Donate to Remove ads

Got a credit card? use our Credit Card & Finance Calculators

Thanks to johnstevens77,Bhoddhisatva,scotia,Anonymous,Cornytiv34, for Donating to support the site

Paying for the pandemic

The Big Picture Place

Paying for the pandemic (see accompanying thread/text/spiel/thinking)

a “covid19” additional band on income tax
7
10%
a “covid19" additional item on council tax
3
4%
increase CGT or IHT
9
13%
a new wealth tax
5
7%
“Growth not taxes”
10
15%
No additional tax at all
13
19%
Something else
20
30%
 
Total votes: 67

NeilW
Lemon Slice
Posts: 760
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 4:27 pm
Has thanked: 149 times
Been thanked: 226 times

Re: Paying for the pandemic

#350308

Postby NeilW » October 24th, 2020, 3:00 pm

dealtn wrote:[
Imagine a world where all tax rates were zero.


That wouldn't be a positive tax rate would it. (Although net saving would cause the same effect, but that's an advanced topic for those who have graduated from basic geometric progressions).

And 100% is the same as no government spending at all and no transactions. But run with it and see what you have to do to actually pay taxes at that level.

Want to try again avoiding the Scarecrows this time. How about any of the infinite numbers in between the absurd ones?

Seriously either argue sensibly, or just don't respond to my posts. I haven't got time for people who don't know how to debate properly.

AsleepInYorkshire
Lemon Half
Posts: 7383
Joined: February 7th, 2017, 9:36 pm
Has thanked: 10514 times
Been thanked: 4659 times

Re: Paying for the pandemic

#350312

Postby AsleepInYorkshire » October 24th, 2020, 3:15 pm

NeilW wrote:Seriously either argue sensibly, or just don't respond to my posts. I haven't got time for people who don't know how to debate properly.

It may be worth considering that we ask for two new boards? A board where we can learn to debate properly which would allow us not to waste your valuable time. And a board dedicated to understanding Bonds and Gilts. I'd further suggest we could take a weekly examination on our understanding of this subject, with those who fail being denied access to said board.

AiY

NeilW
Lemon Slice
Posts: 760
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 4:27 pm
Has thanked: 149 times
Been thanked: 226 times

Re: Paying for the pandemic

#350314

Postby NeilW » October 24th, 2020, 3:22 pm

AsleepInYorkshire wrote:[
AiY


Do you have anything constructive to add?

Wizard
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2829
Joined: November 7th, 2016, 8:22 am
Has thanked: 68 times
Been thanked: 1029 times

Re: Paying for the pandemic

#350372

Postby Wizard » October 24th, 2020, 8:08 pm

Dod101 wrote:
Wizard wrote:
Arborbridge wrote:
Hmm. Some might think the older age group has already paid up by dying in larger numbers - and presumably passing their wealth on. ;) It seems to me this cull of the elderly does exactly what people who stoke intergenerational warfare want.

Arb.

Those that have died have paid a very high price, but they are also no longer drawing a pension. Those saved by the actions to limit the impact of Covid-19 are in a different position. If anyone had wanted a cull of the elderly the thing to do would have been to take no action to limit the impact of Covid-19, which is clearly not what has and still is happening with more than half the UK's population now under Tiers 2 or 3 restrictions.


Being in the older age group myself, I think the loss of the elderly through Covid has been much exaggerated. Many of those would have died anyway in the next year or two. The younger people who are claiming that do not seem to understand that the older ones like me are paying a very big price in that our remaining years of good health are simply being frittered away because we cannot do the things we would like to, such as having close relationships with friends, travelling to meet interesting people and seeing different places. It is true that I have saved money involuntarily but so what at my age and besides, my income is well down as a result of Covid. I doubt therefore that many in my age group are very grateful to the powers that be for taking steps to protect us in particular, even if that were true.

The point is that, as was said early on, we are all in this together and stoking what Arb has called intergenerational warfare helps no one.

Dod

Maybe there is a consensus across the ages then, simply remove all the restrictioms and get on with life as it was before 2020. That is certainly a view I head advocated at the pub last night by one 51 year old and a couple of people in their early 20s.

dealtn
Lemon Half
Posts: 6072
Joined: November 21st, 2016, 4:26 pm
Has thanked: 441 times
Been thanked: 2324 times

Re: Paying for the pandemic

#350373

Postby dealtn » October 24th, 2020, 8:16 pm

NeilW wrote:
dealtn wrote:[
Imagine a world where all tax rates were zero.


That wouldn't be a positive tax rate would it. (Although net saving would cause the same effect, but that's an advanced topic for those who have graduated from basic geometric progressions).

And 100% is the same as no government spending at all and no transactions. But run with it and see what you have to do to actually pay taxes at that level.

Want to try again avoiding the Scarecrows this time. How about any of the infinite numbers in between the absurd ones?

Seriously either argue sensibly, or just don't respond to my posts. I haven't got time for people who don't know how to debate properly.


Its called reductio ad absurdum, which is a commonly recognised form of argument. It's been used since ancient Greek times to illustrate fallacies in arguments.

How about 1% and 99%?

Let's take 1%, there will be a small tax take, more than 0%, but many billions less than we are seeing this year (and any other in the past 100 years). Let's double it to 2%, and we wouldn't be surprised if this raises approximately twice as much. That's already 3 different amounts of tax takes.

To dispute a claim that the tax rate is irrelevant and "The Chancellor cannot really alter the total tax take" you don't really need to do more.

Dod101
The full Lemon
Posts: 16629
Joined: October 10th, 2017, 11:33 am
Has thanked: 4343 times
Been thanked: 7534 times

Re: Paying for the pandemic

#350384

Postby Dod101 » October 24th, 2020, 9:56 pm

Wizard wrote:Maybe there is a consensus across the ages then, simply remove all the restrictioms and get on with life as it was before 2020. That is certainly a view I head advocated at the pub last night by one 51 year old and a couple of people in their early 20s.


I think they may be right and I suspect that that would have quite a lot of support. Our pubs are closed.

Dod

Arborbridge
The full Lemon
Posts: 10366
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:33 am
Has thanked: 3599 times
Been thanked: 5226 times

Re: Paying for the pandemic

#350439

Postby Arborbridge » October 25th, 2020, 10:09 am

Dod101 wrote:
Wizard wrote:Maybe there is a consensus across the ages then, simply remove all the restrictioms and get on with life as it was before 2020. That is certainly a view I head advocated at the pub last night by one 51 year old and a couple of people in their early 20s.


I think they may be right and I suspect that that would have quite a lot of support. Our pubs are closed.

Dod


Many people are coming to that conclusion, but I cannot make up my mind whether this is indeed good sense, or just giving in to the inevitable war-weariness that everyone must be feeling.

I took my first big risk myself yesterday, meeting a grandson and his latest girlfriend for lunch in a restaurant. It was buzzing with people, and I was quite taken aback. I haven't been in a smallish room with that many people for seven months for a couple of hours, let along been talking across a table with anyone apart from my wife. I'm a sanguine enough character, but I did think it a bit risky and daring.

In fact, I am doing three more "daring" things in the next three weeks by way of exhibitions or ballets. This probably isn't at all wise, and I'm already having second thoughts - though I'm intending to go nevertheless, until there's a lockdown. I will avoid public transport where possible my using the car or walking - having been on a bus where less than half the passengers were wearing masks.

If I go quiet between now and the end of November, it may be because I've been "zapped".


Arb.

Arborbridge
The full Lemon
Posts: 10366
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:33 am
Has thanked: 3599 times
Been thanked: 5226 times

Re: Paying for the pandemic

#350448

Postby Arborbridge » October 25th, 2020, 10:38 am

johnhemming wrote:
Arborbridge wrote:In fact, I am doing three more "daring" things in the next three weeks by way of exhibitions or ballets. This probably isn't at all wise, and I'm already having second thoughts - though I'm intending to go nevertheless, until there's a lockdown.


My recommendation generally to people is to make sure they are taking supplementary vitamin D3 and zinc (possibly 80mg per week). Zinc can stress people out hence be careful before taking a 40mg tablet, may be try part of that and if you are not particularly fat you should keep the D3 lower. I have been reducing my fat level recently and have been interested to see evidence that as a result I should take less d3.

In essence it is an issue about strengthening the immune system. One interesting point made recently was that any vaccine probably won't help people with weaker immune systems anyway. Hence strengthening the immune system is a priority.



Dilemma, horns of. I am on a very low maintenance dose of methotrexate for rheumatoid which does the opposite. Make it stronger, and I shall probably start attacking myself!

langley59
Lemon Slice
Posts: 325
Joined: November 12th, 2016, 12:12 pm
Has thanked: 120 times
Been thanked: 102 times

Re: Paying for the pandemic

#350455

Postby langley59 » October 25th, 2020, 10:54 am

johnhemming wrote:
Arborbridge wrote:In fact, I am doing three more "daring" things in the next three weeks by way of exhibitions or ballets. This probably isn't at all wise, and I'm already having second thoughts - though I'm intending to go nevertheless, until there's a lockdown.


My recommendation generally to people is to make sure they are taking supplementary vitamin D3 and zinc (possibly 80mg per week). Zinc can stress people out hence be careful before taking a 40mg tablet, may be try part of that and if you are not particularly fat you should keep the D3 lower. I have been reducing my fat level recently and have been interested to see evidence that as a result I should take less d3.

In essence it is an issue about strengthening the immune system. One interesting point made recently was that any vaccine probably won't help people with weaker immune systems anyway. Hence strengthening the immune system is a priority.


Its my belief that you need to be around other people to keep your immune system functioning. Like Arborbridge I was wary at first but since the summer have been going to the gym, meeting other people for drinks, etc in a measured way. Also like johnhemming I have been taking supplements of vitamin D3, zinc and others as well as eating a nutrient rich diet. I do think that the government should promote healthy living more than it does and in my opinion this would probably do people more good than staying inside and wearing masks outside. In fact for anyone who has spent the past 6 or 7 months indoors avoiding fresh air and sunlight, wearing an oxygen depriving mask when venturing out and taking extreme measures to avoid contact with germs their immune system is going to be sorely tested the day they do eventually emerge, vaccinated or not.

NB. I say all this as someone who is probably at a higher than average risk, being over 60 and having had breathing problems my whole life... and I don't wear a mask unless in a clinical setting.

johnhemming
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3858
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 7:13 pm
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 609 times

Re: Paying for the pandemic

#350481

Postby johnhemming » October 25th, 2020, 12:57 pm

Arborbridge wrote:Dilemma, horns of. I am on a very low maintenance dose of methotrexate for rheumatoid which does the opposite. Make it stronger, and I shall probably start attacking myself!

I don't know for certain, but it may be worth looking at 3mg per day of boron.

TUK020
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2039
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 7:41 am
Has thanked: 762 times
Been thanked: 1175 times

Re: Paying for the pandemic

#350496

Postby TUK020 » October 25th, 2020, 2:27 pm

johnhemming wrote:
Arborbridge wrote:In fact, I am doing three more "daring" things in the next three weeks by way of exhibitions or ballets. This probably isn't at all wise, and I'm already having second thoughts - though I'm intending to go nevertheless, until there's a lockdown.


My recommendation generally to people is to make sure they are taking supplementary vitamin D3 and zinc (possibly 80mg per week). Zinc can stress people out hence be careful before taking a 40mg tablet, may be try part of that and if you are not particularly fat you should keep the D3 lower. I have been reducing my fat level recently and have been interested to see evidence that as a result I should take less d3.

In essence it is an issue about strengthening the immune system. One interesting point made recently was that any vaccine probably won't help people with weaker immune systems anyway. Hence strengthening the immune system is a priority.


I'm on immunosuppressants (treatment for Crohn's). My medical consultant's advice on what I should do to help prepare myself for COVID was a) take Vit D supplements and b) lose weight.
I have heard that people who are 'institutionalised' and don't go outside much (think care home residents and prisoners) tend to be chronically deficient in Vit D, and these tend to be two segments of the population who have been most impacted by COVID.
Taking Vit D supplements is a lot easier than losing weight

TUK020
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2039
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 7:41 am
Has thanked: 762 times
Been thanked: 1175 times

Re: Paying for the pandemic

#350497

Postby TUK020 » October 25th, 2020, 2:31 pm

Paying for the pandemic:

Saving expenditure
Remove triple lock, postpone state pension age by another 2 years.

Increase taxation
+1% on all tax bands
+2% on VAT

Boost economic activity
Scrap all green belts. Automatically remove planning permission if building not completed in two years to stop land banking.

Easy.
Difficult part is getting re-elected.

Adamski
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1075
Joined: July 13th, 2020, 1:39 pm
Has thanked: 1465 times
Been thanked: 553 times

Re: Paying for the pandemic

#350498

Postby Adamski » October 25th, 2020, 2:39 pm

I take a daily multi vitamin and also a zinc tablet toward off colds. At least 15 mins out in the sunshine apparently is enough for light skinned ppl to get their vitamin D. Not that theres much sun in winter. A doctor I met socially once told me years ago that vitamin D was important in keeping you healthy. Of course taking the recommended amounts.

johnhemming
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3858
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 7:13 pm
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 609 times

Re: Paying for the pandemic

#350500

Postby johnhemming » October 25th, 2020, 2:45 pm

Adamski wrote:I take a daily multi vitamin and also a zinc tablet toward off colds. At least 15 mins out in the sunshine apparently is enough for light skinned ppl to get their vitamin D. Not that theres much sun in winter. A doctor I met socially once told me years ago that vitamin D was important in keeping you healthy. Of course taking the recommended amounts.


The recommended amount should vary depending upon a number of factors (how much fat people have, their skin colour because darker skins absorb more sunlight). My view is that the standard recommendation of 400iu is too low. Obviously the amount you need in different circumstances varies as well.

Wizard
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2829
Joined: November 7th, 2016, 8:22 am
Has thanked: 68 times
Been thanked: 1029 times

Re: Paying for the pandemic

#350583

Postby Wizard » October 25th, 2020, 8:48 pm

TUK020 wrote:Paying for the pandemic:

Saving expenditure
Remove triple lock, postpone state pension age by another 2 years.

Increase taxation
+1% on all tax bands
+2% on VAT

Boost economic activity
Scrap all green belts. Automatically remove planning permission if building not completed in two years to stop land banking.

Easy.
Difficult part is getting re-elected.

My bold.

I think that could reduce the number of houses built. We are sitting on one site with consent for three houses, replacing on derelict property. It can't be built as we have spent over two years trying to get SSEN to put an overhead cable underground. The consent expires early next year so we are actually starting work tomorrow so we get far enough forward to avoid the permission expiring, but then it will all stop again until SSEN can be persuaded to do something.

We have another site, seemingly simple, doubling the size of an existing house in the countryside. But it is a very rural location with lots of wildlife. Once you have avoided the period where you can't take down trees and busshes if there are nesting birds and the period you can't do anything to avoid disturbing hibernating bats, you have a very ljmited wjndow when you can actually start the work. If you can't line the right trades up for that window you are sitting on your hands again for close to another year.

These types of situation is far from unique in my experience.

Arborbridge
The full Lemon
Posts: 10366
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:33 am
Has thanked: 3599 times
Been thanked: 5226 times

Re: Paying for the pandemic

#350624

Postby Arborbridge » October 26th, 2020, 7:19 am

TUK020 wrote:Paying for the pandemic:

Saving expenditure
Remove triple lock, postpone state pension age by another 2 years.

Increase taxation
+1% on all tax bands
+2% on VAT

Boost economic activity
Scrap all green belts. Automatically remove planning permission if building not completed in two years to stop land banking.

Easy.
Difficult part is getting re-elected.


Very glad you won't become PM :lol: ....will you? :shock:

Arborbridge
The full Lemon
Posts: 10366
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:33 am
Has thanked: 3599 times
Been thanked: 5226 times

Re: Paying for the pandemic

#350628

Postby Arborbridge » October 26th, 2020, 7:31 am

TUK020 wrote:
I'm on immunosuppressants (treatment for Crohn's). My medical consultant's advice on what I should do to help prepare myself for COVID was a) take Vit D supplements and b) lose weight.
I have heard that people who are 'institutionalised' and don't go outside much (think care home residents and prisoners) tend to be chronically deficient in Vit D, and these tend to be two segments of the population who have been most impacted by COVID.
Taking Vit D supplements is a lot easier than losing weight


I'm probably OK for vit D as I spend time walking or outside in the garden. As for losing weight, I lost it using the 5:2 diet that Michael Mosley promoted on TV. The big advantage is that I can eat well or even extravagantly, and know that two pseudo-fast days a week will control it. After the initial weight loss, I have not been strict about the fast days - they are more diet days - but it's enough to have kept me stable.

I see from my weight chart, it's been 8 years this November and my weight has been stable for seven years. Keeping a chart helps - it draws the eye to any problems and a visual reminder of progress. Interesting to see blips at Christmas, holidays or family visits which are then dealt with later.

Arb.


Return to “Macro and Global Topics”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests