Musk endeavours

[andyalan10]

Interesting that the "case for keeping Tesla public" referred to in post 161440 is heavily based on the idea that Tesla will dominate personal transportation in urban environments, which will become a multi-billion dollar business. And today I read that Uber is making a major strategic change towards the provision of bikes and e-bikes because they have realised that individual private pods/cars/whatever can't work on a large scale in an urban environment due to congestion.

Tesla -4.5% on the futures market at the moment.

Andy

[odysseus2000]

Interesting that the "case for keeping Tesla public" referred to in post 161440 is heavily based on the idea that Tesla will dominate personal transportation in urban environments, which will become a multi-billion dollar business. And today I read that Uber is making a major strategic change towards the provision of bikes and e-bikes because they have realised that individual private pods/cars/whatever can't work on a large scale in an urban environment due to congestion.

Tesla -4.5% on the futures market at the moment.

Andy

Any idea that folk will be happy to use bikes and e-bikes in the advanced nations is I believe fundamentally flawed. Bikes were greatly popular in the 1950's, but fell away to the comfort, all weather travel and safety of cars. I don't believe this idea will work in the advanced nations although it may in the developing ones. Electric bikes are apparently popular in China and while I was in Sicily this month I saw some electric scooters being ridden as only Italians can, but for large scale use in the US, UK I don't think it is likely.

Regards,

[andyalan10]

odysseeus

May I ask if you have been in London in the morning or evening rush hours in the last few years?

There are thousands of people cycling to and from work, because it is quicker, healthier and cheaper than any form of public transport, let alone private transport that is always going to have restrictions on where it can go. I realise Uber and Tesla are similar in philosophy, losing as much money as possible in order to earn vast fortunes in some mythical future, but it seems from today's news that they fundamentally disagree on the practicality of individual private transportation in an urban environment. However cheap it might be in terms of energy consumption or driver wages or the lack of them, space will determine that it will always be limited in availability to a small percentage of the population. That might be by taxation, or prioritising disabled people and people carrying goods, or, the way we are going at the moment, it will be for party members and their cronies.

Andy

[odysseus2000]

odysseeus

May I ask if you have been in London in the morning or evening rush hours in the last few years?

There are thousands of people cycling to and from work, because it is quicker, healthier and cheaper than any form of public transport, let alone private transport that is always going to have restrictions on where it can go. I realise Uber and Tesla are similar in philosophy, losing as much money as possible in order to earn vast fortunes in some mythical future, but it seems from today's news that they fundamentally disagree on the practicality of individual private transportation in an urban environment. However cheap it might be in terms of energy consumption or driver wages or the lack of them, space will determine that it will always be limited in availability to a small percentage of the population. That might be by taxation, or prioritising disabled people and people carrying goods, or, the way we are going at the moment, it will be for party members and their cronies.

Andy

Good points and for specific applications such as athletic folk in London there is a market, but for the nation has a whole and for general jobs like carting shopping, picking up children from School, family trips etc it is hard for me to believe that many will use cycles. This did have a brief period of popularity in the post war years but as prosperity rose folk wanted cars. Generally as a species we move forwards. There may come a time when we have gone as far as possible but I am not convinced that is now or in the immediate future.

Regards,

[JamesMuenchen]

Good points and for specific applications such as athletic folk in London there is a market, but for the nation has a whole and for general jobs like carting shopping, picking up children from School, family trips etc it is hard for me to believe that many will use cycles. This did have a brief period of popularity in the post war years but as prosperity rose folk wanted cars. Generally as a species we move forwards. There may come a time when we have gone as far as possible but I am not convinced that is now or in the immediate future.

Regards,

In Germany it's common to see people doing the shopping or school-run with a little trailer behind their bike
https://www.google.com/search?q=fahrradanh%C3%A4nger

With an e-bike it should be a practical solution for just about anyone

[odysseus2000]

Good points and for specific applications such as athletic folk in London there is a market, but for the nation has a whole and for general jobs like carting shopping, picking up children from School, family trips etc it is hard for me to believe that many will use cycles. This did have a brief period of popularity in the post war years but as prosperity rose folk wanted cars. Generally as a species we move forwards. There may come a time when we have gone as far as possible but I am not convinced that is now or in the immediate future.

Regards,

In Germany it's common to see people doing the shopping or school-run with a little trailer behind their bike
https://www.google.com/search?q=fahrradanh%C3%A4nger

With an e-bike it should be a practical solution for just about anyone

Maybe its a hill thing.

In Oxford where it is flat and there are lots of cycle lanes one does see this kind of technology being used by folk, but in other places where it is less cycle friendly and where there are hills I rarely see them. The covered child carrier will keep them dry, but the "engine' is open to what ever the elements throw. Great in summer, not so good in winter rain.

Regards,

[odysseus2000]

The most "beautiful car" goes electric:

https://www.tomsguide.com/us/jaguar-e-t ... 27890.html

Regards,

[redsturgeon]

Do we know how many Model 3s are being built per week at the moment?

John

[odysseus2000]

Do we know how many Model 3s are being built per week at the moment?

John

There are no official figures till the next report, but several estimates such as this one:

https://electrek.co/2018/08/27/tesla-on ... el-3-goal/

Regards,

[PeterGray]

Oh dear, Musk seems to be tweeting away his reputation still further:

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/aug/29/elon-musk-doubles-down-on-pedo-claims-against-uk-cave-diver

Peter

[odysseus2000]

Oh dear, Musk seems to be tweeting away his reputation still further:

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/aug/29/elon-musk-doubles-down-on-pedo-claims-against-uk-cave-diver

Peter

This may be real, but the number of sophisticated scams and cons on Twitter is becoming a problem.

Some are relatively easy to spot such as the ones where folk want you to send in Bitcoin to get more using Musk's photo etc, see e.g. this article from
earlier in the year:

https://news.sky.com/story/elon-musk-fa ... r-11290904

Since then I have noticed more and more sophisticated scams and impersonations on twitter, some of which have none of the obvious things like differently spelt names and are practically indistinguishable from the tweets by the real person.

I am not suggesting that the Guardian has been duped, this may be a real tweet, but I have certainly been mislead by several cons into believing something that was instead a fabrication.

These latest phishing tweets are now so difficult to spot that it is likely that folk are being caught by them and more folk are being fed false information than ever before. It something that the regulators currently are not effectively suppressing and not enough of the criminals are ending up in the slammer.

Using these new techniques on Twitter, YouTube etc for fraud, political, slander and reputation destruction is a growth industry that needs urgent regulator attention.

As things now are the whole base of a free and informative press is being undermined in ways I have never seen before.

Regards,

[PeterGray]

I don't disagree that there is a problem, Ody, but it's one you seem to be interested in mostly when Musk looks like an idiot, and rarely when, for example, there are claims of massive numbers of cars being produced per week at Tesla.

For the record, I think it's very unlikely this is fake news. The Guardian is just one of a large number of papers running the story. And lets face it it - it's entirely in character for Musk at the moment, sadly!

Peter

[BobbyD]

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/e ... 22046.html

Standard report, screenshot of more of the thread.

[onthemove]

And lets face it it - it's entirely in character for Musk at the moment, sadly!

I fully agree.

(not to mention as well that presumably the latest tweet is from the same account as before, so unless he quickly claims it's been hacked ... and lets face it, the time he spends on twitter, that window where people might believe that has probably well closed now ... )

In my view, the way Musk is going, his next new company will probably be called the Lunatic Asylum and he'll insist on running it himself.

He clearly needs to take a break and back off a bit, but it seems when someone else mentioned that to him, that didn't go down too well with him either.

To use a car analogy ... if your engine is moving you down the motorway at great speed and progress but starting to come apart ... well, if you don't ease off and instead keep pushing it, it could very well fall to pieces ... and your journey won't then end well at all.

Is the Elon Musk engine that is powering Tesla and other companies going to ease off a little... or ....

[odysseus2000]

A Tesla out of warranty. Super interesting video, showing how Tesla has sewn up almost all the aspects of a Tesla, to the point where once out of warranty it will cost a lot to maintain. From a business perspective this looks sound given that almost no one works on cars nowadays, such that anyone who buys a Tesla has to likely trade theirs in after the warranty period. If the owner is so smitten that he/she wants another it's a big win for Tesla, but of course it can back fire with the owner not wanting another. The business model looks a whole lot like the iPhone business model, a phone that Buffett says is worth a lot more than $1000 to most people. Interesting:

https://youtu.be/iR4CFiuR3tQ

Regards,

[odysseus2000]

Buffett on Tesla:

https://youtu.be/I38tUj_nLpA

Regards,

[BobbyD]

Why Musk and Tesla Bulls Shouldn’t Worry Much About an SEC Ban

https://www.bloomberg.com/technology

[odysseus2000]

Adoption of electric vehicles in California, interesting is the decline in hybrids, kind of a problem for legacy auto that has put a lot of money into making hybrids despite how complicated they are:

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles ... hnology-vp

Regards,

[odysseus2000]

Tipping point for ic engines.

Looking at all the recent headlines and the general level of commentary on cars, it begins to look to me like we are seeing the beginning of the tipping moment that I believe will rapidly end (5-7 years) internal combustion (ic) car sales in the West. There will be substantial media and political opposition and attempts to sway minds as we are currently seeing in spades from vested interests.

Why?

All the major manufactures are now setting out to make electric cars with specs that are comparable to their top ic engine

Hybrid sales are stalling

Hydrogen has imho no chance as the cost of creating the distribution system is prohibitive.

So where are the investment opportunities?

Probably not the legacy autos as going into electric will hurt their legacy ic sales.

Battery makers. Where will all the new battery supply come from and will any of the promising new storage technologies in laboratories be practical. If some new system comes out that obsoletes lithium who will be able to react quickly to make it in volume and a competitive price?

Solar panel makes. Once folk get used to electric the desire to makes ones own fuel will I believe lead to another wave of solar panels that unlike the first will be driven by folk wanting lower cost fuel, rather than incentives

Power storage. Sure the grid can be used but I suspect home storage will rise rapidly in conjunction with the solar panel market.

Utilities who supply electric power, there are likely going to be new entrants to challenge existing ones that are so far not making much of the opportunity.

The losers: oil companies, refiners and the whole eco-system that supports internal combustion engine manufacture and possibly the car insurance market if the later developments (I envisage, see below) occur.

If all of this happens as i expect the next wave that will build will imho be autonomous cars and the concept of not owning a car, with my belief that we will soon enter an iPhone like market for cars where many will want to trade up ever few years and the car will be as much about an entertainment/information system as a transport system. If this is right the structure of cars will likely change to make them smaller for commuting applications whilst retaining some bigger units for family holidays etc but with few folk owning a car, most simply buying usage as needed for their life.

if these scenarios are anything like right, cars will have to become much simpler to make and will need to be 100% recyclable with the energy costs of this being relatively small and they will likely need some over all ride control systems to anticipate demand and station vehicles where and when they will likely be needed.

imho this trend has only just begun and very many fortunes will be made by the folk who play it well.

Regards,

[BobbyD]

Tesla CEO Elon Musk has renewed his attacks against a British man who played a key role in the rescue of a youth soccer team trapped in a flooded cave in Thailand

...

“I suggest that you call people you know in Thailand, find out what’s actually going on and stop defending child rapists, you [expletive deleted] asshole,” Musk wrote in the first message. “He’s an old, single white guy from England who’s been traveling to or living in Thailand for 30 to 40 years, mostly Pattaya Beach, until moving to Chiang Rai for a child bride who was about 12 years old at the time.”

- https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ry ... feed-email

* Musk didn't say Wombling.