Musk endeavours

[BobbyD]

Ha Ha.

The ID3 requires that you turn on regenerative braking as they believe most of their customers want to drive a BEV like they drive an ICE, i.e. without regenerative braking. Didn't you watch the Munro videos?

If you're confusion is genuine and not desperate floundering this might help, although it doesn't contain anything which hasn't been spelt out to you in excruciating detail multiple times:




- https://www.volkswagen-newsroom.com/en/ ... ncept-6658

[odysseus2000]

BobbyD
If you're confusion is genuine and not desperate floundering this might help, although it doesn't contain anything which hasn't been spelt out to you in excruciating detail multiple times:

This is a perfect example of where VW are.

The first line says: "The driver takes their foot off the gas"

There is no gas!

Yes, the process of regen-braking in the VW begins only when the driver puts their foot on the brake, not when the driver takes their foot off the accelerator.

The graphic then goes on about the rear wheel braking and that in many situations argues that regen is enough, but if not one has rear friction brakes.

The graphic totally ignores the front brakes, despite the basic physics that to stop quickly as in an emergency most the braking will be via the front wheels.

This is a terrible graphic for anyone trying to understand how a BEV is slowed down, especially in an emergency situation.

Why does the graphic not discuss front brakes? It is as though the ID4 has no front brakes.

Regards,

[odysseus2000]

Tricking a Model y into driving with no one in the drivers seat:

https://seekingalpha.com/news/3684666-t ... king_alpha

This needs attention!

Regards,

[odysseus2000]

When playing with a new toy it is easy to become over influenced with its features and to feel that anyone who doesn't have the new toy must be missing out in their understanding

Um, that sounds an awful lot like you talking about Telsa, to be brutally honest.

I do NOT have a Tesla or a BEV. I drive a 2002 Volvo V70 diesel.

Regards,

[Howard]

In the meantime in China, Tesla's inattention to quality service is producing some damaging publicity.

"Tesla scrambled into damage-control mode, asking the online news outlet to withdraw the report, the outlet said on Tuesday on WeChat.

'INSINCERE' APOLOGY

Tesla issued a series of increasingly contrite late-night statements, from Monday's "no compromise" to Tuesday's "apology and self-inspection." By Wednesday night, Tesla said it was "working with regulators for investigation."

regards

Howard

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos- ... 021-04-22/

[odysseus2000]

In the meantime in China, Tesla's inattention to quality service is producing some damaging publicity.

"Tesla scrambled into damage-control mode, asking the online news outlet to withdraw the report, the outlet said on Tuesday on WeChat.

'INSINCERE' APOLOGY

Tesla issued a series of increasingly contrite late-night statements, from Monday's "no compromise" to Tuesday's "apology and self-inspection." By Wednesday night, Tesla said it was "working with regulators for investigation."

regards

Howard

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos- ... 021-04-22/

So the Chinese are learning about how to spread FUD, shame on them!

Regards,

[BobbyD]

There is no gas!

J.H.C...

Yes, the process of regen-braking in the VW begins only when the driver puts their foot on the brake, not when the driver takes their foot off the accelerator.

There we go... so not only is the regen always 'turned on' in the VW contrary to your claims, but the default set up is to coast which is more efficient...

The graphic then goes on about the rear wheel braking and that in many situations argues that regen is enough, but if not one has rear friction brakes.

The graphic totally ignores the front brakes, despite the basic physics that to stop quickly as in an emergency most the braking will be via the front wheels.

This is a terrible graphic for anyone trying to understand how a BEV is slowed down, especially in an emergency situation.

Why does the graphic not discuss front brakes? It is as though the ID4 has no front brakes.

The text refers to 'braking and drive systems ensuring that rear wheels always have good traction' and 'the conventional brakes' it doesn't explicitly mention the front or rear breaks.

You really are beyond help Ody.

[BobbyD]

In the meantime in China, Tesla's inattention to quality service is producing some damaging publicity.

"Tesla scrambled into damage-control mode, asking the online news outlet to withdraw the report, the outlet said on Tuesday on WeChat.

'INSINCERE' APOLOGY

Tesla issued a series of increasingly contrite late-night statements, from Monday's "no compromise" to Tuesday's "apology and self-inspection." By Wednesday night, Tesla said it was "working with regulators for investigation."

regards

Howard

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos- ... 021-04-22/

I thought Musk had the Chinese government in his pocket and being a debtor was far superior to being a long-term partner?

[dealtn]

Why does the graphic not discuss front brakes? It is as though the ID4 has no front brakes.

Regards,

Er because its a graphic about energy recuperation and not about braking. Crazily enough the clue is in the big bold heading.

Now if it was a graphic with a big bold heading on "The Way The Car Uses its Brakes" and didn't mention the front, or rear, brakes you might have a point and a valid omission.

If you look carefully you might notice the graphic also doesn't show a steering wheel, or any seats too. It's as if it doesn't have those either!

[odysseus2000]

BobbyD
There we go... so not only is the regen always 'turned on' in the VW contrary to your claims, but the default set up is to coast which is more efficient...

If default is to coast, then regain is not always turned on.

Regards,

[odysseus2000]

dealtn
Er because its a graphic about energy recuperation and not about braking. Crazily enough the clue is in the big bold heading.

Now if it was a graphic with a big bold heading on "The Way The Car Uses its Brakes" and didn't mention the front, or rear, brakes you might have a point and a valid omission.

If you look carefully you might notice the graphic also doesn't show a steering wheel, or any seats too. It's as if it doesn't have those either!

Regen only works to a point, if the driver needs to stop quickly then he/she needs the front brakes.

A graphic about regen ought to mention what happens when regen braking isn't enough.

Regards,

[odysseus2000]

BobbyD
The text refers to 'braking and drive systems ensuring that rear wheels always have good traction' and 'the conventional brakes' it doesn't explicitly mention the front or rear breaks.

Are VW so confident of their drivers that they will never be in a situation when they don't have good traction and need to stop or slow down that exceeds the capability of the rear brakes?

Its like everything else with the ID4, VW treat their buyers as children who can't understand anything but the most simplified system possible.

Regards,

[dealtn]

dealtn
Er because its a graphic about energy recuperation and not about braking. Crazily enough the clue is in the big bold heading.

Now if it was a graphic with a big bold heading on "The Way The Car Uses its Brakes" and didn't mention the front, or rear, brakes you might have a point and a valid omission.

If you look carefully you might notice the graphic also doesn't show a steering wheel, or any seats too. It's as if it doesn't have those either!

Regen only works to a point, if the driver needs to stop quickly then he/she needs the front brakes.

A graphic about regen ought to mention what happens when regen braking isn't enough.

Regards,

No. A graphic about braking ought to mention what happens when regen braking isn't enough!

[BobbyD]

BobbyD
There we go... so not only is the regen always 'turned on' in the VW contrary to your claims, but the default set up is to coast which is more efficient...

If default is to coast, then regain is not always turned on.

Regards,

Even you must know that isn't true.

[BobbyD]

BobbyD
The text refers to 'braking and drive systems ensuring that rear wheels always have good traction' and 'the conventional brakes' it doesn't explicitly mention the front or rear breaks.

Are VW so confident of their drivers that they will never be in a situation when they don't have good traction and need to stop or slow down that exceeds the capability of the rear brakes?

Its like everything else with the ID4, VW treat their buyers as children who can't understand anything but the most simplified system possible.

Regards,

It doesn't mention the rear brakes, it mentions maintaining traction for the drive wheels.

Obviously VW haven't yet hit on a diagram simple enough to get their message across to some.

[odysseus2000]

BobbyD
There we go... so not only is the regen always 'turned on' in the VW contrary to your claims, but the default set up is to coast which is more efficient...

If default is to coast, then regain is not always turned on.

Regards,

Even you must know that isn't true.

No, if default is to coast then there is no regenerative braking.

If regen is turned on, the moment you reduce accelerator pressure you feel the regen braking which is how Tesla are normally operated.

Regards,

[Howard]

If default is to coast, then regain is not always turned on.

Regards,

Even you must know that isn't true.

No, if default is to coast then there is no regenerative braking.

If regen is turned on, the moment you reduce accelerator pressure you feel the regen braking which is how Tesla are normally operated.

Regards,

Ody

I'd stop now (pun intended ).

You obviously haven't driven a BEV and only have a rudimentary theoretical idea of how they behave under braking.

The BEVs I have driven allow the driver to adjust the amount of regenerative braking just like a Tesla. They do it in slightly different ways but the principle is the same.

To understand the feel of a BEV's braking behaviour, it would be a good idea to do some practical research by actually driving one or two. And then let us know how you got on.

The conversation above is a bit like someone who has only used a Nokia phone made in the last century trying to understand how a new Apple iPhone behaves.

regards

Howard

[odysseus2000]

Ody

I'd stop now (pun intended ).

You obviously haven't driven a BEV and only have a rudimentary theoretical idea of how they behave under braking.

The BEVs I have driven allow the driver to adjust the amount of regenerative braking just like a Tesla. They do it in slightly different ways but the principle is the same.

To understand the feel of a BEV's braking behaviour, it would be a good idea to do some practical research by actually driving one or two. And then let us know how you got on.

The conversation above is a bit like someone who has only used a Nokia phone made in the last century trying to understand how a new Apple iPhone behaves.

regards

Howard

Ha Ha, my first experience of regenerative breaking was on a coach over 30 years ago. In that system it was engaged by the driver pushing an indicator like stalk that connected a generator into the system operated in reverse so as to slow the coach. The electrical energy produced was dissipated as heat and the driver could control the amount of retardation by how far he pushed the stick.

This was an old system then as there had been numerous advances in anti-lock brakes, traction control and all the other stuff that happens invisibly to most users.

The VW diagram and explanation is designed for 8 year olds which is probably what VW imagine many of their punters ability to understand is. It does their customers a huge disservice to dumb things down to this level, but VW are steadfast in trying to sell Ice cars and making their BEV as like an ICE car as possible. This is why the default is coast, and the regenerative braking only comes on when one presses the brake. This is identical to what one experiences in an ICE car.

Sure these options can be adjusted but VW assume their punters want ICE like behaviour and that is why the car is delivered with coast as the option per Munro's video.

I find it amusing that you believe it is not possible to understand how something works without having one and playing with it. A lot of the things I work on are impossible to experience and one has to work out what will happen and make sure the machine is sufficiently robust to withstand the maximum stress it experiences and that it will operate reliably for the specified duration.

You may think that cars are very sophisticated instruments, but compared to a lot of technology they are primitive things, built as cheaply as possible with the engineers job mostly about maximising margins and creating something that someone in the lower regions of the bell curves for intelligence and common sense can operate.

Regards,

[odysseus2000]

Scotty Kilmer reviews a model Y, dual motor.

Interesting in that the owner rents it out.

The first approx 2 minutes of the 10:02 video are about a charity that Scotty is supporting and the last approx minute is about a different topic.

Overall very interesting comments, not all positive, but he clearly identifies this as a car that is breaking with all the tradition of the previous ICE motors and offers the driver a very positive range of driving experience and performance:

https://youtu.be/IYuIO5QHJaQ

Regards,

[odysseus2000]

Interview with Musk describing his motivation etc for the $100 million prize for a method to remove gigantic tons of carbon from the environment (approx 1 hr):

https://youtu.be/rlblkliGZss

Regards,