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Global supply chains and the fall of the 'worlds factory'

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Itsallaguess
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Global supply chains and the fall of the 'worlds factory'

#618262

Postby Itsallaguess » October 2nd, 2023, 8:50 am


Some months ago when I was considering a parking space for some unsheltered capital, I decided on a split between some short-dated, low-coupon Index Linked Gilts (TR24) and JPMorgan Indian Investment Trust (JII).

The rational behind the short-dated IL gilts for unsheltered capital has been well-covered elsewhere on these boards, and that March 2024 dated tranch of TR24 will mature to drop into my 2024 ISA allowance with a fairly well-timed alignment.

The other half of my unsheltered capital that I was wanting a longer-term market-facing home for went into JPMorgan Indian Investment Trust (JII), with the following rational -

  • JII doesn't pay any dividends, and so will not impact my existing unsheltered dividend-income allowance, which is being actively managed down to continue ducking under the rapidly lowering tax-free dividend allowance of £1000 this year, and £500 from April 2024.
  • India is one of the fastest growing major economies, with expectations of around 7% per year for medium-term forecasts.
  • India has a growing, young demographic, with a strong work ethic and rising aspirations.
  • India has a very cheap workforce when looking at global comparators.
  • India might well be seen to be a 'safer alternative' for global outsourcing when compared to China, who might be perceived to have a riskier profile moving forwards.

This morning the Telegraph has an article discussing how China, the 'worlds factory', now faces issues where global supply chains are looking to move out of what might now be perceived to be a riskier and more expensive manufacturing market, and the article contains a chart of global wage comparisons -


Image


The Telegraph article, which also covers benefits that Eastern Europe are also seeing from a trend away from Chinese manufacturing, can be accessed using the link below -

What the fall of the ‘world’s factory’ means for global supply chains -

China has long revelled in its role as the “world’s factory” but its dominance may be coming to an end.

Amid a rising tide of cost pressures, as well as president Xi Jinping taking a more hostile stance towards the West, chief executives are becoming increasingly keen to shorten their supply chains.

An American Chamber of Commerce survey in August found 40pc of US companies are already redirecting investment destined for China to other countries, or are planning to do so.

However, the US is not alone in moving away from China, as the president of one Japanese chip maker said that exporting from the country is just “no longer viable”.

Already, huge companies such as Apple, Dell, Microsoft and Nike have announced plans to shift production to the likes of Mexico, Vietnam, India and Thailand.


https://archive.ph/aE7i1

As an income-investor primarily, I do also look out for zero or low-yield opportunities for some allocations of my unsheltered capital, and focussing on the Indian market with part of that approach ticks a lot of boxes for me, where a medium to long-term return of around 6% would deliver on the capital-returns that I'm looking for with this chunk of cash.

Whilst in some areas India perhaps has some way to go in terms of becoming more aligned with established Western social and democratic values, I think the signs are there that there's a willingness to do so, within a young, hard-working, and vibrantly growing society that is looking to develop into one of the worlds future super-powers, and as the above article suggests, global supply chains looking for non-Chinese landing zones are likely to see India as a high-value candidate.

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

Tedx
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Re: Global supply chains and the fall of the 'worlds factory'

#618267

Postby Tedx » October 2nd, 2023, 9:06 am

Already, huge companies such as Apple, Dell, Microsoft and Nike have announced plans to shift production to the likes of Mexico, Vietnam, India and Thailand.

Once the west has exhausted those countries, we have the whole continent of Africa to make stuff for us. That should keep us going until the robots take over. Once they start demanding more money though then what? I'll be long dead by then though.....

88V8
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Re: Global supply chains and the fall of the 'worlds factory'

#618284

Postby 88V8 » October 2nd, 2023, 10:18 am

Itsallaguess wrote:‎...a chart of global wage comparisons ...

Chart... how things change. Where is Taiwan? A lot of stuff used to be made in Taiwan, and last time I looked they still made rather a lot of chips... have they been disappeared for political reasons?
Also of course, there was Hong Kong.

Not hard to see why we are uncompetitive at our wage costs, but how on earth does Germany maintain such a manufacturing sector?

India is no friend of the West. An interesting parking place for your money, I hope it works out.

V8

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Re: Global supply chains and the fall of the 'worlds factory'

#618305

Postby odysseus2000 » October 2nd, 2023, 11:25 am

The Telegraph article is challenged, like it was written by chatGPT.

The cost per hour as presented suggests that Germany (US is not shown) would be unable to make anything at a competitive prices and yet it remains a major manufacturer of goods of all kinds including lots of cars.

The low cost of labour in China suggests there would be no market for expensive consumer goods like electric cars and yet it is the largest market for folk buying electric cars.

There are many problems with the analysis that include the lack of capability to manufacture stuff, both at a technology level and a human educational level and at an entrepreneurial society level.

If average earnings were an important parameter in manufacturing, Tesla would not exist as US labour costs are high compared to many of the developing nations.

India is an interesting situation. The demographics and increasing prosperity make it an interesting market, one that Apple see as a major source of revenue. However, India does not seem to have the same entrepreneurial spirit that is strongly present in China and has for example not welcomed Tesla but has required that for Tesla to sell cars there without excessive import taxes they must build factories there.

ChatGPT type analysis is often good for selling media articles, but for deploying capital it has serious limitations.

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Itsallaguess
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Re: Global supply chains and the fall of the 'worlds factory'

#618321

Postby Itsallaguess » October 2nd, 2023, 12:57 pm

odysseus2000 wrote:
ChatGPT type analysis is often good for selling media articles, but for deploying capital it has serious limitations.


Perhaps wishing to view the world through a prism of one-eyed, Tesla-focussed granularity also carries some risk too, however...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

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Re: Global supply chains and the fall of the 'worlds factory'

#618326

Postby ReformedCharacter » October 2nd, 2023, 1:13 pm

odysseus2000 wrote:However, India does not seem to have the same entrepreneurial spirit...

I wonder if you have visited India Ody? Indians must be the most entrepreneurial people in the world.

RC

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Re: Global supply chains and the fall of the 'worlds factory'

#618328

Postby odysseus2000 » October 2nd, 2023, 1:18 pm

Itsallaguess wrote:
odysseus2000 wrote:
ChatGPT type analysis is often good for selling media articles, but for deploying capital it has serious limitations.


Perhaps wishing to view the world through a prism of one-eyed, Tesla-focussed granularity also carries some risk too, however...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess


I gave arguments as to why the article was misleading.

Were my arguments wrong?

Regards,

odysseus2000
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Re: Global supply chains and the fall of the 'worlds factory'

#618331

Postby odysseus2000 » October 2nd, 2023, 1:27 pm

ReformedCharacter wrote:
odysseus2000 wrote:However, India does not seem to have the same entrepreneurial spirit...

I wonder if you have visited India Ody? Indians must be the most entrepreneurial people in the world.

RC


Yes on a personal level Indian people are entrepreneurial, but as a society they have so far not embraced manufacturing on the scale of China, or Japan before China.

Tesla have been trying to sell cars there but are facing very heavy import taxes & the Indian politicians want Tesla to invest billions before possibly reducing taxes.

The individual entrepreneurial instincts can be trumped by clueless politicians. The UK was once a leading manufacturer, but the politicians & unions wrecked many uk manufacturing business & lots of the Indian elite were educated in the uk & India has lots of uk relics within its political & legislative processes.

India will hopefully emerge as a super power, but it will need inspirational political leadership as happened in China under Deng Shao Ping.

India is showing some exciting things like the recent moon landings, but to prosper it need a large multi national economy.


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Re: Global supply chains and the fall of the 'worlds factory'

#618334

Postby servodude » October 2nd, 2023, 1:36 pm

88V8 wrote:
Itsallaguess wrote:‎...a chart of global wage comparisons ...

Chart... how things change. Where is Taiwan? A lot of stuff used to be made in Taiwan, and last time I looked they still made rather a lot of chips... have they been disappeared for political reasons?

I believe it's off the coast of China but we ain't allowed to mention it. :roll:
The invasion of Ukraine and it's disruption (including via sanctions of Russia) of the supply chains for oil, gas and wheat etc would be almost trivial in comparison if there were a move on Taiwan.
It would put just about everything in the planet back a couple of decades because of their position as chip manufacturers
- but we'll ignore that for convenience, in the same way we'll lay the carbon footprint of China at their doorstep as if all their tat is for internal consumption (and they're not about to hit "peak coal")
The facts ain't politically useful - so we'll all concentrate on the bit that looks shiny and agreeable and ignore the other half
(Much like focusing on the just the tax take and ignoring the lack of service returned :( )

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Re: Global supply chains and the fall of the 'worlds factory'

#618343

Postby odysseus2000 » October 2nd, 2023, 2:07 pm

servodude wrote:
88V8 wrote:Chart... how things change. Where is Taiwan? A lot of stuff used to be made in Taiwan, and last time I looked they still made rather a lot of chips... have they been disappeared for political reasons?

I believe it's off the coast of China but we ain't allowed to mention it. :roll:
The invasion of Ukraine and it's disruption (including via sanctions of Russia) of the supply chains for oil, gas and wheat etc would be almost trivial in comparison if there were a move on Taiwan.
It would put just about everything in the planet back a couple of decades because of their position as chip manufacturers
- but we'll ignore that for convenience, in the same way we'll lay the carbon footprint of China at their doorstep as if all their tat is for internal consumption (and they're not about to hit "peak coal")
The facts ain't politically useful - so we'll all concentrate on the bit that looks shiny and agreeable and ignore the other half
(Much like focusing on the just the tax take and ignoring the lack of service returned :( )


There is a school of thought that Taiwan will become part of China via legal maneuvers, very like how Hong Kong became part of China & was then assimilated into the Chinese communist way of doing things.

Apparently there are many legal options for recombining Taiwan with China with Taiwan being guaranteed autonomy as a province in the process with large injections of Chinese money to soothe the Taiwan elite and with Taiwan politicians in favor of unification being well rewarded by China.


If it comes to a shooting war then Taiwan needs the US to help them or they would necessarily fail quickly & who trusts the US to send its young troops to die fighting for Taiwan.


It is a dangerous situation & the us has so far shown that it will not send troops to Ukraine.


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Re: Global supply chains and the fall of the 'worlds factory'

#618352

Postby Tedx » October 2nd, 2023, 2:36 pm

China knows it would lose badly to the US if it invaded Taiwan. People bang on about Chinese military technology without ever seeing it being used in anger. But we can compare aircraft carriers - and China's efforts are nothing more than a pile of ex Soviet junk. I doubt they will ever get near to true blue water capability and as for carrying 90 combat aircraft like the Americans, they can barely carry 12 MiG copies on a ski ramp.

And look at their space tech. More Soviet replicas ( (albeit reliable replicas...but still) whereas the Americans have private companies launching (and recovering) rockets several times a month.

...and you can bet your bottom dollar Taiwan is bristling with American made anti Chinese missiles (and we know from Ukraine that it's much easier to defend than attack) - even more so across water.

Add in several dozen American nuclear attack submarines & half a dozen carrier groups plus any local allies that feel like joining in and giving the Chinese a bit of a kicking. And the current Western tech squeeze that's being put on China will hamper it's speed of future development.

No I don't think the Chinese will try to take Taiwan by force.

The diplomatic option now....well that has more promise. Lets say the Americans get all the sensitive TSMC out of there and relocated to nice fluffy western countries and Xi decides it's time for a closer relationship wth the west because his economy is tanking, then I can see some bargaining chips being put on the table.

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Re: Global supply chains and the fall of the 'worlds factory'

#618366

Postby AsleepInYorkshire » October 2nd, 2023, 3:54 pm

Tedx wrote:No I don't think the Chinese will try to take Taiwan by force.

The cost in loss of Chinese life would be horrific. There are only 7 areas along Taiwan's coastline where landings could be achieved. The South China Seas are pretty rough and only really allow crossing for the sort of vessels concerned at two times of the year. The Chinese do not have sufficient landing ships to speak of and would rely on civilian vessels to augment. Even if the Chinese vessels weren't sunk by Taiwanese submarines, sea drones, mines and aircraft they would be coming ashore at heavily defended areas.

And as you've pointed out there are so many other variables as to make it nothing more than another card in the deck that is global politics and a bargaining chip at a larger game.

AiY(D)


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