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Musk endeavours

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dspp
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Re: Musk endeavours

#251789

Postby dspp » September 14th, 2019, 11:56 am

"Britain-based motoring publication What Car?‘s recent Reliability Survey included a rather surprising addition this year. Amidst the magazine’s Top 10 list of most reliable carmakers in the UK lies Tesla at No.4 ..........Tesla ranked 4th place with an overall score of 96.9%. ........Overall, Tesla was only exceeded by a trifecta of Japanese brands comprised of Lexus (99.3%), Toyota (97.7%), and Suzuki (97.3%)"

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-4th-mos ... 9-results/

regards, dspp

Howard
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Re: Musk endeavours

#251800

Postby Howard » September 14th, 2019, 1:13 pm

dspp

It pays to read the detail rather than just accept Tesla fans' opinions. :D As a non-engineer I'm surprised that you didn't drill down a little. ;)

If you read the Whatcar report you will see that it says

"A four-year/50,000-mile warranty is standard, while the battery is covered for eight years, no matter how many miles you do. Plus, Tesla’s wireless software updates fix glitches and add features while you're asleep, rather than requiring you to book your car into a dealer.

It's good that the warranty is so impressive, because our latest reliability survey makes pretty grim reading for Tesla. The American manufacturer finished third from bottom in our list of 32 manufacturers, while the Model S was the least reliable electric car."

So actually, like the "Which" survey Tesla scores very badly on reliability when compared with other car manufacturers.

regards

Howard

See:

https://www.whatcar.com/tesla/model-s/h ... ing-owning

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Re: Musk endeavours

#252228

Postby Howard » September 16th, 2019, 3:28 pm

Obviously JLR aren't a big player in electric cars yet and their CEO will have an angle to promote, but what he says in this article is an interesting view of the future.

He makes the point that in the UK there is a need to improve the charging infrastructure to encourage motorists to switch to electric cars.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/indu ... eaper-soon

Personally I'd be very happy with a range of 200 miles for a second car. Particularly if topping up charging is quick and easy.

regards

Howard

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Re: Musk endeavours

#252233

Postby redsturgeon » September 16th, 2019, 3:46 pm

Howard wrote:
Personally I'd be very happy with a range of 200 miles for a second car. Particularly if topping up charging is quick and easy.

regards

Howard


Me too, I think the range factor is obviously a bigger issue in the USA than somewhere compact and densely populated like England.

John

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Re: Musk endeavours

#252247

Postby odysseus2000 » September 16th, 2019, 4:38 pm

Howard wrote:Obviously JLR aren't a big player in electric cars yet and their CEO will have an angle to promote, but what he says in this article is an interesting view of the future.

He makes the point that in the UK there is a need to improve the charging infrastructure to encourage motorists to switch to electric cars.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/indu ... eaper-soon

Personally I'd be very happy with a range of 200 miles for a second car. Particularly if topping up charging is quick and easy.

regards

Howard


Let me translate:

We can't make cars with longer range and the ones we do make are very inefficient compared to Tesla. So rather than spending some money on engineering and/or license Tesla batteries and power trains and fix our issues we have to emphasise that it is not our engineers and capital allocation that are at fault but the government for not providing enough electric points.

Tata management should sack him now and appoint someone who hasn't got lazyitus. He is talking like every UK motor boss I ever knew and as they fiddled the UK car industry collapsed. Watch out Tata, learn from history!

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Re: Musk endeavours

#252269

Postby Howard » September 16th, 2019, 5:54 pm

Ody

Here's another article to get your teeth into. :D

We've discussed some of these VW issues, but this is a good summary of their BEV plans.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/429178 ... attle?dr=1

regards

Howard

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Re: Musk endeavours

#252284

Postby odysseus2000 » September 16th, 2019, 7:31 pm

Howard wrote:Ody

Here's another article to get your teeth into. :D

We've discussed some of these VW issues, but this is a good summary of their BEV plans.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/429178 ... attle?dr=1

regards

Howard


Ok here is my translation:

We are making shed loads from our ice cars, all the machinery is depreciating nicely & we can run it down & not bother with anymore capex. But we need to give the impression that we are going into heavy BEV production, so let's trumpet one factory with modest capacity, which we won't use fully & as we can't make batteries we will sub contract to other folk making batteries that were good for a few years ago, no sense trying to match Tesla battery tech which is way better. We will sell these low range vehicles on price to folk who believe our marketing & in the mean time we will go to our favourite gods & pray that Tesla make some very bad errors. If they do then great, if not we will buy BMW & use that rescue as an excuse not to get too serious about BEV for many more years & we will lobby our politicians to avoid any painful carbon taxes & pray they listen. Those swines are Tesla have put us in a real fix here, but with luck & lobbying we won't get hurt too much so long as the Chinese don't start under cutting us, in which case we will go to our politicians & ask for big tarrifs.

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Re: Musk endeavours

#252311

Postby BobbyD » September 16th, 2019, 9:41 pm

odysseus2000 wrote:
Howard wrote:Ody

Here's another article to get your teeth into. :D

We've discussed some of these VW issues, but this is a good summary of their BEV plans.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/429178 ... attle?dr=1

regards

Howard


Ok here is my translation:

We are making shed loads from our ice cars, all the machinery is depreciating nicely & we can run it down & not bother with anymore capex. But we need to give the impression that we are going into heavy BEV production, so let's trumpet one factory with modest capacity, which we won't use fully & as we can't make batteries we will sub contract to other folk making batteries that were good for a few years ago, no sense trying to match Tesla battery tech which is way better. We will sell these low range vehicles on price to folk who believe our marketing & in the mean time we will go to our favourite gods & pray that Tesla make some very bad errors. If they do then great, if not we will buy BMW & use that rescue as an excuse not to get too serious about BEV for many more years & we will lobby our politicians to avoid any painful carbon taxes & pray they listen. Those swines are Tesla have put us in a real fix here, but with luck & lobbying we won't get hurt too much so long as the Chinese don't start under cutting us, in which case we will go to our politicians & ask for big tarrifs.

Regards,


I have to admire your dedication Ody. Poking out both of your eyes takes some dedication.

You've got VW exactly the wrong way round. They don't see BEV's as a threat. VW have scale and a massive R&D budget. They make 10 million cars a year. Their R&D isn't just sector leading, it is world leading. Expensive new technology with complicated supply lines isn't a threat to VW it is an opportunity.

The people it's a threat to are the competition. They have less scale. They have less money. The risk for them is far greater. Unless they buy in the technology... Like say Ford, who rather than develop their own technology have asked VW for 600,000 units of MEB.

If the ID3 is low range so is the model 3...

Zwickau's modest capacity is higher than Tesla's total capacity, and that's the first European factory. There will be more, as well as plants in China and America.

...and unlike Tesla VW actually own a piece of a battery company.

If BEV's fail it will be more expensive for VW than dieselgate.

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Re: Musk endeavours

#252321

Postby BobbyD » September 16th, 2019, 11:08 pm

Elon Musk claims he didn't intend to accuse British diver of pedophilia

Elon Musk is continuing to try to wriggle his way out of a defamation lawsuit, claiming in a court filing on Monday that a tweet labeling a British diver “pedo guy” was not meant to actually accuse him of pedophilia.

...Musk responded with a series of erratic tweets calling Unsworth a “pedo guy”. He later called him a “child rapist” in emails to a BuzzFeed reporter.

Musk’s lawyers have argued these statements were simply insults, not accusations.

...“There is no evidence that Mr Musk intended or believed that his July 15 tweets, that Mr Unsworth was ‘sus’ or ‘pedo guy’, would be interpreted as fact,” the filing said. “To the contrary, the evidence is that Mr Musk believed and intended his statements to be read as what they were: bare insults.”

...This defense comes despite follow-up tweets from Musk, which said “bet you a signed dollar it’s true”, implying he indeed believed Unsworth was a pedophile. Lawyers for Musk said said in Monday’s court filing that while his initial tweets were intended as a joke, he continued to call Unsworth a “pedo guy” in subsequent tweets because of “disturbing information” allegedly uncovered in a private investigation funded by Musk himself.

“The investigator reported that Mr Unsworth was a fixture in Pattaya Beach, Thailand – a locale notorious for prostitution and child trafficking, that he had a taste for young Thai girls, that he whoremongered his way through the go-go bars of Thailand, that his only friends were his ‘sexpat’ peers, and that he married his Thai wife when she was a teenager, after starting a relationship when she was a young girl,” the response from Musk’s lawyers reads.


- https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... weet-diver

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Re: Musk endeavours

#252328

Postby odysseus2000 » September 17th, 2019, 1:55 am

VW have a factory which they believe will have a capacity of 330,000 BEV cars per year, but don't expect to use all of it for their cars.

So at best this represents 330,000/10,000,000 = 3.3% BEV out of total capacity.

It is a token effort designed to look good to regulators & politicians with claimed ranges that won't be met in practice to make sure their ice cars keep selling.

Regards,

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Re: Musk endeavours

#252486

Postby BobbyD » September 18th, 2019, 12:03 am

odysseus2000 wrote:VW have a factory which they believe will have a capacity of 330,000 BEV cars per year, but don't expect to use all of it for their cars.

So at best this represents 330,000/10,000,000 = 3.3% BEV out of total capacity.

It is a token effort designed to look good to regulators & politicians with claimed ranges that won't be met in practice to make sure their ice cars keep selling.

Regards,


If they are producing 330k BEV's what does it matter what proportion of their total output that makes up?

Could you explain how they are going to keep their crown in China without selling BEV's out there?

UFC Fighter Plays Smash While His Tesla Drives Itself

- Lee posted a video of himself yesterday driving to Montréal, his Tesla in control as he stuck a Nintendo Switch to his windscreen and played some Smash.


- https://kotaku.com/ufc-fighter-plays-sm ... 1838164053

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Re: Musk endeavours

#252532

Postby odysseus2000 » September 18th, 2019, 1:54 pm

BobbyD

If they are producing 330k BEV's what does it matter what proportion of their total output that makes up?

Could you explain how they are going to keep their crown in China without selling BEV's out there?


Because it illustrates that VW are not aiming to go BEV, just to make enough to keep the politicians happy so that they can keep flogging ICE.

VW are now up against several Chinese makers who will want as much of the Chinese and European market that they can get and Chinese will compete on price and quality.

Regards,

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Re: Musk endeavours

#252538

Postby tjh290633 » September 18th, 2019, 3:26 pm

odysseus2000 wrote:
BobbyD

If they are producing 330k BEV's what does it matter proportion of their total output that makes up?

Could you explain how they are going to keep their crown in China without selling BEV's out there?


Because it illustrates that VW are not aiming to go BEV, just to make enough to keep the politicians happy so that they can keep flogging ICE.

VW are now up against several Chinese makers who will want as much of the Chinese and European market that they can get and Chinese will compete on price and quality.

Regards,

Rubbish. It just means that they see a gradual and perhaps only partial transition to battery powered vehicles. Don't forget that hydrogen is a possible and more attractive alternative.

TJH

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Re: Musk endeavours

#252547

Postby BobbyD » September 18th, 2019, 4:23 pm

tjh290633 wrote:
odysseus2000 wrote:
BobbyD

If they are producing 330k BEV's what does it matter proportion of their total output that makes up?

Could you explain how they are going to keep their crown in China without selling BEV's out there?


Because it illustrates that VW are not aiming to go BEV, just to make enough to keep the politicians happy so that they can keep flogging ICE.

VW are now up against several Chinese makers who will want as much of the Chinese and European market that they can get and Chinese will compete on price and quality.

Regards,

Rubbish. It just means that they see a gradual and perhaps only partial transition to battery powered vehicles. Don't forget that hydrogen is a possible and more attractive alternative.

TJH


It's almost like they are planning to scale their BEV production to BEV demand, increasing their production as BEV becomes more widespread at the same time advancing the development of the market through the scale and expertise they bring, and using a phased transition to avoid significant disruption to their overall output...

Still, as the thought processes of a profitable company I can see why the Teslarati have difficulty understanding the idea. I guess we should acknowledge progress though. we've moved from a counter argument of VW's BEV's are all vapourware which will they will never produce to they are only going to produce more BEV's than anybody else has managed so far...

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Re: Musk endeavours

#252785

Postby BobbyD » September 19th, 2019, 11:30 pm

odysseus2000 wrote:VW are now up against several Chinese makers who will want as much of the Chinese and European market that they can get and Chinese will compete on price and quality.


Several of those Chinese competitors are VW...

VW sell more cars in China than anybody else.

This isn't exactly new territory for them.

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Re: Musk endeavours

#252853

Postby dspp » September 20th, 2019, 10:33 am

tjh290633 wrote:Rubbish. It just means that they see a gradual and perhaps only partial transition to battery powered vehicles. Don't forget that hydrogen is a possible and more attractive alternative.

TJH


Hydrogen is a dead-end pathway, except for some industrial process clusters. I do not expect to see it seriously used in vehicles (either FC or ICE) and certainly not in domestic heating irrespective of the fantasies otherwise.

just imho, dspp

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Re: Musk endeavours

#252859

Postby redsturgeon » September 20th, 2019, 10:57 am

I see Amazon is looking to have a fleet of delivery vans from Rivian with whom they have a large investment. 100,000 in the next ten years, biggest EV order ever. Last few mile delivery vans make perfect sense for BEV especially with emission zones becoming stricter in cities.

https://eu.detroitnews.com/story/busine ... 373507001/

John

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Re: Musk endeavours

#252886

Postby odysseus2000 » September 20th, 2019, 1:09 pm

So we now have the global phenomenon of climate strikes:

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Climate ... 2649581569

Meanwhile VW are aiming for < 3% BEV.

Here we have the modus operandi of VW:

https://twitter.com/donttrythis/status/ ... 85824?s=20

Once you have manufacturing business run by folk who have no scientific or engineering training you get things like the collapse of the UK auto industry and now we see VW following the same route to extinction.

Regards,

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Re: Musk endeavours

#252894

Postby tjh290633 » September 20th, 2019, 1:32 pm

dspp wrote:
tjh290633 wrote:Rubbish. It just means that they see a gradual and perhaps only partial transition to battery powered vehicles. Don't forget that hydrogen is a possible and more attractive alternative.

TJH


Hydrogen is a dead-end pathway, except for some industrial process clusters. I do not expect to see it seriously used in vehicles (either FC or ICE) and certainly not in domestic heating irrespective of the fantasies otherwise.

just imho, dspp

Don't forget that our town's gas contained a high proportion of hydrogen, before the change to natural gas. Vehicles ran on that and my grandfather's printing works was driven by a small gas engine.

TJH

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Re: Musk endeavours

#252907

Postby odysseus2000 » September 20th, 2019, 2:43 pm

tjh290633 wrote:
dspp wrote:
tjh290633 wrote:Rubbish. It just means that they see a gradual and perhaps only partial transition to battery powered vehicles. Don't forget that hydrogen is a possible and more attractive alternative.

TJH


Hydrogen is a dead-end pathway, except for some industrial process clusters. I do not expect to see it seriously used in vehicles (either FC or ICE) and certainly not in domestic heating irrespective of the fantasies otherwise.

just imho, dspp

Don't forget that our town's gas contained a high proportion of hydrogen, before the change to natural gas. Vehicles ran on that and my grandfather's printing works was driven by a small gas engine.

TJH


Let us also not forget that all new houses are to be built with no open fires or gas appliances due to climate concerns and the ongoing switch to a fully electric national fuel policy.

The chance of hydrogen becoming a major fuel for anything is imho zero. Yes, many companies still tout it and spend the odd farthing on it, but that imho is all about keeping politicians from too much meddling.

Regards,


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