to Electric Car Endeavours

#260172

Postby AJC5001 » October 25th, 2019, 3:49 pm

Article on the BBC - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49958457
Wheels of fortune? A new age for electric motors
"APC has set out a roadmap of how it sees electric motors developing; and, by 2025, it expects costs per kilowatt to almost halve, while power density triples.
"For the same amount of power they generate, they'll weigh a third as much and be one third of the package size as well. At the same time the costs will reduce," says Mr OudeNijeweme.
"The electric motor will dramatically change. I don't know how quickly, but ten years from now it will be unrecognisable from what you see today, not in how it looks - but in what it does.""

I wonder what effect that will have :)

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Re: Transition to Electric Car Endeavours

#260210

Postby odysseus2000 » October 25th, 2019, 6:45 pm

AJC5001 wrote:Article on the BBC - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49958457
Wheels of fortune? A new age for electric motors
"APC has set out a roadmap of how it sees electric motors developing; and, by 2025, it expects costs per kilowatt to almost halve, while power density triples.
"For the same amount of power they generate, they'll weigh a third as much and be one third of the package size as well. At the same time the costs will reduce," says Mr OudeNijeweme.
"The electric motor will dramatically change. I don't know how quickly, but ten years from now it will be unrecognisable from what you see today, not in how it looks - but in what it does.""

I wonder what effect that will have :)

Adrian


It would be nice if these ambitions possibilities happen: Tripling power density is more than what I have seen, but there is now a lot of world wide effort that was never before put onto batteries, halving the cost looks much more do able to me.

Also with electric motors they are currently over 80% efficient, so doesn't look to be huge upside there, unless I am missing something.

Regards,

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Re: Transition to Electric Car Endeavours

#260213

Postby odysseus2000 » October 25th, 2019, 6:47 pm

ReallyVeryFoolish wrote:
scrumpyjack wrote:We'll have to build a lot of these compressed air battery storage facilities then. All this could give a huge boost to the economy - I k=just hope we don't have to import all the equipment, that won't be good for our balance of payments.

If you're referring to Highview Power, I am afraid that's going to be a rather forlorn hope. (By the way, Highview Power is liquid air storage. Compressed air energy storage is presently being promoted in the UK by a company call Storelectric, who it seems have yet to actually build an energy storage plant.)


If you have information or links it would be interesting to know who owns Highview power and who are the competitors?

Regards,

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Re: Transition to Electric Car Endeavours

#260262

Postby ReallyVeryFoolish » October 26th, 2019, 2:10 am

odysseus2000 wrote:
ReallyVeryFoolish wrote:
scrumpyjack wrote:We'll have to build a lot of these compressed air battery storage facilities then. All this could give a huge boost to the economy - I k=just hope we don't have to import all the equipment, that won't be good for our balance of payments.

If you're referring to Highview Power, I am afraid that's going to be a rather forlorn hope. (By the way, Highview Power is liquid air storage. Compressed air energy storage is presently being promoted in the UK by a company call Storelectric, who it seems have yet to actually build an energy storage plant.)


If you have information or links it would be interesting to know who owns Highview power and who are the competitors?

Regards,

I have little information on the company beyond what's on their website https://www.highviewpower.com. If you're really interested in ownership, take a look at Companies House as a starting point. Regarding competition, that would be anyone in the grid scale energy storage business. Specifically cryogenic air storage? I am guessing nobody since there is no real market out there yet. However, the technology is very common and very well established. I imagine that any patents they hold will relate to the use of existing technology in a novel way. Having said that, power recovery from cryogenic plants is very old news. It may not be patent-able, just a new way of thinking about very old ways of doing things. In that sense, should the market suddenly explode then it is very, very simple for companies like Linde, Air Liquide or Air Products to join in. They all have the exact skill set required and could even re-purpose existing plant for this service. The bar to entry, therefore is pretty low in this business, I'd say.

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Re: Transition to Electric Car Endeavours

#260285

Postby dspp » October 26th, 2019, 11:38 am

TUK020 wrote:Article in the FT:
https://www.ft.com/content/9cba0522-f56 ... f8794b17c6

The UK will have to spend £240bn installing an average of 4,000 electric vehicle charging points and heat pumps a day if the government is to meet its target of cutting greenhouse gas emissions to “net zero” by 2050, according to new forecasts.

It looks more and more like the local distribution network is where the capex elephant is.......


Amidst all the restructuring of the large electrical utilities, you will notice that none of them are rushing to - and proclaiming that - they are bulking up on DNOs. I can't for the like of me think why that might be ....... (not) !

regards, dspp

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Re: Transition to Electric Car Endeavours

#260287

Postby dspp » October 26th, 2019, 11:45 am

ReallyVeryFoolish wrote:
odysseus2000 wrote:
ReallyVeryFoolish wrote:If you're referring to Highview Power, I am afraid that's going to be a rather forlorn hope. (By the way, Highview Power is liquid air storage. Compressed air energy storage is presently being promoted in the UK by a company call Storelectric, who it seems have yet to actually build an energy storage plant.)


If you have information or links it would be interesting to know who owns Highview power and who are the competitors?

Regards,

I have little information on the company beyond what's on their website https://www.highviewpower.com. If you're really interested in ownership, take a look at Companies House as a starting point. Regarding competition, that would be anyone in the grid scale energy storage business. Specifically cryogenic air storage? I am guessing nobody since there is no real market out there yet. However, the technology is very common and very well established. I imagine that any patents they hold will relate to the use of existing technology in a novel way. Having said that, power recovery from cryogenic plants is very old news. It may not be patent-able, just a new way of thinking about very old ways of doing things. In that sense, should the market suddenly explode then it is very, very simple for companies like Linde, Air Liquide or Air Products to join in. They all have the exact skill set required and could even re-purpose existing plant for this service. The bar to entry, therefore is pretty low in this business, I'd say.


Barriers to entry in cryogenic and/or compressed gas storage of energy are low. (Ditto by the way for all the bulk storage of low grade heat approaches).

Barriers to profitability are very high, and driven by a nasty combination of high capital costs and of poor thermodynamic cycle efficiency. The latter cannot be undone as physics doesn't care about humans.

I think - and have done so for 20 years - that this approach to energy storage will be dead-ended except in niche circumstances. The lack of take-up at any scale suggests my call is (so far) correct.

That said there are some interesting approaches that have merit in lowering the capital cost side of the equation and if there were ever any breakthroughs it would be interesting to re-examine my assumptions.

regards, dspp


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