Beyond Meat

[odysseus2000]

After the close today, the recent ipo Beyond Meat (BYND) will report it first earnings.

The equity has flown by circa four fold since its ipo and now is at $102 after its ipo in early May.

There are several competitors and Quorn has been around for decades:

https://finance.yahoo.com/m/66d62ac4-c7 ... at-to.html

The developments in meat substitutes may reflect the move to renewable energy, both offering much more sustainable production and lower prices.

It will be interesting to see what numbers BYND reports after the close tonight.

If anyone has any good or bad things to comment on BYND and/or the meat substitute market I would be interested.

Regards,

[odysseus2000]

BYND first earnings report with strong guidance very well received with shares up strongly in the after market:

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/here-wha ... 47861.html

Regards,

[vagrantbrain]

I read about this a few weeks back and mentioned it to the girlfriend who is a vegetarian, she wasn't interested. I thought it strange but she explained that she was put off eating Quorn because of the texture - reminded her of eating meat even though she actually wasn't - and so couldn't see herself eating synthetic meat. If they get the branding and image right then I can see it appealing to those who are veggie for the lifestyle rather than the morals/ethics though.

[Lootman]

It is priced at 45 times sales and isn't even healthy.

[redsturgeon]

My daughter is totally vegan for ethical reasons and does like the taste and texture of meat so often eats substitutes such as seitan...not Quorn since that is not vegan.

I have stopped eating meat and don't really go for the fake meat substitutes since I am against over processed food in general. I'd be interested in a link from Lootman to back up his assertion that Beyond meat is unhealthy. Personally as I say I am against most factory processed food but I'd imagine that a beyond meat burger is not more unhealthy than a beef burger but without the animal cruelty and less harmful to the planet.

Over the next decades we are going to have to move away from animal products like beef for the good of the planet and Beyond Meat is just an early mover in that space.

I don't know if the current share price in justified, time will tell.

John

[bungeejumper]

Maybe beetroot juice blood will catch on eventually, maybe it won't. But the technology looks to me like a leapfrog game, where somebody else's VHS will drive this company's Betamax out of the market and will then be swamped in turn by another thing entirely. I'm not sure I buy the first mover advantage thing here.

The meat alternatives market is littered with worthy and well-meaning ideas, and I've tried most of them but I wouldn't want them on my barbie. Leaving aside the cardboard texture of Quorn etc, and the lack of essential fat content, the whole idea of trying to precisely emulate something you don't approve of (meat) with something you do (plants) seems like an odd sort of tribute to your residual carnivore instincts. If I want vegetables I'll cook a ratatouille or a veg sauce, or bake something that doesn't try to resemble food that results from what some will call animal cruelty. Harrumph.

BJ

[Urbandreamer]

Maybe beetroot juice blood will catch on eventually, maybe it won't. But the technology looks to me like a leapfrog game, where somebody else's VHS will drive this company's Betamax out of the market and will then be swamped in turn by another thing entirely. I'm not sure I buy the first mover advantage thing here.

The meat alternatives market is littered with worthy and well-meaning ideas, and I've tried most of them but I wouldn't want them on my barbie. Leaving aside the cardboard texture of Quorn etc, and the lack of essential fat content, the whole idea of trying to precisely emulate something you don't approve of (meat) with something you do (plants) seems like an odd sort of tribute to your residual carnivore instincts. If I want vegetables I'll cook a ratatouille or a veg sauce, or bake something that doesn't try to resemble food that results from what some will call animal cruelty. Harrumph.

BJ

There are many other companies working on lab grown meat that you can throw on your barbie. I confess that I don't regard the idea of livestock alternatives for enviromental reasons as particularly new. Frances Moore Lappé published diet for a small planet almost 50 years ago. The subject of animal alternatives was humerously covered in a recent TED radio hour podcast. The point being that growing/producing food in a factory rather than field could make huge changes to our carbon emmissions. You don't have to object to meat to be interested in that concept.

What might be revolutionary is managing to make a profit out of these ideas, though in the rhubarb triangle we have been growing food in factories profitably for quite some time now.

[odysseus2000]

Maybe beetroot juice blood will catch on eventually, maybe it won't. But the technology looks to me like a leapfrog game, where somebody else's VHS will drive this company's Betamax out of the market and will then be swamped in turn by another thing entirely. I'm not sure I buy the first mover advantage thing here.

The meat alternatives market is littered with worthy and well-meaning ideas, and I've tried most of them but I wouldn't want them on my barbie. Leaving aside the cardboard texture of Quorn etc, and the lack of essential fat content, the whole idea of trying to precisely emulate something you don't approve of (meat) with something you do (plants) seems like an odd sort of tribute to your residual carnivore instincts. If I want vegetables I'll cook a ratatouille or a veg sauce, or bake something that doesn't try to resemble food that results from what some will call animal cruelty. Harrumph.

BJ

There are many other companies working on lab grown meat that you can throw on your barbie. I confess that I don't regard the idea of livestock alternatives for enviromental reasons as particularly new. Frances Moore Lappé published diet for a small planet almost 50 years ago. The subject of animal alternatives was humerously covered in a recent TED radio hour podcast. The point being that growing/producing food in a factory rather than field could make huge changes to our carbon emmissions. You don't have to object to meat to be interested in that concept.

What might be revolutionary is managing to make a profit out of these ideas, though in the rhubarb triangle we have been growing food in factories profitably for quite some time now.

There are many salad growing business, operating indoors and some operate beneath London in old excavations. Mush rooms have been farmed in doors for a long time.

Regards,

[Lootman]

I'd be interested in a link from Lootman to back up his assertion that Beyond meat is unhealthy.

You can start with this one:

https://ancestral-nutrition.com/beyond- ... unhealthy/

Just google "Beyond meat is unhealthy" and you will find many more. Some are produced by lobbyists for the meat industry, admittedly. But it would seem that being meatless is not the same as being healthy. If you wish to avoid meat then fine, but this is not a health and wellness product.

Nestle and other other big food companies are working on this too. I would not touch this share.

[redsturgeon]

I'd be interested in a link from Lootman to back up his assertion that Beyond meat is unhealthy.

You can start with this one:

https://ancestral-nutrition.com/beyond- ... unhealthy/

Just google "Beyond meat is unhealthy" and you will find many more. Some are produced by lobbyists for the meat industry, admittedly. But it would seem that being meatless is not the same as being healthy. If you wish to avoid meat then fine, but this is not a health and wellness product.

Nestle and other other big food companies are working on this too. I would not touch this share.

Seriously...your source is some unknown blogger, OK I wasn't expecting the New England Journal of Medicine but really.

I would however agree with the statement" being meatless is not the same as being healthy", being meatless requires considerable thought to ensure a healthy balanced diet.

Does anyone think that a beyond meat burger is " a health and wellness product'?

Sure Nestle and the other big foodies are in on this it is a huge market opportunity that they will not wish to miss.

Finally, I won't be investing in this share either, I not a great fan of companies who make no profit.

John

[Lootman]

Seriously...your source is some unknown blogger, OK I wasn't expecting the New England Journal of Medicine but really.

I would however agree with the statement" being meatless is not the same as being healthy", being meatless requires considerable thought to ensure a healthy balanced diet. I won't be investing in this share either, I not a great fan of companies who make no profit.

There were dozens of articles there. I just picked one at random. But I had heard the "5 times as much fat as a normal burger" line a number of times before looking those up.

Anyway since neither of us would touch this share with a bargepole, I don't think it matters that we might both have good but different reasons for thinking that. I am not averse to investing in a company that doesn't make a profit. I owned Amazon for a couple of years before it reported any profit. But it has to at least have some kind of moat, and a veggie burger really doesn't. Wasn't Linda McCartney flogging them 25 years ago?

[redsturgeon]

But it has to at least have some kind of moat, and a veggie burger really doesn't. Wasn't Linda McCartney flogging them 25 years ago?

She still is (well not personally if you see what I mean.)

John

[Urbandreamer]

But I had heard the "5 times as much fat as a normal burger" line a number of times before looking those up.

With respect Loot, anyone that talks about a "normal" burger should be viewed as questionable. Is a "normal" burger a frozen one from Birdseye, one from five guy's or a Fatburger? Have you considered the changes made in the meat production industry as a result of burger regulations?

You could start with the regulations that prevented the use of pork products in beef burgers. The result was a "dry" lean burger. Hence the introduction of corn fed beef to increase the fat content of the meat used in beef burgers. You could go on from there to more recent rules about the amount of allowed fat in a burger.

Some believe that 30% fat is the right amount in a burger. Others that you can get by with 20%.
According to five guy's 17g of their 94g hamburger is fat, that's a lean 18%. While if we take Birdseye original it's 25% fat.

Certainly my maths is good enough to multiply 20% by 5 and recognise that a claim of 100% fat is fairly unbeleavable, while 120-150% fat is not actually possible.

[Lootman]

Some believe that 30% fat is the right amount in a burger. Others that you can get by with 20%.
According to five guy's 17g of their 94g hamburger is fat, that's a lean 18%. While if we take Birdseye original it's 25% fat.

Certainly my maths is good enough to multiply 20% by 5 and recognise that a claim of 100% fat is fairly unbeleavable, while 120-150% fat is not actually possible.

The problem is that in general it is the fatty cuts of meat that taste better. So if you are determined to consume less fat then we end up with more tatseless meat. So it is always a trade-off. My point here was limited to the observation that whilst "Beyond Meat" is clearly targeting the "health" mob, its products are not partiularly healthy at all.

I decided over 35 years ago to greatly reduce my consumption of meat.The intention was to particularly reduce my intake of red meat but to continue with the supposedly healthier white meat. The problem is that white meat isn't necessarily healthier (bacon, for instance) and white meat that has little fat in it, like turkey, just doen't taste that good.

So these days I don't eat much meat at all, and often go weeks without eating it. But whenever I get an urge I have a steak or a burger or a Sunday roast lamb. It's better to eat less meat than to eat a lot of fake meat, in my view. I do eat seafood a lot, so don't worry too much about a lack of protein.

If you're going to go veggie then do it. But trying to reproduce meat just seems silly to me, rather like alco-free beer or decaffeinated coffee.

[redsturgeon]

I do eat seafood a lot, so don't worry too much about a lack of protein.

OMG!
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/arti ... ed-on.html

John

[Lootman]

I do eat seafood a lot, so don't worry too much about a lack of protein.

OMG!
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/arti ... ed-on.html

Ha, yeah, I used to know a guy who worked at a fish farm and he had some horror stories. It was in Wales.

Although I worry more about the top feeders than the bottom feeders. I love tuna but figure out that if I eat too much of it I will start to glow at night. Swordfish is even worse by all accounts.

It's a problem, Eat farmed fish and it has issues. Eat unfarmed fish and it's "not sustainable". You can't win.

[Urbandreamer]

It's a problem, Eat farmed fish and it has issues. Eat unfarmed fish and it's "not sustainable". You can't win.

Sound like you should be interested in this lot then.
https://finlessfoods.com/

[odysseus2000]

I am not sure the competition argument holds up.

Msft and Amazon have both tried to make smart phones and gave up as Apple wins.

Ditto for competitors to Netflix, Amazon, Ebay, Paypal,....

Imho it depends entire on how good bynd are. If they are the equivalent of some of these leading brands then other companies will struggle against them.

There was a clear mis match between the ipo price and market demand with the underwriters grossly underpricing, taking money from the company and allowing post ipo flippers to make out like bandits.

No idea how this goes from here and there will be potential pressure when the lock up ends and founders and pre-ipo investors can flog more stock.

However, for now the share price is telling me that folk believe bynd have something that folk will buy.

Regards,

[Lootman]

I am not sure the competition argument holds up.

Msft and Amazon have both tried to make smart phones and gave up as Apple wins.

Ditto for competitors to Netflix, Amazon, Ebay, Paypal,....

Imho it depends entire on how good bynd are. If they are the equivalent of some of these leading brands then other companies will struggle against them.

There was a clear mis match between the ipo price and market demand with the underwriters grossly underpricing, taking money from the company and allowing post ipo flippers to make out like bandits.

No idea how this goes from here and there will be potential pressure when the lock up ends and founders and pre-ipo investors can flog more stock.

However, for now the share price is telling me that folk believe bynd have something that folk will buy.

So how much did you put in, and at what price?

[odysseus2000]

I am not sure the competition argument holds up.

Msft and Amazon have both tried to make smart phones and gave up as Apple wins.

Ditto for competitors to Netflix, Amazon, Ebay, Paypal,....

Imho it depends entire on how good bynd are. If they are the equivalent of some of these leading brands then other companies will struggle against them.

There was a clear mis match between the ipo price and market demand with the underwriters grossly underpricing, taking money from the company and allowing post ipo flippers to make out like bandits.

No idea how this goes from here and there will be potential pressure when the lock up ends and founders and pre-ipo investors can flog more stock.

However, for now the share price is telling me that folk believe bynd have something that folk will buy.

So how much did you put in, and at what price?

Nothing so far. I am expecting the price to consolidate & will wait to see if this happens. I had the opportunity to buy it early on after the ipo, but declined as I am still not sure how folk are reacting to the product. If what they have to sell is any good there will be lots of buying opportunities. It is not something I know enough about & I need to study it more & watch the price action. If it comes up favourably I will buy it then in my usual way of small amounts not big ones.

Regards,