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Musk endeavours

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PeterGray
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Re: Musk endeavours

#155245

Postby PeterGray » July 26th, 2018, 9:19 am

old layouts such as the Golf with just a different engine and batteries and not designed from the bottom up as an electric car.

Ody, big manufacturers are already making electric cars designed from the ground up as electric, in larger numbers than Tesla in the case of Nissan.

We're already seeing Jaguar and Porsche with ground up designed performance cars coming through. Your belief that big auto isn't capable of, and isn't already, designing electric cars from the ground up is based on a fantasy. You criticise those who criticise Musk, but your bias towards him and Tesla is massive.

Peter

redsturgeon
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Re: Musk endeavours

#155254

Postby redsturgeon » July 26th, 2018, 9:41 am

odysseus2000 wrote:
Sure they sell well now, the question is will they continue to see well even with significantly worse safety, old layouts such as the Golf with just a different engine and batteries and not designed from the bottom up as an electric car.



BMW with its i3 and i8 seem to be on the case.

John

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Re: Musk endeavours

#155501

Postby BobbyD » July 27th, 2018, 5:01 am

Wall Street seizes on another front to bet against Tesla
Trading volumes in credit default swaps tied to the electric carmaker have jumped


https://www.ft.com/content/44c7e38c-905 ... 80cedcc421

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Wall+ ... e&ie=UTF-8

BobbyD
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Re: Musk endeavours

#155502

Postby BobbyD » July 27th, 2018, 5:23 am

also:

Musk and Tesla are not inseparable

https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2018/07/27/ ... separable/

Itsallaguess
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Re: Musk endeavours

#155710

Postby Itsallaguess » July 27th, 2018, 9:12 pm

Interesting article in the Guardian today, where their Energy Correspondent Adam Vaughan drove from Brighton to Edinburgh in a Tesla, and detailed some of the issues he had, especially with the granular charging infrastructure currently delivered in the UK -

“Oh, I rarely use those,” said Manoj Varathodiyil, gesturing at a pair of public electric car chargers at a West Midlands service station.

Instead, the GP has plugged his car into a “supercharger”, one of a network built by US electric carmaker Tesla, exclusively for the use of the firm’s customers. Varathodiyil, who went electric because of concerns over air pollution and fossil fuels, is one of Britain’s vanguard of 160,000 early adopters learning to live with a plug-in car.

Most of those drivers charge at home (87%) and work (8%). But the government wants to ban sales of new petrol and diesel cars by 2040 and recently laid out its Road to zero plan for getting there, envisaging “a massive expansion” of public chargers. For the 43% of households without off-street parking, that infrastructure will be vital if electric cars are to become the future norm.

But what about today? Is the road to zero riddled with potholes? To test the state of infrastructure now, the Guardian embarked on a grand tour of Britain’s car parks, service stations and hotels by driving an electric car from Brighton to Edinburgh.


https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... -edinburgh

An interesting read for anyone keen on the technology. Apparently the UK networks currently have 17,281 charging connectors in seven different connection-configurations, and woe-betide if you're stuck with having to use a slow-charger for part of your journey top-up....

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

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Re: Musk endeavours

#156960

Postby ReformedCharacter » August 3rd, 2018, 1:54 pm

Tesla short sellers lose $1.7bn as shares soar 16pc:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/ ... soar-16pc/

RC

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Re: Musk endeavours

#157761

Postby odysseus2000 » August 7th, 2018, 6:55 pm

I am abroad doing volunteer work and having a vacation from posting, but this Musk tweet caused me to have such a smile that I felt compelled to post it here:

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1026872652290379776

If Musk does this then it will be an issue for the shorts, and there are a lot of them.

If he takes Tesla private via open market buy he can lock up shares and refuse loans. Anyone short now has the rest of the day to cover or knows something I don't, but if loans are refused shorts will have to cover but they will likely have to do so at well above the $420 buy back.

Of course it might not be an open market buy, but even so with funding in place at $420 all the short arguments are kaput.

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Re: Musk endeavours

#157784

Postby odysseus2000 » August 7th, 2018, 9:09 pm

This gets more and more fun:

https://www.tesla.com/blog/taking-tesla ... edirect=no

Very nice that he is happy to let shareholders continue to hold

The closest analogy that comes to mind is when Branson floated part of Virgin and the price went down and so he just bought the whole business back
at the offer price, giving everyone who was underwater at least their money back.

Since that time Virgin has gone from strength to strength and the value of a share would be very substantially more than was paid at the buyback.

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odysseus2000
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Re: Musk endeavours

#157857

Postby odysseus2000 » August 8th, 2018, 8:33 am

Interesting discussions all over re this, with a bunch of folk in disbelief and shorting more, or saying they are.

Imho anyone who is shorting more here, better have some serious and detailed knowledge that is well beyond anything I have. This is possible, but if they haven't I have to wonder if they are just trying to bait in mugs.

One issue is the funding. Musk said he has funding in place, but hasn't filed any forms to say so, but as this is about taking Tesla private it could all be a cashless transfer, i.e. 1 new private share for each existing public share.

All in all I like the proposal greatly, again referencing everything to Branson's decision to take Virgin back private. Removing Tesla stock from the public market place means that there is no point to anyone trying to trash the company having gone short and decisions can be made without having to deal with the needs to keep folk happy during the quarterly reports.

There are many folk who question everything and anything and the surge in this kind of posting on social media has been very interesting, but as things are I feel sorry that these folk are either trying to hurt other folk or that they are so deluded.

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PeterGray
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Re: Musk endeavours

#157865

Postby PeterGray » August 8th, 2018, 9:29 am

Seems to make good sense to me.

Well, it would certainly make sense to him, he wouldn't have to do all that "boring" stuff like justifying himself to analysts and shareholders, and thinking before he tweets. Whether it's likely to be a good long terms outcome for Tesla is perhaps a different issue!

Peter

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Re: Musk endeavours

#157868

Postby toofast2live » August 8th, 2018, 9:41 am

I have never been involved with a 75B$ deal, but believe me when I say that a 100M$ dollar deal involves a large army of lawyers and bankers. No way has he got the funding securely in place. Tweeting can be bad for your health!

Unless you see proof of funds and a term sheet I would return to taking the Kool Aid
Last edited by toofast2live on August 8th, 2018, 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

PeterGray
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Re: Musk endeavours

#157870

Postby PeterGray » August 8th, 2018, 9:43 am


Meatyfool
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Re: Musk endeavours

#157872

Postby Meatyfool » August 8th, 2018, 9:48 am

If the "funding secured" refers to the Saudi sovereign wealth fund (and that still is a big if), then having a very deep pocket does mean that he can fund *ALL* of his big ideas at once and steal a march on the competitors who *ARE* catching up.

If he can fund the semi, Model Y and all the other big ideas he has lined up without having to deal with short term thinkers ...

As it is a sovereign wealth fund, one would hope they are long term thinkers!

Meatyfool..

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Re: Musk endeavours

#157899

Postby BobbyD » August 8th, 2018, 12:52 pm

toofast2live wrote:I have never been involved with a 75B$ deal, but believe me when I say that a 100M$ dollar deal involves a large army of lawyers and bankers. No way has he got the funding securely in place. Tweeting can be bad for your health!

Unless you see proof of funds and a term sheet I would return to taking the Kool Aid


Set to reopen $40 below offer price, so your reservations don't appear to be lonely.

Although if that is the case then there's talk of market manipulation repercussions which would be unpleasant.

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Re: Musk endeavours

#157901

Postby onthemove » August 8th, 2018, 12:56 pm

odysseus2000 wrote:One issue is the funding. Musk said he has funding in place, but hasn't filed any forms to say so, but as this is about taking Tesla private it could all be a cashless transfer, i.e. 1 new private share for each existing public share.


But what about the $420 per share considering being offered to people who didn't want to hold untradeable shares?

Anyone taking up such an offer would expect cold hard ca$SSh .

That is the offer that Musk seemed to indicate he was considering, and in theory such an offer could be taken up by all shareholders.

With the shares then being private/unlisted, anyone staying would be taking a huge gamble... importantly, there'd be no means of exit if you had second thoughts, or the company's fortunes turned more to the south.

For many people, I'd suspect the offer of a $420 per share parachute now, at a premium for many to what they paid, or no money at all now combined with a lock in, with no (or very limited) access to the exits, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a high take up of the £420 (if finally offered).

But that assumes the funding really is in place... if you're in a position like his in a company, you could end up in big trouble if you give the market the impression such funding is in place, if it actually isn't - even if you haven't yet decided whether to go ahead with the idea or not.

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Re: Musk endeavours

#157911

Postby TUK020 » August 8th, 2018, 1:24 pm

Has he already achieved what he wanted to do?
Burned a whole bunch of short sellers........

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Re: Musk endeavours

#157916

Postby odysseus2000 » August 8th, 2018, 1:34 pm

onthemove
But what about the $420 per share considering being offered to people who didn't want to hold untradeable shares?

Anyone taking up such an offer would expect cold hard ca$SSh .

That is the offer that Musk seemed to indicate he was considering, and in theory such an offer could be taken up by all shareholders.

With the shares then being private/unlisted, anyone staying would be taking a huge gamble... importantly, there'd be no means of exit if you had second thoughts, or the company's fortunes turned more to the south.

For many people, I'd suspect the offer of a $420 per share parachute now, at a premium for many to what they paid, or no money at all now combined with a lock in, with no (or very limited) access to the exits, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a high take up of the £420 (if finally offered).

But that assumes the funding really is in place... if you're in a position like his in a company, you could end up in big trouble if you give the market the impression such funding is in place, if it actually isn't - even if you haven't yet decided whether to go ahead with the idea or not.


I suspect a lot of the Tesla share holders are believers and many will remain and if so then the cost of going private
will be limited to the folk who take the $420. Most of the haters are either short or not involved.

I doubt Musk would tweet that funding is in place if it isn't, that would open him up to litigation.

There is the issue of exchanging a traceable security for an limit-trade-able one, but equal well anyone not in at the privatisation could find getting in
later difficult.

I believe the biggest risk here is the health of Musk. If he remains fit and productive the shares now are imho very cheap, but if he was to be taken out in some way then the shares would become expensive.

Everything depends upon whether an investor believes that the probability of Musk continuing to innovate is high.

Currently I am likely to take the private shares.

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Re: Musk endeavours

#157921

Postby BobbyD » August 8th, 2018, 1:43 pm

TUK020 wrote:Has he already achieved what he wanted to do?
Burned a whole bunch of short sellers........


Crossed my mind, but if it's true the victory is going to be Pyrrhic.

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Re: Musk endeavours

#157933

Postby odysseus2000 » August 8th, 2018, 2:13 pm

TUK020
Has he already achieved what he wanted to do?
Burned a whole bunch of short sellers........


Shorts have have borrowed stock which they have sold in the belief that the price will go lower so that they can buy it back and pocket the differenc
If instead the stock goes up they still have to buy back what they have sold but at a higher price.e

Should the privatisation happen then it will be forced buy back as the folk who loaned the shares will either want to take the private shares or sell the shares they have and so they will have to get them back from the short sellers who will have to buy them from holders.

Losses for shorts in such a forced buy back would be painful as it becomes a sellers market.

There are a substantial number of posters on social media who claim that Musk has acted illegally, but SEC aren't saying so.

Others say Musk hasn't got the money which is a dangerous belief, especially if a good % of the holders take the private stock. There are some big holders including MUSK and likely imho enough to secure the vote which will be needed.

Others are encouraging folk to load up more short which suggests to me that such folk are short and desperate to buy back and/or are baiting in fools or that they are clueless.

IMHO most investors/traders should not mess with Tesla as its too difficult, but no one cares what I think.

This could easily become another Virgin with big dividends for holders of private stock or it could flop. If you don't like those odds, best to stay away.

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Re: Musk endeavours

#157937

Postby BobbyD » August 8th, 2018, 2:34 pm

odysseus2000 wrote:Others say Musk hasn't got the money which is a dangerous belief, especially if a good % of the holders take the private stock.


If you say the finance is secured you'd better have all the money, not the money you think you might need.


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