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Musk endeavours

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BobbyD
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Re: Musk endeavours

#237326

Postby BobbyD » July 17th, 2019, 7:37 pm

FT Alphaville ordered a Tesla Model 3

We wanted to keep our order secret, as delivery was promised a month later in June. And we thought a big review of the sales, delivery and driving experience would be the way forward.

Then, unfortunately, delivery got pushed back to July.

We tried to contact Tesla twice about the delay via its online contact form, because, as paying customers, we thought we’d have its ear.

Neither time we got a response, with Tesla blaming the cars overwhelming popularity for its customer support issues.

In frustration, we decided to up the ante. On Monday we called, and after a 19 minute wait, we finally got through.

The news wasn’t good. Delivery is now “very likely” in September, according to Tesla. The wait goes on for Alphaville, it seems.

Updates to follow in due course on insurance costs, and our general experience of the delivery process. B



- https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2019/07/17/ ... a-Model-3/

- https://www.google.com/search?q=alphavi ... e&ie=UTF-8

redsturgeon
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Re: Musk endeavours

#237328

Postby redsturgeon » July 17th, 2019, 7:39 pm

BobbyD wrote:
FT Alphaville ordered a Tesla Model 3

We wanted to keep our order secret, as delivery was promised a month later in June. And we thought a big review of the sales, delivery and driving experience would be the way forward.

Then, unfortunately, delivery got pushed back to July.

We tried to contact Tesla twice about the delay via its online contact form, because, as paying customers, we thought we’d have its ear.

Neither time we got a response, with Tesla blaming the cars overwhelming popularity for its customer support issues.

In frustration, we decided to up the ante. On Monday we called, and after a 19 minute wait, we finally got through.

The news wasn’t good. Delivery is now “very likely” in September, according to Tesla. The wait goes on for Alphaville, it seems.

Updates to follow in due course on insurance costs, and our general experience of the delivery process. B



- https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2019/07/17/ ... a-Model-3/

- https://www.google.com/search?q=alphavi ... e&ie=UTF-8


This sort of thing would be my worry about trying to buy a newTesla, it seems that far too much luck is involved in the process.

John

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Re: Musk endeavours

#237329

Postby BobbyD » July 17th, 2019, 7:41 pm

redsturgeon wrote:This sort of thing would be my worry about trying to buy a newTesla, it seems that far too much luck is involved in the process.

John


Any luck getting on the ID3 wait list yet?

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Re: Musk endeavours

#237356

Postby redsturgeon » July 17th, 2019, 9:09 pm

BobbyD wrote:
redsturgeon wrote:This sort of thing would be my worry about trying to buy a newTesla, it seems that far too much luck is involved in the process.

John


Any luck getting on the ID3 wait list yet?


I have registered but not given any concrete information yet nor any way to pay a deposit.

John

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Re: Musk endeavours

#237429

Postby dspp » July 18th, 2019, 8:48 am

redsturgeon wrote:
BobbyD wrote:
FT Alphaville ordered a Tesla Model 3

We wanted to keep our order secret, as delivery was promised a month later in June. And we thought a big review of the sales, delivery and driving experience would be the way forward.

Then, unfortunately, delivery got pushed back to July.

We tried to contact Tesla twice about the delay via its online contact form, because, as paying customers, we thought we’d have its ear.

Neither time we got a response, with Tesla blaming the cars overwhelming popularity for its customer support issues.

In frustration, we decided to up the ante. On Monday we called, and after a 19 minute wait, we finally got through.

The news wasn’t good. Delivery is now “very likely” in September, according to Tesla. The wait goes on for Alphaville, it seems.

Updates to follow in due course on insurance costs, and our general experience of the delivery process. B



- https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2019/07/17/ ... a-Model-3/

- https://www.google.com/search?q=alphavi ... e&ie=UTF-8


This sort of thing would be my worry about trying to buy a newTesla, it seems that far too much luck is involved in the process.

John


At the moment any BEV purchase by anybody that is not nearish the factory, for any BEV that is actually desirable/desired seems production-constrained. The key issue is battery availability. There are people apparently waiting over a year to get a Hyundai EV in the UK as an example. So I am not terribly surprised that FT are getting this response, and indeed my view as a shareholder is that Tesla should run an automated webcentric/remote sales process as far as possible so as to keep S&M costs low at this stage. However the market leader in bringing capacity online is Tesla, so things are likely t ochange.

I will watch rs's attempt to order a Tesla 3 with as much interest as his attempts to order a VW id3 ............

regards, dspp

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Re: Musk endeavours

#237460

Postby Howard » July 18th, 2019, 10:34 am

dspp wrote:
redsturgeon wrote:


This sort of thing would be my worry about trying to buy a newTesla, it seems that far too much luck is involved in the process.

John


At the moment any BEV purchase by anybody that is not nearish the factory, for any BEV that is actually desirable/desired seems production-constrained. The key issue is battery availability. There are people apparently waiting over a year to get a Hyundai EV in the UK as an example. So I am not terribly surprised that FT are getting this response, and indeed my view as a shareholder is that Tesla should run an automated webcentric/remote sales process as far as possible so as to keep S&M costs low at this stage. However the market leader in bringing capacity online is Tesla, so things are likely t ochange.

I will watch rs's attempt to order a Tesla 3 with as much interest as his attempts to order a VW id3 ............

regards, dspp


I contacted Tesla in October 2018 indicating I'd be interested in a Model S test drive. They didn't reply until February this year! Their sales rep implied that I'd have to sign up for a car to qualify for a test drive but never came back to me. I then asked, in writing, for a Model 3 test drive when the car was available in the UK but haven't had any follow-up from Tesla.

When I ran a consumer business my team and I always made sure that our sales process achieved as close to 100% as possible in delighting new customers on the basis that they would believe our after-sales service was as good. Our research showed that, if a sales operation is sloppy in a company, then the service/delivery was usually bad too. From my own experience applying this principle, Tesla service is likely to be awful in the UK! This is confirmed by surveys of owners so far, as we have discussed in the past.

How are your colleagues getting on with ordering their Model 3's to replace their ICE cars, dspp? I'm not sure a busy executive is going to have the time to mess about with a car manufacturer who appears to be playing at supplying cars to international markets.

I see some leasing companies (eg Leaseplan) after initially supplying a few Model 3s have dropped Tesla from their current leasing offers. You can lease any car from them except Tesla! Is this a bad sign?

For anyone needing a new car for the next three years I think a plug-in hybrid might be the best solution. But I suspect most consumers will choose an ICE or non plug-in hybrid. The SMMT sales statistics will show whether this is correct in due course.

regards

Howard

PS It wouldn't surprise me if we are still discussing Tesla's inability to supply a reasonable volume of cars in the UK in a year's time.

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Re: Musk endeavours

#237464

Postby dspp » July 18th, 2019, 10:45 am

1. My sales colleagues are very keen to sift out what they term "statements of insincere objections" early on in the sales process. I think you and I might term these people time-wasters. As far as I am concerned if you want a Tesla test drive for a bit of fun then find a friend with a Tesla. If you want to order a car then click to buy. For Tesla the problem at present is supply, not demand, so you have to decide whether you fish or cut bait. My colleagues who have bought S's had no problems getting a test drive, but they were sincere buyers.

2. One of my sales colleagues is still window shopping. They are well aware that waiting has fewer downsides than buying a new dino-juice car at this particular moment. So they will wait until they are sure. Meanwhile that's a sales that BMW/Merc/Volvo are not getting ......

3. Another reports that there is a big push in (their partner's) fleet to shift everyone to EVs as fast as possible. It seems that the sales-droids all want Teslas, not Leafs. Can't think why ......

4. The faster Tesla get exposed to UK (or similar) European fleet buyers the faster they will get exposed to the need for an estate version of the 3.

Merciless screening is a easy thing to do in a supply constrained environment.

regards, dspp

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Re: Musk endeavours

#237471

Postby redsturgeon » July 18th, 2019, 11:07 am

Looks like it is unlikely that I will be ordering a Tesla any time soon then.

I have the cash waiting to buy a BEV through our company, the 100% allowance would be handy to offset some corporation tax from a bumper year, since we have already allocated the max on pensions but the is no way on earth I could order a car without a test drive.

I understand the supply side constraints though.

John

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Re: Musk endeavours

#237487

Postby dspp » July 18th, 2019, 11:48 am

redsturgeon wrote:Looks like it is unlikely that I will be ordering a Tesla any time soon then.

I have the cash waiting to buy a BEV through our company, the 100% allowance would be handy to offset some corporation tax from a bumper year, since we have already allocated the max on pensions but the is no way on earth I could order a car without a test drive.

I understand the supply side constraints though.

John


If you are serious then you'll try to get a test drive. If you are not you won't. Your call, your cash, your loss (of the allowance, and the savings).

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Re: Musk endeavours

#237492

Postby redsturgeon » July 18th, 2019, 11:57 am

dspp wrote:
redsturgeon wrote:Looks like it is unlikely that I will be ordering a Tesla any time soon then.

I have the cash waiting to buy a BEV through our company, the 100% allowance would be handy to offset some corporation tax from a bumper year, since we have already allocated the max on pensions but the is no way on earth I could order a car without a test drive.

I understand the supply side constraints though.

John


If you are serious then you'll try to get a test drive. If you are not you won't. Your call, your cash, your loss (of the allowance, and the savings).


I will only try so hard to get a Tesla test drive, my view is similar to Howard's that if the pre-sales service is sub par then I can have little faith in the after sales care. From what I read and watch online, I have little doubt that the Tesla is a fine car but you have to take a bit of a gamble that nothing goes wrong that you need after sales service help with. Everyone is different in what they value but for me a positive car ownership experience is as much about it being relaxing and trouble free as being exciting and new.

I am not aiming to purchase until April 2020 though which is why I am relaxed about it at the moment.



John

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Re: Musk endeavours

#237494

Postby dspp » July 18th, 2019, 12:02 pm

redsturgeon wrote:I am not aiming to purchase until April 2020 though which is why I am relaxed about it at the moment.

John


Then it would be a mis-prioritisation of you as a potential customer to give you a test drive now. Right now you are just a tyre-kicker. Next year you may be for real. Right now Tesla should be prioritising real customers seeking to buy today.

It is not just a Tesla issue we are watching here. It is also about whether/how the sales channel for OEM autos can be completely restructured to eliminate dealerships. That is involving a certain amount of reprogramming of assumptions in many people, and many companies, as we are observing right here.

regards, dspp

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Re: Musk endeavours

#237506

Postby Howard » July 18th, 2019, 12:51 pm

dspp wrote:1. My sales colleagues are very keen to sift out what they term "statements of insincere objections" early on in the sales process. I think you and I might term these people time-wasters. As far as I am concerned if you want a Tesla test drive for a bit of fun then find a friend with a Tesla. If you want to order a car then click to buy. For Tesla the problem at present is supply, not demand, so you have to decide whether you fish or cut bait. My colleagues who have bought S's had no problems getting a test drive, but they were sincere buyers.

2. One of my sales colleagues is still window shopping. They are well aware that waiting has fewer downsides than buying a new dino-juice car at this particular moment. So they will wait until they are sure. Meanwhile that's a sales that BMW/Merc/Volvo are not getting ......

3. Another reports that there is a big push in (their partner's) fleet to shift everyone to EVs as fast as possible. It seems that the sales-droids all want Teslas, not Leafs. Can't think why ......

4. The faster Tesla get exposed to UK (or similar) European fleet buyers the faster they will get exposed to the need for an estate version of the 3.

Merciless screening is a easy thing to do in a supply constrained environment.

regards, dspp


Yes, I agree if you are selling a high-value item it is important to ensure you are dealing with a potential customer not a time-waster. And selling to business customers with tight requirements can be done in a more brutal and insensitive manner. :D

However, most purchasers of expensive cars require a little cultivating. It's easy to sell a few expensive luxury cars to people who are wealthy but not very sophisticated. But to achieve sales to the next, more discriminating customer segment requires a little more effort.

Hopefully your sales colleagues take the trouble to reply to an email from a potential customer.

At the time I first contacted Tesla, I was ready to be impressed and had the necessary funds to purchase. Although I admit, the S was rather a large car for my needs. If they'd bothered to ask me about my car owning history they'd have found I was prepared to fork out for a nice car.

The Tesla salesmen who dealt with me weren't bothered about qualifying their sales leads they seemed to me to be trying to force a sale on a gullible punter rather than trying to cultivate a potential customer.

If you are right and Tesla are production-constrained, why on earth do they keep reducing prices?? And their margins?? Merciless value destruction??

We'll soon know if this is a good strategy when we see their Q2 results next week. :D

regards

Howard

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Re: Musk endeavours

#237543

Postby redsturgeon » July 18th, 2019, 2:43 pm

Just an update on my ID3 endeavours.

Just received an email from my local dealer letting me know:

As soon as the ID.3 has been officially launched, your chosen retailer
will be in touch to make sure you're one of the first to get behind the
wheel. Feel free to contact them earlier with any questions though.


At least they are trying.

John

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Re: Musk endeavours

#237564

Postby Howard » July 18th, 2019, 3:54 pm

redsturgeon wrote:Just an update on my ID3 endeavours.

Just received an email from my local dealer letting me know:

As soon as the ID.3 has been officially launched, your chosen retailer
will be in touch to make sure you're one of the first to get behind the
wheel. Feel free to contact them earlier with any questions though.


At least they are trying.

John


That's refreshing! Perhaps it's the reason we both have a Golf in our households. :)

My experience was that VW salesmen performed at many levels above Tesla sales staff in dealing with a potential customer. When I collected Mrs H's Golf, they made sure the car was available at a time suitable for me and collected me from the local station. Luxury car service for a modestly priced car :). No wonder VW/Audi make profits, they have been charming to me as a "tyre kicker" over the years, and it has only persuaded me to buy four cars from them so far.

By the way, if you get a test drive in a Tesla, please do not try out the "Summon" facility in any big car park in Winchester. My car might be parked there and I've read about a number of Tesla "summon" crashes see below for a few examples . :roll:

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... 675/page-2

regards

Howard

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Re: Musk endeavours

#237570

Postby Howard » July 18th, 2019, 4:08 pm

dspp wrote:
redsturgeon wrote:I am not aiming to purchase until April 2020 though which is why I am relaxed about it at the moment.

John


Then it would be a mis-prioritisation of you as a potential customer to give you a test drive now. Right now you are just a tyre-kicker. Next year you may be for real. Right now Tesla should be prioritising real customers seeking to buy today.

It is not just a Tesla issue we are watching here. It is also about whether/how the sales channel for OEM autos can be completely restructured to eliminate dealerships. That is involving a certain amount of reprogramming of assumptions in many people, and many companies, as we are observing right here.

regards, dspp


The whole point is that Tesla customers can't buy today!!

As we've seen from other posters, it's a complete lottery when Tesla decide to deliver. UK purchasers of Model 3s who have posted on the internet found it was a waste of time reserving a car many months in advance as other later buyers got their cars before them.

Luckily for Tesla some consumers are sad enough to put up with this type of service but I doubt if they are the majority.

Please re-assure me you don't treat your prospective customers as badly as this?

yours (tongue in cheek) :lol:

Howard

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Re: Musk endeavours

#237571

Postby BobbyD » July 18th, 2019, 4:16 pm

dspp wrote:1. My sales colleagues are very keen to sift out what they term "statements of insincere objections" early on in the sales process. I think you and I might term these people time-wasters. As far as I am concerned if you want a Tesla test drive for a bit of fun then find a friend with a Tesla. If you want to order a car then click to buy. For Tesla the problem at present is supply, not demand, so you have to decide whether you fish or cut bait. My colleagues who have bought S's had no problems getting a test drive, but they were sincere buyers.


It seems to me that Howard, dspp and their fellow customers are keen to weed out what they might call insincere offers, companies you and I might call time wasters. If they want to receive tens of thousands of pounds in return for one of their cars they will find a way to let you drive it first, to repair it and replace parts in a timely and affordable, if not cheap, manner... If Tesla are going to make it to the mainstream they are going to have stop treating potential customers like devotees. Tesla are selling premium vehicles at what for most people is a lot of money, not knock off monitors built from the panels which failed QC shipped on the slow boat from China. As long as they have no substantial competition they might be able to get away with it, but most people laying down £40k on a new car are going to demand more.

redsturgeon wrote:Just an update on my ID3 endeavours.

Just received an email from my local dealer letting me know:

As soon as the ID.3 has been officially launched, your chosen retailer
will be in touch to make sure you're one of the first to get behind the
wheel. Feel free to contact them earlier with any questions though.


At least they are trying.

John


Congrats!

Isn't customer service a wonderful thing?

Such a simple thing to illicit such a different reaction, and for a car which hasn't been officially launched yet!

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Re: Musk endeavours

#237594

Postby dspp » July 18th, 2019, 5:11 pm

The peeps who have given up trying to buy Hyundai EVs have probably not moved on to buying any other Hyundai in the last year or so.

The same may happen to VAG. How long is it that they keep on announcing e-trons and ids and suchlike. Fortunately there are a lot of peeps out there who are determined to buy German, even if they won't let you order one, and even if the only people who can get a test drive are journos in cammed-out test vehicles. Or you can buy not-good-enough compliance EVs from these manufacturers.

Meanwhile at least you can order a Tesla today. Fair enough it is a slight lottery as to when it will be delivered (which is really a blend mix&match batch-prediction and logistics issue, exacerbated by being a small market at the end of a long logistics pipe for a in-demand product), but at least it will still be the best EV in the market when it is delivered. And you know what, it gets better after it is delivered, courtesy of over-the-air updates.

I don't know how this will play out, but it sure is interesting watching.

(I have long ago learnt that insincere purchasers can tie the sales team in knots thereby preventing them servicing genuine customers, and given my sales folks discretion to act accordingly. Equally I have met a lot of sales processes over the years that were highly suboptimal and could be improved. So I watch with interest how Tesla is challenging the norms in this area as well.)

regards, dspp

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Re: Musk endeavours

#237608

Postby BobbyD » July 18th, 2019, 6:09 pm

dspp wrote:The peeps who have given up trying to buy Hyundai EVs have probably not moved on to buying any other Hyundai in the last year or so.

The same may happen to VAG. How long is it that they keep on announcing e-trons and ids and suchlike. Fortunately there are a lot of peeps out there who are determined to buy German, even if they won't let you order one, and even if the only people who can get a test drive are journos in cammed-out test vehicles. Or you can buy not-good-enough compliance EVs from these manufacturers.

Meanwhile at least you can order a Tesla today.


The e-tron is available and selling well, the ID3 is in preproduction testing and will be unveiled in Frankfurt, and VW customer service is more attentive for a car which hasn't yet been launched than Tesla's is for the car on which the short term future of the company depends...

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Re: Musk endeavours

#237624

Postby Howard » July 18th, 2019, 7:20 pm

dspp wrote:The peeps who have given up trying to buy Hyundai EVs have probably not moved on to buying any other Hyundai in the last year or so.

The same may happen to VAG. How long is it that they keep on announcing e-trons and ids and suchlike. Fortunately there are a lot of peeps out there who are determined to buy German, even if they won't let you order one, and even if the only people who can get a test drive are journos in cammed-out test vehicles. Or you can buy not-good-enough compliance EVs from these manufacturers.

Meanwhile at least you can order a Tesla today. Fair enough it is a slight lottery as to when it will be delivered (which is really a blend mix&match batch-prediction and logistics issue, exacerbated by being a small market at the end of a long logistics pipe for a in-demand product), but at least it will still be the best EV in the market when it is delivered. And you know what, it gets better after it is delivered, courtesy of over-the-air updates.

I don't know how this will play out, but it sure is interesting watching.

(I have long ago learnt that insincere purchasers can tie the sales team in knots thereby preventing them servicing genuine customers, and given my sales folks discretion to act accordingly. Equally I have met a lot of sales processes over the years that were highly suboptimal and could be improved. So I watch with interest how Tesla is challenging the norms in this area as well.)

regards, dspp


Yes, you can order a Tesla today. And when it arrives it will be included in the UK sales statistics. Your are right, a lot of people like buying German cars at the moment. Even though the car market is turning down, in June alone in the UK, BMW sold 20,000 cars, I guess quite a few of them plug in hybrids. VW sold another 20,000 cars, Audi 14,000 and Mercedes 15,000 cars. Tesla's sales are so small they aren't listed by brand, just included in "other imports". I guess they sold less cars than Ssangyong who managed to sell 122. :D

Maybe their sales process could be improved? Last year they claimed that we'd be seeing the "Invasion of Europe". I'm sure their cars aren't that bad, but when are they going to meet one of their forecasts?

regards

Howard

https://www.smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/car-registrations/

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Re: Musk endeavours

#238016

Postby odysseus2000 » July 20th, 2019, 1:28 pm

Tesla service centres expanding, now one in Warsaw:

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/07/18/te ... in-poland/

Regards,


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