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Musk endeavours

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BobbyD
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Re: Musk endeavours

#244791

Postby BobbyD » August 16th, 2019, 1:59 pm

Howard wrote:The problem seems to be that Tesla are not good at responding to service issues. Yes, once one has a courtesy car, one can relax to some extent as one is still mobile. However, it isn't the new car you have leased/bought and customers generally don't want substitutes.


It's noticeable that Tesla were driven to such extremes of penny pinching that months after ramping production they were closing all their showrooms, and firing 7% of the workforce. It's hard not to see a connection. They never even scaled their domestic support so that it could handle the increased numbers of lets say uneven quality cars they are producing, and now despite Americans apparently clamouring for more they've decided it makes more sense to deliver 130 cars a month in Spain, 500 cars a month in France, 300 cars a month in Switzerland, 200 Cars a month in Italy, 230 cars a month in Belgium...

Have a look at the list of Tesla service centres by country on their own website: https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/findus/list

Of the 10 in the UK 4 are in London, and there's another in Crawley! Scotland has one in Edinburgh, NI has none, Wales none...

There are 2 in Spain, which is not a small country, in Italy there is one in Milan and one in Padua which are both in the very north of a very long, thin country, there's one in Poland, one in Ireland, and 16 in Norway...

...and I'd advise against taking your Tesla on a road trip to Kazakhstan!

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Re: Musk endeavours

#244801

Postby odysseus2000 » August 16th, 2019, 2:38 pm

Howard
Normally one can find a dealer a few miles away so this is a matter of, say an hour's delay in the morning. But if the dealer is 50 miles away and you're driving in the rush hour this may be a whole morning wasted.

Looking at twitter accounts and consumer reviews, the problem is much worse if, when the car goes wrong, you can't contact Tesla because they won't reply. Taking real examples, you now have a Model 3 with, say, a serious crack in the large rear window which is a safety issue. Or a display which keeps going blank so you don't know what speed you are going. If you are driving on business, you want the issue dealt with immediately, just like a normal ICE dealer repair. If you phone a Mercedes dealer, you'd expect the service team to reply within a minute or two, or if they are busy, phone you back.

The problem seems to be that Tesla are not good at responding to service issues. Yes, once one has a courtesy car, one can relax to some extent as one is still mobile. However, it isn't the new car you have leased/bought and customers generally don't want substitutes.



Good points which must effect the more junior managers and smaller company managers choices as they will often be dependent on mobility to execute professionally and have a home life as well. I would imagine these folk would want a S or X if they are going electric, the 3 being a bit down market.

For more senior folk in bigger companies, senior civil servants etc, it likely has limited effect as they would often be considered too valuable to be allowed to use business time driving themselves and would instead have a bunch of chauffeur on call as needed while they would be expected to get on with reading, making telephone calls etc while being driven about.

The Tesla model is to operate with out dealerships and instead have a network of authorised or Tesla owned workshops whose job would be to fix, if possible cars at an owners convenience where ever that may be, or otherwise bring a loaner and take the motor for repair. A broken Tesla will in general tell the Tesla network it has broken and inform them of the likely problems, such that Tesla will be aware of the problem before the owner calls in. It remains to be seen if this dealer free idea works in practice. For now it has teething troubles but in principle it gives a lower cost base to Tesla and if it can be made to work offers savings for them over having a dealer network.

For people who have been used to a dealer network, the Tesla model may be a step too far, especially has it goes through its teething years, but the history of the internet has been the decline and fall of many middle players as illustrated by the vanishing of second hand book stores from many of their long time locations and similarly in many other business.

The big question is: "Do we now need car Dealers?"

If I had to guess I imagine they will go the way of second hand book stores. One can argue it won't be so based on the success of Apple stores, but there are not that many of them and most folk are becoming more apt at sorting out Apple product problems by themselves and are becoming happier to buy things without first holding them.

Regards,

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Re: Musk endeavours

#244802

Postby Howard » August 16th, 2019, 2:39 pm

odysseus2000 wrote:
I can imagine that there may be a slight inconvenience, but if a leased car breaks the repair folk will have to come & collect it & bring you another car. Is this the worst possible scenario with a leased car, or are there worse things that could blight the life of the person who leases?

Regards,


And Ody

You should read this report of the experience of Stefan Moeller who began this year with an ambitious target: to make his car-rental company Nextmove the biggest Tesla Inc. customer in Germany by adding 100 Model 3s to its fleet.

He has more than 300 electric vehicles in his fleet, so he knows what he is talking about.

He spent two years waiting for the car maker to replace a seat in a Model X that was delivered in July 2017 with a hole in it.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... s-backyard

This isn't click bait. It is real customer experience.

regards

Howard

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Re: Musk endeavours

#244811

Postby odysseus2000 » August 16th, 2019, 2:58 pm

And Ody

You should read this report of the experience of Stefan Moeller who began this year with an ambitious target: to make his car-rental company Nextmove the biggest Tesla Inc. customer in Germany by adding 100 Model 3s to its fleet.

He has more than 300 electric vehicles in his fleet, so he knows what he is talking about.

He spent two years waiting for the car maker to replace a seat in a Model X that was delivered in July 2017 with a hole in it.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... s-backyard

This isn't click bait. It is real customer experience.

regards

Howard


Yes, Tesla will have to do better.

Are these growing pains or fundamental issues that can not be corrected?

My guess is growing pains, but we shall see.

If owning a Tesla meant a lot to me I would not be put off, but owning a Tesla is not something that interests me so it is interesting to get other people's perspective.

Regards,

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Re: Musk endeavours

#244820

Postby Howard » August 16th, 2019, 3:47 pm

odysseus2000 wrote:
Good points which must effect the more junior managers and smaller company managers choices as they will often be dependent on mobility to execute professionally and have a home life as well. I would imagine these folk would want a S or X if they are going electric, the 3 being a bit down market.

For more senior folk in bigger companies, senior civil servants etc, it likely has limited effect as they would often be considered too valuable to be allowed to use business time driving themselves and would instead have a bunch of chauffeur on call as needed while they would be expected to get on with reading, making telephone calls etc while being driven about.

Regards,


Dear Ody

I don't know what planet you are on. "Junior managers and smaller company managers ......... I would imagine these folk would want a S or X if they are going electric, the 3 being a bit down market".

Your experience of junior managers defies belief! :o

They'd be lucky to have a company car, let alone one costing £40 - £60k. :lol:

I don't know about senior Civil Servants, but the average Director of a FTSE 100 company or major UK subsidiary of an American company is unlikely to be driven around by a Chauffeur. Yes, the Chairman or the CEO might be but I'd guess the typical director might have to slum it by driving him or herself to work in their S Class Mercedes or something more humble. (I accept that in my experience he or she may use a Chauffeur to get to the airport and at the other end, perhaps a Limo to get to their appointment).

For example, I know the Chairman of an organisation which manages nearly £10 billion of assets. He has a nice (ICE) car which he drives himself.

And if managers don't turn up to morning meetings with the weak excuse: "my Tesla let me down again and I had to take it to the service centre which is 70 miles away", then they won't last long in employment!

regards

Howard
Last edited by Howard on August 16th, 2019, 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Musk endeavours

#244822

Postby redsturgeon » August 16th, 2019, 3:52 pm

Owning a Tesla is not something that interests me either.

What interests me is owning a car that gets me from A to B in a relaxed and involving way.

A car that makes sense to own from a financial point of view.

A car that comes with everything well made and screwed together from day one.

A car that is reliable.

A car that has a customer service back up that is efficient if things do go wrong.

Whether that car has a Tesla badge or a VW badge is of little consequence to me.

John

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Re: Musk endeavours

#244864

Postby odysseus2000 » August 16th, 2019, 6:38 pm

Howard wrote:
odysseus2000 wrote:
Good points which must effect the more junior managers and smaller company managers choices as they will often be dependent on mobility to execute professionally and have a home life as well. I would imagine these folk would want a S or X if they are going electric, the 3 being a bit down market.

For more senior folk in bigger companies, senior civil servants etc, it likely has limited effect as they would often be considered too valuable to be allowed to use business time driving themselves and would instead have a bunch of chauffeur on call as needed while they would be expected to get on with reading, making telephone calls etc while being driven about.

Regards,


Dear Ody

I don't know what planet you are on. "Junior managers and smaller company managers ......... I would imagine these folk would want a S or X if they are going electric, the 3 being a bit down market".

Your experience of junior managers defies belief! :o

They'd be lucky to have a company car, let alone one costing £40 - £60k. :lol:

I don't know about senior Civil Servants, but the average Director of a FTSE 100 company or major UK subsidiary of an American company is unlikely to be driven around by a Chauffeur. Yes, the Chairman or the CEO might be but I'd guess the typical director might have to slum it by driving him or herself to work in their S Class Mercedes or something more humble. (I accept that in my experience he or she may use a Chauffeur to get to the airport and at the other end, perhaps a Limo to get to their appointment).

For example, I know the Chairman of an organisation which manages nearly £10 billion of assets. He has a nice (ICE) car which he drives himself.

And if managers don't turn up to morning meetings with the weak excuse: "my Tesla let me down again and I had to take it to the service centre which is 70 miles away", then they won't last long in employment!

regards

Howard


You do surprise me. When I was in the University system there were driven cars provided for us when visiting civil service laboratories, the senior folk at these places would also get driven where they had to go.

Chauffer salaries are not high so in many cases it is a good business investment:

https://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Jo ... eur/Salary

Who buys all the expensive motors. Sure sports and music stars will take some but expensive cars are sold not just to these two groups and I presume most of these go to folk in business.

If you have a senior manager driving themselves about you have a lot of expensive time being used for something that someone else could do for a lot less money leaving the manager free to rest, prepare, telephone etc.

With more prosperity comes more efficient use of time and more ease and extravagant spending for the folk who make it to the top.

The average director base pay is currently nearly £100k per year:

https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Salaries/di ... _KO0,8.htm

One can argue about how such a salary is divided between money, options and benefit in kind, but to have someone earning this kind of salary driving themselves about is a bit wasteful when it could be done for about 1/4 of the cost and be far more convenient and productive for the manager.

Regards,

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Re: Musk endeavours

#244868

Postby odysseus2000 » August 16th, 2019, 6:47 pm

redsturgeon wrote:Owning a Tesla is not something that interests me either.

What interests me is owning a car that gets me from A to B in a relaxed and involving way.

A car that makes sense to own from a financial point of view.

A car that comes with everything well made and screwed together from day one.

A car that is reliable.

A car that has a customer service back up that is efficient if things do go wrong.

Whether that car has a Tesla badge or a VW badge is of little consequence to me.

John


Me, it is all about miles per £ invested and being in a strong car with plenty of space for me, things and important stuff like my dogs.

I want something that I can maintain, that will keep on running and preferably be relatively economical.

My make of choice has been Volvo, then I got stupid and tried Mercedes, now back to Volvo.

Best ever deal I got was a Volvo 740 that cost me £129 and which then drove me around for years and years. It was a bit heavy on fuel, but otherwise was fabulous. My current V70 was a bit more but it is returning over 44 mpg and so I am happy with it.

But as I keep saying I am way out on the edge of the distribution and for investment purposes I want to know what other folk want and then to own the business that supply their desires.

Regards,

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Re: Musk endeavours

#244900

Postby redsturgeon » August 16th, 2019, 8:39 pm

odysseus2000 wrote:One can argue about how such a salary is divided between money, options and benefit in kind, but to have someone earning this kind of salary driving themselves about is a bit wasteful when it could be done for about 1/4 of the cost and be far more convenient and productive for the manager.

Regards,


Have you heard of taxis Ody?

When I worked for GSK if I wanted a driver to drive me somewhere then my secretary would get either a taxi or a chauffeur company to come a pick me up. There may have been one one two drivers permanently employed by the whole company to chauffeur main board directors around but that was it.

It used to make me laugh when I lived in York and caught the train down to Kings Cross, I'd be met by a fully liveried chauffeur with a Merc who would take me the final few miles to the London offices. At a cost twice that of the 200 mile first class train journey!

John

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Re: Musk endeavours

#244916

Postby odysseus2000 » August 16th, 2019, 9:28 pm

redsturgeon wrote:
odysseus2000 wrote:One can argue about how such a salary is divided between money, options and benefit in kind, but to have someone earning this kind of salary driving themselves about is a bit wasteful when it could be done for about 1/4 of the cost and be far more convenient and productive for the manager.

Regards,


Have you heard of taxis Ody?

When I worked for GSK if I wanted a driver to drive me somewhere then my secretary would get either a taxi or a chauffeur company to come a pick me up. There may have been one one two drivers permanently employed by the whole company to chauffeur main board directors around but that was it.

It used to make me laugh when I lived in York and caught the train down to Kings Cross, I'd be met by a fully liveried chauffeur with a Merc who would take me the final few miles to the London offices. At a cost twice that of the 200 mile first class train journey!

John


Nice anecdotes and as far as I know there are now more folk employed in this kind of business internally funded by companies, plus vastly more who do it via Uber and lyft etc.

As far as I can tell, unless we do get robot cars, the number of services providing transport to and from somewhere that are not public will continue to rise. Once I would never think of having a car to take me to and from the airport, but for the last several journeys that is exactly what I have done. Sure it costs me more than public transport, but I am not waiting about, I get to go just when I need to and I get picked up on my return. As I can specify the times I can catch flights that would require a lot of wait time if I was using public transport which generally are cheaper. I am about as cheap as one can get, but I do recognise the value in letting someone else drive me and I am sure that kind of thinking is very prevalent in business.

A neighbour who volunteered to do some tests for local government was picked up by uber or equivalent and brought back. He hadn't to wait around or spend a penny of his money. He wasn't employed, hasn't done anything with them since, but he got a service that once was only for very wealthy folk.

Regards,

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Re: Musk endeavours

#244917

Postby redsturgeon » August 16th, 2019, 9:32 pm

Howard wrote:
odysseus2000 wrote:
I can imagine that there may be a slight inconvenience, but if a leased car breaks the repair folk will have to come & collect it & bring you another car. Is this the worst possible scenario with a leased car, or are there worse things that could blight the life of the person who leases?

Regards,


And Ody

You should read this report of the experience of Stefan Moeller who began this year with an ambitious target: to make his car-rental company Nextmove the biggest Tesla Inc. customer in Germany by adding 100 Model 3s to its fleet.

He has more than 300 electric vehicles in his fleet, so he knows what he is talking about.

He spent two years waiting for the car maker to replace a seat in a Model X that was delivered in July 2017 with a hole in it.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... s-backyard

This isn't click bait. It is real customer experience.

regards

Howard


Thanks for this Howard. That has probably puts the lid on any Tesla model 3 interest from me. Here is a self confessed Tesla fan who says the Model three is the best there is but he has cancelled his order for another 85 of them because he can't get any assurances from Tesla that more than 25% of the new cars on order will be defect free. Not good enough. Not even worth test driving the car IMHO. I believe it is a good car but I'd require more than a 25% chance of a defect free car thanks.

If things change then I may reconsider. Let's hope VW can do better. Is making an electric car really that difficult?

John

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Re: Musk endeavours

#244933

Postby Howard » August 17th, 2019, 12:30 am

dspp wrote:1. My sales colleagues are very keen to sift out what they term "statements of insincere objections" early on in the sales process. I think you and I might term these people time-wasters. As far as I am concerned if you want a Tesla test drive for a bit of fun then find a friend with a Tesla. If you want to order a car then click to buy. For Tesla the problem at present is supply, not demand, so you have to decide whether you fish or cut bait. My colleagues who have bought S's had no problems getting a test drive, but they were sincere buyers.

2. One of my sales colleagues is still window shopping. They are well aware that waiting has fewer downsides than buying a new dino-juice car at this particular moment. So they will wait until they are sure. Meanwhile that's a sales that BMW/Merc/Volvo are not getting ......

regards, dspp


dspp

Worth looking at this video. Would you call this guy's problems with Tesla "statements of insincere objections".

It seems to me that he is speaking from the heart and at the end of his tether as a major supporter. let down pretty well every time he engaged with Tesla's sales operation. Watching this reminds me that those of us who have tried to road test a Tesla when we were in the market for a new car are fairly pleased we weren't foolish enough to pay for one without insisting on trying it first.

regards

Howard

Elektrek cover this as "Tesla loses major $5 million Model 3 order from rental company over service and quality issues".

https://electrek.co/2019/08/16/tesla-lo ... ty-issues/

but you have to watch the video on YouTube; It's subtitled from German

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boWp5Jq ... r_embedded

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Re: Musk endeavours

#244946

Postby redsturgeon » August 17th, 2019, 8:13 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uT6XU0bwtPs

Very interesting video of a UK driver using (or trying to use) autopilot to drive through Sunderland.

Looking at this video I'd say you would have to be very brave or very stupid to rely on autopilot at all in the UK.

It seems that it is much more trouble than just driving normally and does some very strange and risky things. On one road the driver was having to intervene every few seconds to avoid crashing into parked cars.

I guess it would be better on motorways but I would not want to be the test pilot!

John

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Re: Musk endeavours

#244952

Postby odysseus2000 » August 17th, 2019, 8:48 am

Good video.

Next move are defending themselves to show their punters the problems are not their fault.

Clear quality control & customer interactions are not good enough & Tesla need to raise their game.

There is nothing in this video that could not be fixed with a bit more effort from Tesla.

Musk needs to step in & raise the quality of what his employees are doing.

Trying to sell a second hand car as new is Dell Boy & the guy doing this needs reprimanding.

I expect Tesla will improve matters.

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Re: Musk endeavours

#244970

Postby Howard » August 17th, 2019, 9:52 am

I'm not very knowledgeable about autonomous driving, but this report caught my eye. Looks like an interesting trial.

https://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2019/08/ups-h ... -one-knew/

regards

Howard

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Re: Musk endeavours

#244989

Postby dspp » August 17th, 2019, 11:43 am

Howard wrote:
dspp wrote:1. My sales colleagues are very keen to sift out what they term "statements of insincere objections" early on in the sales process. I think you and I might term these people time-wasters. As far as I am concerned if you want a Tesla test drive for a bit of fun then find a friend with a Tesla. If you want to order a car then click to buy. For Tesla the problem at present is supply, not demand, so you have to decide whether you fish or cut bait. My colleagues who have bought S's had no problems getting a test drive, but they were sincere buyers.

2. One of my sales colleagues is still window shopping. They are well aware that waiting has fewer downsides than buying a new dino-juice car at this particular moment. So they will wait until they are sure. Meanwhile that's a sales that BMW/Merc/Volvo are not getting ......

regards, dspp


dspp

Worth looking at this video. Would you call this guy's problems with Tesla "statements of insincere objections".

It seems to me that he is speaking from the heart and at the end of his tether as a major supporter. let down pretty well every time he engaged with Tesla's sales operation. Watching this reminds me that those of us who have tried to road test a Tesla when we were in the market for a new car are fairly pleased we weren't foolish enough to pay for one without insisting on trying it first.

regards

Howard

Elektrek cover this as "Tesla loses major $5 million Model 3 order from rental company over service and quality issues".

https://electrek.co/2019/08/16/tesla-lo ... ty-issues/

but you have to watch the video on YouTube; It's subtitled from German

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boWp5Jq ... r_embedded


To me this looks like a combination of things, and some that we probably are not being told. The uber-cynic in me might even go so far as to term this "high pressure buying tactics", and as it happens I have dealt with some similar customers myself in the past. Yes they can be a brand's greatest allies, but it is always on a contingent transactional basis. So whilst I want Tesla to address the underlying issues (and indeed there seem to be some worth getting stuck into), it should only be on Tesla's terms. So yes in this instance the logical Tesla response was to cancel the remaining order (85 x Tesla model 3) and rebase the negotiation. I would have done the same thing myself if I had been sitting in the Tesla chair. And likely I would have gone public with a video if I had been sitting in the nextmove chair. Business can be bruising sometimes.

You can find some interesting reporting, Tesla riposte, and various commentary etc on this at https://electrek.co/2019/08/16/tesla-lo ... ty-issues/ .

regards, dspp

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Re: Musk endeavours

#245031

Postby Howard » August 17th, 2019, 2:07 pm

dspp wrote:
Howard wrote:
dspp wrote:1. My sales colleagues are very keen to sift out what they term "statements of insincere objections" early on in the sales process. I think you and I might term these people time-wasters. As far as I am concerned if you want a Tesla test drive for a bit of fun then find a friend with a Tesla. If you want to order a car then click to buy. For Tesla the problem at present is supply, not demand, so you have to decide whether you fish or cut bait. My colleagues who have bought S's had no problems getting a test drive, but they were sincere buyers.

2. One of my sales colleagues is still window shopping. They are well aware that waiting has fewer downsides than buying a new dino-juice car at this particular moment. So they will wait until they are sure. Meanwhile that's a sales that BMW/Merc/Volvo are not getting ......

regards, dspp


dspp

Worth looking at this video. Would you call this guy's problems with Tesla "statements of insincere objections".

It seems to me that he is speaking from the heart and at the end of his tether as a major supporter. let down pretty well every time he engaged with Tesla's sales operation. Watching this reminds me that those of us who have tried to road test a Tesla when we were in the market for a new car are fairly pleased we weren't foolish enough to pay for one without insisting on trying it first.

regards

Howard

Elektrek cover this as "Tesla loses major $5 million Model 3 order from rental company over service and quality issues".

https://electrek.co/2019/08/16/tesla-lo ... ty-issues/

but you have to watch the video on YouTube; It's subtitled from German

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boWp5Jq ... r_embedded


To me this looks like a combination of things, and some that we probably are not being told. The uber-cynic in me might even go so far as to term this "high pressure buying tactics", and as it happens I have dealt with some similar customers myself in the past. Yes they can be a brand's greatest allies, but it is always on a contingent transactional basis. So whilst I want Tesla to address the underlying issues (and indeed there seem to be some worth getting stuck into), it should only be on Tesla's terms. So yes in this instance the logical Tesla response was to cancel the remaining order (85 x Tesla model 3) and rebase the negotiation. I would have done the same thing myself if I had been sitting in the Tesla chair. And likely I would have gone public with a video if I had been sitting in the nextmove chair. Business can be bruising sometimes.

You can find some interesting reporting, Tesla riposte, and various commentary etc on this at https://electrek.co/2019/08/16/tesla-lo ... ty-issues/ .

regards, dspp


I'm not sure why you are playing back the Elektrek link I quoted in my post. But if you look at the comment by Andreas Thaler he sums up the video pretty well.


He says: "Allow me to summarize:

Nextmove has received lots of Tesla cars with defects among the 80+ cars they have bought from Tesla.
(They have 370 electric cars from different manufacturers overall)
Those defects cause them to lose money from having already paid for the car but not being able to give it to the rental customer.
This never happens with other manufacturers of electric cars, where the dealers have an incentive to resolve problems.
Currently they have 15 open delivery defects on cars where they are still waiting for Tesla to provide a solution, without update.
Teslas answer in such cases typically is "Take it of leave it", and once the car is taken over no solution happens.
They discussed with German Tesla top management a solution, which would be a revised process where they take over the car, test it, and if there are defects, they set a deadline until which these get resolved.
Shortly after agreeing this revised delivery schedule with Tesla, Tesla came back and said they don't want to follow the agreed schedule, and as the cars were ordered under the old schedule, Tesla canceled the open order for 85 cars.
They also said they ordered vehicles from Tesla, received the VIN number with confirmation it was a new car, and shortly before delivery received a different VIN number. When registering the car, they found out the car had already been registered and was thus no longer available for the EV bonus payment from the government. Also, Tesla could not provide them with an invoice for tax purposes. Alternative: cancel the order."


The Uber cynic in me suggests that this is just the tip of the iceberg for Tesla. They may be running out of "punters" who will take substandard cars or substandard service. Yes, a perfect Model 3 is a nice car. But the extra beta grade electronics and poor finish on a high percentage of their cars is going to tarnish their reputation. And discriminating motorists won't be happy.

Ironically, the missing part of the Tesla offer, is a competent chain of Main Dealers!

If they had dealers handling the supply of cars to customers in Europe they would probably save money on repairing Teslas and build a good reputation for service. Dealers would be feeding back valuable information on how to build quality into the cars. A lot of paint defects could probably be quickly fixed and minor software issues sorted by dealers who know how to do this much better than Tesla.

The Uber cynic might suggest that Tesla's sales force are frightened to feed back the problems to Head Office as they are likely to be the messengers fired for communicating anything but praise for the brand. For example, someone really has to tell Elon Musk that Autonomous Driving is a joke on European roads.

Yes, companies like Amazon are crucifying retail shops, but if one has a problem with a car one really needs a responsive local physical dealer to drive it to.

Anyway we cynics will be watching the share price. The market will weigh Tesla's competence and ultimately deliver its verdict.

regards

Howard

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Re: Musk endeavours

#245038

Postby dspp » August 17th, 2019, 2:47 pm

Howard wrote:
dspp wrote:
Howard wrote:
dspp

Worth looking at this video. Would you call this guy's problems with Tesla "statements of insincere objections".



To me this looks like a combination of things, and some that we probably are not being told. The uber-cynic in me might even go so far as to term this "high pressure buying tactics", and as it happens I have dealt with some similar customers myself in the past. Yes they can be a brand's greatest allies, but it is always on a contingent transactional basis. So whilst I want Tesla to address the underlying issues (and indeed there seem to be some worth getting stuck into), it should only be on Tesla's terms. So yes in this instance the logical Tesla response was to cancel the remaining order (85 x Tesla model 3) and rebase the negotiation. I would have done the same thing myself if I had been sitting in the Tesla chair. And likely I would have gone public with a video if I had been sitting in the nextmove chair. Business can be bruising sometimes.

You can find some interesting reporting, Tesla riposte, and various commentary etc on this at https://electrek.co/2019/08/16/tesla-lo ... ty-issues/ .

regards, dspp


I'm not sure why you are playing back the Elektrek link I quoted in my post. But if you look at the comment by Andreas Thaler he sums up the video pretty well.


He says: "Allow me to summarize:

Alternative: cancel the order."


Anyway we cynics will be watching the share price. The market will weigh Tesla's competence and ultimately deliver its verdict.

regards

Howard


It is notable that it was Tesla that cancelled the order. That tells me where is the power in this relationship.

nextmove, like all rental companies, make a significant fraction of their revenue by buying cheap using a volume discount. They put a few miles on the clock and resell dear to buyers who cannot get a volume discount. They are very needy and demanding clients, who have negotiated a discount.

It seems that they are being too needy. Tesla will shift these cars through another channel. Tesla don't want quite such a needy customer. nextmove's only response is to go public in a baby pram toy moment.

- dspp

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Re: Musk endeavours

#245045

Postby Howard » August 17th, 2019, 3:14 pm

dspp wrote:
Howard wrote:
dspp wrote:
To me this looks like a combination of things, and some that we probably are not being told. The uber-cynic in me might even go so far as to term this "high pressure buying tactics", and as it happens I have dealt with some similar customers myself in the past. Yes they can be a brand's greatest allies, but it is always on a contingent transactional basis. So whilst I want Tesla to address the underlying issues (and indeed there seem to be some worth getting stuck into), it should only be on Tesla's terms. So yes in this instance the logical Tesla response was to cancel the remaining order (85 x Tesla model 3) and rebase the negotiation. I would have done the same thing myself if I had been sitting in the Tesla chair. And likely I would have gone public with a video if I had been sitting in the nextmove chair. Business can be bruising sometimes.

You can find some interesting reporting, Tesla riposte, and various commentary etc on this at https://electrek.co/2019/08/16/tesla-lo ... ty-issues/ .

regards, dspp


I'm not sure why you are playing back the Elektrek link I quoted in my post. But if you look at the comment by Andreas Thaler he sums up the video pretty well.


He says: "Allow me to summarize:

Alternative: cancel the order."


Anyway we cynics will be watching the share price. The market will weigh Tesla's competence and ultimately deliver its verdict.

regards

Howard


It is notable that it was Tesla that cancelled the order. That tells me where is the power in this relationship.

nextmove, like all rental companies, make a significant fraction of their revenue by buying cheap using a volume discount. They put a few miles on the clock and resell dear to buyers who cannot get a volume discount. They are very needy and demanding clients, who have negotiated a discount.

It seems that they are being too needy. Tesla will shift these cars through another channel. Tesla don't want quite such a needy customer. nextmove's only response is to go public in a baby pram toy moment.

- dspp


Tesla sold less than 500 cars in Germany and their biggest European market, Norway, in July and sales in other European countries are falling away so, yes by shifting cancelled orders they may be matching demand and supply, but not in the optimum manner.

regarda

Howard

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Re: Musk endeavours

#245053

Postby odysseus2000 » August 17th, 2019, 4:04 pm

Tesla sold less than 500 cars in Germany and their biggest European market, Norway, in July and sales in other European countries are falling away so, yes by shifting cancelled orders they may be matching demand and supply, but not in the optimum manner.

regarda

Howard


Nextmove have certainly put out a good video which at my first pass I was not happy with Tesla which may be the aim of the video.

Maybe it's all about margin with Tesla having higher margins selling to someone else.

I would guess nextmove have many sore customers who have paid nextmove for a car & now nextmove have no cars, so their video is about face saving for their punter base.

Clearly if what nextmove say about selling second hand cars is true, then Tesla have been naughty, but we don't have Tesla's take nor do we know what nextmove were paying.

Perhaps by Tesla having cancelled they believe they can sell at higher margins elsewhere & in the meantime nextmoves punters if they still want a Tesla are going else where.

It may even be that nextmove were paid to make the video tarnishing Tesla by one of the other manufacturers.

The more I think about the nextmove video the more it becomes suspect. If as they assert Tesla has the best cars then their punters will want one, going out with this video probably means nextmove will not get anymore cars & nextmove are saving their face & defending why they haven't got Tesla to sell.

Nextmove look like they are used to dealing with a dealer network & having the dealer deal with all aspects of the cars & are not able to operate in the Tesla model with no dealer network.

Having reflected on this video & dspp comments especially that Tesla had cancelled the order has changed how I view this entirely & I now believe Tesla have acted in a sensible way & that nextmove have shot themselves in the foot.

Regards,


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