Musk endeavours

[odysseus2000]

Sorry. Should have read google does NOT operate in China

Regards,

[BobbyD]

Wikipedia lists China as a current communist state:

Well it must be true if an online webpage which can be edited by literally anybody on the planet with unrestricted access to the internet says so...

But if that's your rabbit hole of choice follow it all the way...

A Communist state (sometimes referred to as workers' state) is a state that is administered and governed by a single party, guided by Marxist–Leninist philosophy, with the aim of achieving communism.

- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_state

In political and social sciences, communism (from Latin communis, "common, universal")[1][2] is the philosophical, social, political, and economic ideology and movement whose ultimate goal is the establishment of the communist society, which is a socioeconomic order structured upon the common ownership of the means of production and the absence of social classes, money[3][4] and the state.[5][6]

- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

The Chinese government is no longer

structured upon the common ownership of the means of production and the absence of social classes, money[3][4] and the state.[5][6]

China is now so open & free that all kind of discussion is allowed, apart from anything the Chinese government can't monitor & so Google does operate in China & various other aspects of a free society are also suppressed. Sure it may be advanced communism, but it is still communism.

Regards

Communism is not the only form of non-open government. A lack of openness is not the only requirement to be Communist. Facist governments of the 30's and 40's for example were neither open nor Communist. The Chinese government is totalitarian, it is not bent on the eradication of money and private ownership.

Google has a new china search engine in beta.

[odysseus2000]

BobbyDCommunism is not the only form of non-open government. A lack of openness is not the only requirement to be Communist. Facist governments of the 30's and 40's for example were neither open nor Communist. The Chinese government is totalitarian, it is not bent on the eradication of money and private ownership.

The fact that a government has allowed some folk to get wealthy is not a sign that it is not communist. There were many wealthy people in Russian following the end of the cold war and one could have argued that it had gone capitalist. But then Putin came and the rich folk mostly lost their brass or worse and Russia is again a centrally planned economy where entrepreneurs don't get to keep their dosh and luxuries.

China may have broken the mould but it may not and for now it is in effect a one party state that has currently allowed some folk to make a few bob, whether that happy situation continues or ends no one knows.

China is currently in no way like a capitalist country.

Regards,

[BobbyD]

BobbyDCommunism is not the only form of non-open government. A lack of openness is not the only requirement to be Communist. Facist governments of the 30's and 40's for example were neither open nor Communist. The Chinese government is totalitarian, it is not bent on the eradication of money and private ownership.

The fact that a government has allowed some folk to get wealthy is not a sign that it is not communist. There were many wealthy people in Russian following the end of the cold war and one could have argued that it had gone capitalist. But then Putin came and the rich folk mostly lost their brass or worse and Russia is again a centrally planned economy where entrepreneurs don't get to keep their dosh and luxuries.

China may have broken the mould but it may not and for now it is in effect a one party state that has currently allowed some folk to make a few bob, whether that happy situation continues or ends no one knows.

China is currently in no way like a capitalist country.

Regards,

What it is like is not the point, what it isn't is communist.

[odysseus2000]

BobbyD
What it is like is not the point, what it isn't is communist.

As with many other things we will have to agree to disagree.

Regards,

[odysseus2000]

SEC case against MUSK:

https://assets.bwbx.io/documents/users/ ... sUHniuA/v0

imho it is weak for reasons discussed previously.

However, I doubt Tesla stock will escape and the after hours move is likely imho just the first in a set of declines that may bring in a buyer.

Regards,

[onthemove]

SEC case against MUSK:

https://assets.bwbx.io/documents/users/ ... sUHniuA/v0

imho it is weak for reasons discussed previously.

Yup, a fit and proper person would choose an offer price for a takeover on the basis that...

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... ny-private

"...he rounded the price up to $420 because he had recently learned about the number’s significance in marijuana culture and thought his girlfriend ‘would find it funny, which admittedly is not a great reason to pick a price."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45672813

"The statements "created the misleading impression that taking Tesla private was subject only to Mr Musk choosing to do so and a shareholder vote", according to the SEC complaint, which was filed on Thursday in federal court in New York."

That was the impression I got when he said "funding secured". Far from being weak, it looks hard to argue against the filing imho.

[BobbyD]

NATURE OF PROCEEDING AND RELIEF SOUGHT
7. The Commission brings this action against Musk pursuant to Section 21(d) of the
Exchange Act [15 U.S.C. § 78u(d)] to enjoin the transactions, acts, practices, and courses of
business alleged in this Complaint and to seek orders of disgorgement, along with prejudgment
interest, civil penalties, and an officer and director bar against Musk, and such further relief as
the Court may deem appropriate.

- https://assets.bwbx.io/documents/users/ ... sUHniuA/v0

Only down 12% in after hours...

Wonder what happens to the price if they do bounce Musk.

[BobbyD]

“Elon is Tesla and Tesla is Elon and that’s great when Elon is scoring touchdowns and grand slams but not so great when there are negative things tied to him,” said Karl Brauer, executive publisher at Kelley Blue Book. “I don’t know how you spin an SEC lawsuit that seeks to remove you from leadership of your own company.”

At that point it's probably time to stop spinning and put on the grown up trousers.

- https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesl ... SKCN1M72OI

[odysseus2000]

Interesting how Musk apparently rejected a settlement with the SEC at the last moment and how the board are behind him. If all of this WSJ article is true it makes for an interesting game of poker and one wonders who has what up their sleeves:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/elon-musk- ... yURL_share

The only clarity I can see is that if Musk can bring up someone who says he gave Musk a verbal agreement to buy Tesla the SEC case collapses.

Failing something dramatic like that it could end up in a series of complex legalities and appeal after appeal.

None of this makes it easy for traders/investors. The case could flounder quickly or go on for a very long time as did a similar thing with Marc Cuban and during all of this it is likely that the share price will be very volatile.

On a simple analysis existing longs might dump all their holdings at the open and switch into something else while shorts will be borrowing any share they can get, but should the price then start to recover it will make for a murderously emotional market.

Regards,

[odysseus2000]

If the claims for this battery technology are true it is a significant improvement over current Lithium technology:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/26/busi ... power.html

Regards,

Hat tip to smartertrader on twitter for link

[Howard]

Sadly this situation could be summed up as - unreliable cars and unreliable CEO.

One has to be very brave to invest and even braver to now buy a new Tesla. This doesn't do much good for the Tesla brand.

regards

Howard

[odysseus2000]

SEC apparently offered Musk a good deal.

No idea if the terms discussed here were offered:

https://www.cnbc.com/video/2018/09/28/m ... ramer.html

If this was the deal and Musk turned it down, he is either stupid or he has aces up his sleeves.

Regards,

[Itsallaguess]

he is either stupid or he has aces up his sleeves.

Might he be stupid for even needing any aces up his sleeves?

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[odysseus2000]

he is either stupid or he has aces up his sleeves.

Might he be stupid for even needing any aces up his sleeves?

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

If for example he had funding talks under a non-disclosure agreement he would not have been able to disclose it, but may now have got permission to divulge.

I have no idea what has happened, but Musk seems unconcerned. It may be all poker or not, I don't know.

In a somewhat similar situation Mark Cuban was eventually cleared of any wrong doing even though many experts pronounced that he was guilty.

Adding to the mix are the coming, maybe over the weekend, sales figures for Tesla. If these are profitable the need to raise cash falls away which ought to support the share price although not necessarily raise it.

There are so many plots and sub-plots here that it is very difficult to make any kind of logical decision. This isn't stopping a lot in the media, but who cares what a lot of journos type.

Regards,

[BobbyD]

he is either stupid or he has aces up his sleeves.

Might he be stupid for even needing any aces up his sleeves?

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

Are you suggesting that big oil and legacy auto didn't make him send that tweet?

[IanSmithISA]

Good afternoon,

If the claims for this battery technology are true it is a significant improvement over current Lithium technology:

In Formula E motor racing Williams Advanced Engineering used to supply the battery packs, they are believed to be lithium-ion and needed a car change mid event.

From next season McLaren Applied Technology are the supplier and they have pretty much doubled battery capacity using aluminium-ion technology and there will be no mid race change.

In some quarters there is a certain amount of ill will and scepticism about the aluminium-ion batterys but once upon a time we all cycled to school with NiCads and bike lights that didn't light anything.

Aluminium-ion is well known tech, but believed to be flawed, however a few millions can change that and motor sport does burn money and sometimes come up with good ideas.

In the context of the Tesla/Panasonic battery factory and Tesla I don't see this as greatly significant.

Sure Tesla have benefited from not having hundreds of millions invested in both R&D and production of ICEs and there will be costs if there is a battery tech upgrade but that won't affect the essence of Tesla or the Panasonic battery production line.

Assuming of course that there is a Tesla.

Bye

Ian

[PeterGray]

but once upon a time we all cycled to school with NiCads and bike lights that didn't light anything.

NiCads!! You young ones don't know how good you had it. We had to make do with zinc carbon - proper batteries, that lasted about one or two trips home and leaked and destroyed your lights if you forgot to change them. Those were the days!

Peter

[odysseus2000]

Good afternoon,

If the claims for this battery technology are true it is a significant improvement over current Lithium technology:

In Formula E motor racing Williams Advanced Engineering used to supply the battery packs, they are believed to be lithium-ion and needed a car change mid event.

From next season McLaren Applied Technology are the supplier and they have pretty much doubled battery capacity using aluminium-ion technology and there will be no mid race change.

In some quarters there is a certain amount of ill will and scepticism about the aluminium-ion batterys but once upon a time we all cycled to school with NiCads and bike lights that didn't light anything.

Aluminium-ion is well known tech, but believed to be flawed, however a few millions can change that and motor sport does burn money and sometimes come up with good ideas.

In the context of the Tesla/Panasonic battery factory and Tesla I don't see this as greatly significant.

Sure Tesla have benefited from not having hundreds of millions invested in both R&D and production of ICEs and there will be costs if there is a battery tech upgrade but that won't affect the essence of Tesla or the Panasonic battery production line.

Assuming of course that there is a Tesla.

Bye

Ian

It all comes down to storage per $, reliability & convenience.

There are multitude of potential battery technologies being developed in Laboratories around the world. If you read some of these you get to thinking that some of these new technologies will be so much better than lithium that who ever makes practical devices will rule the world.

The age old trouble is can one go from laboratory scale to industrial scale and make a practical product at a competitive price. In many cases the only way to find out is to try and the New York Times article implies this guy has tried and done it. If so it is potentially very significant, but it still has to be shown that it can be used for automotive applications if it is to replace lithium ion in cars. The article focuses on storage so it may not be a lithium battery killer.

Whether if any of the technology from solid state, super capacitors, aluminium... etc will be practically better than lithium we will have to wait.

My only certainty is that internal combustion engines and fuel cells are becoming obsolete for vehicle propulsion but not everyone agrees.

Regards,

[odysseus2000]

but once upon a time we all cycled to school with NiCads and bike lights that didn't light anything.

NiCads!! You young ones don't know how good you had it. We had to make do with zinc carbon - proper batteries, that lasted about one or two trips home and leaked and destroyed your lights if you forgot to change them. Those were the days!

Peter

Lets not also forget the tungsten filament bulbs that gave off very little light and could be a pain to keep connected and then came the xenon ones that cost a fortune and weren't that great.

Led lights are so much more efficient and bright and last for very many cycling trips even if used with zinc carbon batteries and are
incredible with lithium ion, the sun at these northern latitudes being enough to charge the batteries for very long cycle rides on many days of the year.

Regards,