Musk endeavours

[BobbyD]

If Musk really wants to make a truly efficient good value model 3 with a limited range that is not upgradeable, why not just remove half the battery array. The weight savings would increase efficiency and profit margin would surely be better than providing a software locked full battery, saving around 250kg, that's like losing three passengers

The problem being that Musk over-promised and then found that he couldn't produce a car he sell profitably at that price point. The car exists to tick a box, you aren't actually supposed to buy it, and Tesla very helpfully make it far more difficult to buy than any of their other cars to make sure you don't.

Similarly with the 93 mile crippled Canadian compliance crock, you aren't supposed to buy it. But the SR+ is considered part of the same range, and dropping the entry price of the range makes that eligible for the $5000 subsidy, which it previously wasn't.

The SR is all fun and gaming, it isn't a serious car, which is a shame because driving a range war which has been promoted numerous times on this very thread when a significant number of BEV's will spend most of their lives lugging around battery they will never lose fundamentally undermines Tesla's alleged raison d'etre, saving the planet for human habitation.

An interesting question which I suspect reveals a lot about an individual's psychology and experiences. Having spent quite a lot of my younger years fairly skint I view my wealth as a form of security against poverty. I'm also not keen on consumerism which seems to me to be a hollow and shallow sop to the stresses of modern life and (in general) environmentally harmful.

I view consumerism as a form of security against poverty. Other people's consumerism that is. If people didn't buy all the wonderful things and services the companies I own very small parts of provide I would be substantially less well off. Personally I buy well, not often, in the main but I'm not adverse to purchasing on the grounds that I would have to try quite hard not to get value out of something if a retailer is trying to give it away, and we all benefit from the technological improvements which ridiculous product cycles drive in some areas.

[dspp]

Similarly with the 93 mile crippled Canadian compliance crock,

To be fair BD one could describe pretty much all EVs made by legacy ICE-automotive manufacturers as being compliance crocks. It is somewhat unfair to describe Tesla's reluctant decision to cripple their (very good) EV so as to get access to the legacy auto EV-subsidy trough, as anything other than rational economic behaviour.

It may be that one day Tesla will build a short-range shopping trolley. If they do, then I'll be expecting you to buy it given your enthusiasm for under-batteried short range product. Until then surely you'll be better off writing to the Canadian government and lambasting them for trying to so clearly rig the subsidy landscape, with such perverse outcomes.

regards, dspp

[BobbyD]

Similarly with the 93 mile crippled Canadian compliance crock,

To be fair BD one could describe pretty much all EVs made by legacy ICE-automotive manufacturers as being compliance crocks. It is somewhat unfair to describe Tesla's reluctant decision to cripple their (very good) EV so as to get access to the legacy auto EV-subsidy trough, as anything other than rational economic behaviour.

Show me another car whose battery is massively over-specified and whose range is software limited specifically to deprive owners of the full use of that battery...

...or charge £25,500 for a car with a 93 mile range!

...and the standard range isn't a very good car, it is a paper car, an exercise in empty promise filling.

It may be that one day Tesla will build a short-range shopping trolley. If they do, then I'll be expecting you to buy it given your enthusiasm for under-batteried short range product.

That, if it is an argument at all, is a ridiculous one. You only have to look at average mileage and car ownership patterns to see that there is a massive swathe of car owners who would not be inconvenienced one jot by having a car which ranged out at 150-200, hell even 93 miles would suit many, and imagine how much further it might go if it wasn't lugging around on every journey half a battery as dead weight, whose production resulted in the release of large amounts of CO2,and which it was never going to be allowed to use.

I'm enthusiastic about many things I will never use because I have no interest in using them or because they do not suit my lifestyle. Whether or not I as a sample of 1 buy a product has absolutely no relevance to a discussion about the viability of the product or the potential improvement in the air I breath I might see were it to be made widely available.

[Until then surely you'll be better off writing to the Canadian government and lambasting them for trying to so clearly rig the subsidy landscape, with such perverse outcomes.

I asked before and was disappointed you didn't answer, but what leads you to think that Canada are trying to rig their subsidy system against Tesla?

I am more likely to write to the Canadian and possibly other governments to point out that in order to best achieve their aims BEV subsidies should take in to account the emissions netted during production. There is afterall little point in subsidising, for ecological reasons, a car which was produced using Chinese coal power or which carries around twice as much battery as it actually requires. In the short term making it illegal to software lock something as polluting to produce as a battery might be a good quick first step.

[BobbyD]

U.S. rejects Tesla bid for tariff exemption for Autopilot 'brain'

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. trade officials rejected Tesla Inc’s bid for relief from President Donald Trump’s 25-percent tariffs on the Chinese-made Autopilot “brain” of its Model 3 and other electric vehicles, one of more than 1,000 product denials linked to China’s industrial development plans.

...The company has separate pending tariff exclusion requests for duties on the Chinese-made Model 3 Center Screen and for the Model 3 Car Computer before USTR.

- https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-usa-t ... KKCN1S91ZX

[dspp]

Similarly with the 93 mile crippled Canadian compliance crock,

To be fair BD one could describe pretty much all EVs made by legacy ICE-automotive manufacturers as being compliance crocks. It is somewhat unfair to describe Tesla's reluctant decision to cripple their (very good) EV so as to get access to the legacy auto EV-subsidy trough, as anything other than rational economic behaviour.

Show me another car whose battery is massively over-specified and whose range is software limited specifically to deprive owners of the full use of that battery...

BD,

The purchasers will not have taken ownership of a enabled model 3. They will have taken ownership of a limited model 3. That is their individual purchasing choice to make in a free market economy. They won't have been deprived of anything, instead they will have consciously and with prior knowledge chosen of their own free will the product that they think best suits their needs and their means. They will have full use of the product they have chosen to buy. And if they don't want to buy a limited Tesla 3 then they can go and buy something else that they may value more highly. That would be their own choice to make.

I will say again, if you want to get on a high horse and direct your ire at anything, or anybody, then go and direct it at a load of Canadian politicians. Not at Tesla, and not at the purchasers, who are both free agents making thoughtful decisions in the context of a system they did not devise.

My understanding, FWIW, is that the real reason for the $-limit is so that Canadian politicians can virtue-signal that the subsidy is not a case of regressive taxation, from the poor so that the rich can buy luxury vehicles. (there may be aspects of domestic mfg skew, and of Canadian petro-politics). I think the same is the underlying political rationale in Germany. Of course thinking such as that is hampered by the fact that all renewables / and EVs are front loaded in cash terms, even if the through-life cost is lower. Inevitably this fact penalises the cash-poor and favours the cash-rich.

regards, dspp

[odysseus2000]

Lex Fridman, one of the Silicon Valley folk working on AI and robotic driving, talks with Joe Rogan:

https://youtu.be/ikMmkHzlTpk

This is a very deep podcast with Robotic driving starting around 33 mins and then there are various deep looks into what they think AI might be about. Best to watch all the 3 hours but some interesting stuff around 2:08 and later around 2:31 they discuss the decision by openAI to not release their most powerful stuff as it is too capable of influencing opinion.

The discussion is deep and far reaching and deals with many of the issues discussed on this board such as having a system that is good leading to complacency and with Fridman arguing that AI will always need human watching which goes against robo taxis. One can likely get an incomplete view by listening to extracts, the whole thing really needs to be experienced.

Fridman and Rogan are both well read and have thought about many things that are worth listening to imho.

Regards,

[odysseus2000]

UK review of model 3 very positive:

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3 ... -uk-review

Regards,

[BobbyD]

UK review of model 3 very positive:

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3 ... -uk-review

Regards,

Only half a star better than the boring, bottom of the performance table Frankenstein car which is going to sink Audi?

Wow, that must be devastating for you.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/audi/e-tron

[Archtronics]

Tbf that Audi looks pretty decent, I also like that new Sporty model they showed off the other day.

[BobbyD]

Tbf that Audi looks pretty decent, I also like that new Sporty model they showed off the other day.

I think the e-tron is a very well conceived , safe, premium BEV which will have no problem finding a market at a very healthy price point.

This is not a universally shared opinion though... although it's difficult to see how you can trumpet a 5 star review in autoexpress as highly significant for the M3 when a car you have dismissed as a boring, bottom of the performance table Frankenstein car got 4.5 stars!

The e-tron GT looks stunning, and being the sister to the Porsche Taycan it's internals shouldn't disappoint either. Been keeping an eye on it since video of a pre-production model being driven around LA under police escort hit youtube last year. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvNw15W_EK8

[BobbyD]

I refrained from wishing everybody a happy ID3 day yesterday, but here's the first bit of ID3 good news

Volkswagen receives 10,000+ pre-orders for ID.3 electric hatchback in first 24 hours

https://electrek.co/2019/05/09/vw-10000-preorders-id3/

That's a third of the launch edition which has been raised to a 30,000 vehicle run. Demand constrained only by the capacity of VW's servers!

[BobbyD]

Many owners of Tesla Performance vehicles currently don’t have access to the full power of their vehicles because Tesla pushed a software update earlier this year that has “inadvertently” removed features that enable the full power output.

The automaker says that it is still working on the problem.

- https://electrek.co/2019/05/09/tesla-pe ... tware-bug/

[BobbyD]

Oh, saw this a few days ago.

The Taiwanese electric scooter company Gogoro has become an industry leader for both its electric scooters and its fast-swapping batteries. The company currently has multiple electric scooter models positioned for different markets. Today it unveiled its latest generation scooter, the Gogoro 3.

The new Gogoro 3 electric scooter features a total redesign and will leverage the company’s new higher capacity batteries to reach 170 km (105 mi) of range. Those batteries use 2170-format cells supplied by Panasonic – Tesla’s own battery partner.

If Pana aren't keeping up with agreed production rates leaving the model 3 supply constrained shouldn't Tesla have first dibs on 2170's produced elsewhere?

[odysseus2000]

If you loathe Tesla you might like one of these: Morris Minor electric!

https://youtu.be/cdcT0LH_8HY

Regards,

[BobbyD]

If you loathe Tesla you might like one of these: Morris Minor electric!

https://youtu.be/cdcT0LH_8HY

Regards,

I'll play around with the '79 Porsche 911 while I wait for the Taycan...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJLdzRJdKrs

They do adapter kits, perhaps you could electrify your Merc and give it a new lease of life?

[odysseus2000]

Tesla auto pilot in uk city driving: Impressive but still needing some manual human interventions. Can it be developed to go to full no steering wheel driving?

https://youtu.be/sk0eZRVw9x4

Regards,

[BobbyD]

Musk's concern for road safety shines through again:

Elon Musk jokes about video of distinctly unsafe sex: in Tesla on Autopilot
He tweets double entrendres after pornographic clip surfaces

- https://www.autoblog.com/2019/05/10/elo ... autopilot/

[BobbyD]

Elon Musk faces trial after calling British diver a paedophile

LA court rejects Telsa chief’s attempt to dismiss Vernon Unsworth’s defamation lawsuit

...A federal court judge in Los Angeles set a 22 October trial date on Friday in a filing that rejected the Tesla chief’s attempt to dismiss a defamation lawsuit filed by the British diver Vernon Unsworth.

- https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... paedophile

[PeterGray]

Musk keeps trying to justify himself, or excuse his more outrageous remarks, by effectively saying you shouldn't take anything he tweets seriously. It's good to see he's got called out here. But it is truly remarkable behaviour from CEO of a what claims to be a serious car manufacturer.

[redsturgeon]

Here's how the Chinese go quietly about producing real EVs by the thousand, no fuss, no hype no tweets!

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features ... hyperdrive

The photo of taxis being recharged is interesting!

John