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Non-UK resident with UK based share dealing account

Financial discussion for any financial queries for Expats
DiamondEcho
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Re: Non-UK resident with UK based share dealing account

#94320

Postby DiamondEcho » November 9th, 2017, 10:27 am

MoVert wrote:Two items in particular - a mobile phone number and a UK National Insurance number I do not have. Where I live and work there is no usable mobile signal. I get by quite happily without. I cannot supply a UK NI number as I'm not a UK resident. I can see this might be a problem trying to set up any other account. Is there a sensible broker out there suitable for a non-resident HYP style investor of UK shares ? Is there another approach I can use. I am no longer growing my HYP, just drawing dividends, so trades are very few in number. I just need to be able to hold the shares and a few gilts I have and draw the dividend income, occassionaly reinvesting surplus cash. :(


The UK-NI number, if you've ever had one then it's yours for life, well that's my understanding. It's necessary to have a UK-NI number to file UK tax returns, even when non-resident. That applies to many UK expats, anyone renting out their former home for example.
re: mobile number, that sounds to me like simple 'computer says no' box-ticking mentioned up-thread. They are presuming everyone has a mobile; they're probably using it to triangulate some form of confirmation of your ID/credit record based on an assumption all applicants are UK based...?
There are other brokers who will take non-resident Brits. But since they might be liable for foreign tax reporting to the government of the country where you live, IME this rules out smaller and domestically focused UK brokers.
I've moved my Interactive Brokers account with me across three non-UK countries. I opened it when living in Germany, but the dox required to open the account, at least the passport copy, had to be certified by the local British embassy. There are other box-ticking hurdles, like copies of utility bills (none of which were in my name), bank statements (maintaining a UK bank account is wise in this respect), but I explained my situation to them and the account was opened - that was now about 10 years ago, and generally speaking I'm very happy with them.

- I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has experience of holding a brokerage a/c trading mainly UK shares who has managed to open and/or maintain it whilst abroad. AFAIUI the possible brokerages that can do this are pretty limited, at least if you take out the full-service/$$$ ones.

dspp
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Re: Non-UK resident with UK based share dealing account

#94327

Postby dspp » November 9th, 2017, 10:54 am

DiamondEcho wrote:
- I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has experience of holding a brokerage a/c trading mainly UK shares who has managed to open and/or maintain it whilst abroad. AFAIUI the possible brokerages that can do this are pretty limited, at least if you take out the full-service/$$$ ones.


I have used Charles Stanley in the past when abroad, back a long time ago. regards, dspp

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Re: Non-UK resident with UK based share dealing account

#94342

Postby MoVert » November 9th, 2017, 11:25 am

"The UK-NI number, if you've ever had one then it's yours for life, well that's my understanding. It's necessary to have a UK-NI number to file UK tax returns, even when non-resident. That applies to many UK expats, anyone renting out their former home for example.
re: mobile number, that sounds to me like simple 'computer says no' box-ticking mentioned up-thread. They are presuming everyone has a mobile; they're probably using it to triangulate some form of confirmation of your ID/credit record based on an assumption all applicants are UK based...?"

Thanks. While I am British, I have no connection with the UK. I am not an expat. Just happen to have been born in a Crown Dependency.

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Re: Non-UK resident with UK based share dealing account

#94414

Postby Lootman » November 9th, 2017, 1:58 pm

Alaric wrote:
TedSwippet wrote:On the mobile phone part, I live in an area with great mobile phone coverage but I don't possess a mobile phone! A quick message to Interactive Investor was enough to make that 'requirement' go away for me. Perhaps that might work for you too.

As regards a phone number, I would have thought this wasn't compulsory and a land line number would be acceptable or failing that a number formatted like a phone number that wasn't actually one. It may be part of their security procedure for reset of passwords that a text message is sent. UK landlines can usually intercept text messages and read them out to you.

It's becoming increasingly prevalent and annoying that you need a mobile phone, and in some cases a smart phone, to conduct normal business these days. Financial accounts seem to want to send me texts even though I hate getting them, and hate even more replying to them. And I had to give up a parking space a while ago because the meter required me to text something. It's getting nuts (or maybe I'm getting old)

Also there is another problem. Even if you have a UK mobile phone it may not work when you are overseas, potentially cutting off access to your account. I really do not see why PIN and password resets cannot be done by email. Or worst case by ringing them from overseas and identifying yourself in a safe way.

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Re: Non-UK resident with UK based share dealing account

#94416

Postby DiamondEcho » November 9th, 2017, 2:04 pm

MoVert wrote:Thanks. While I am British, I have no connection with the UK. I am not an expat. Just happen to have been born in a Crown Dependency.


Ah, got it! Then isn't this another 'computer says now' exception on the part of TDW? Their compliance process assumes anyone with British nationality/passport will have an NI number? If I've visualised the kind of circumstances you're in correctly can't you tell TDW you've never lived/worked [as appropriate] in the UK and hence don't have an NI number?

For x-ref per below, could you tell TDW none of the below circumstances apply to you...
'National Insurance
1. Overview
You pay National Insurance contributions to qualify for certain benefits and the State Pension.
You pay National Insurance if you’re 16 or over and either:
an employee earning above £157 a week
self-employed and making a profit of £6,025 or more a year
You need a National Insurance number before you can start paying National Insurance contributions.'
https://www.gov.uk/national-insurance

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Re: Non-UK resident with UK based share dealing account

#94419

Postby dspp » November 9th, 2017, 2:10 pm

MoVert,

Thanks I now understand your circumstances.

Personally as a first step I would simply write (email) or phone iii / TD. The humans at the other end have always been perfectly reasonable whenever I have had an issue to resolve.

If you need another broker then as I said earlier Charles Stanley did it for me back in the day.

It is always helpful if you can let us all know how you resolve this in the end. That way we can point others in the right direction in the future.

regards, dspp

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Re: Non-UK resident with UK based share dealing account

#94434

Postby Lootman » November 9th, 2017, 2:38 pm

DiamondEcho wrote:
MoVert wrote:Thanks. While I am British, I have no connection with the UK. I am not an expat. Just happen to have been born in a Crown Dependency.

Ah, got it! Then isn't this another 'computer says no' exception on the part of TDW? Their compliance process assumes anyone with British nationality/passport will have an NI number?

Another class of people with a potential problem are those with foreign nationality who move to the UK but have no need to work (e.g. rich foreigners, those who marry a UK person etc.)

If they do not work or draw benefits then I would think that they would not have a NIN, so how could that be reasonably required of them? To my knowledge the UK does not have a law like the US, requiring all residents over the age of two to have a SSN.

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Re: Non-UK resident with UK based share dealing account

#94437

Postby PinkDalek » November 9th, 2017, 2:51 pm

Lootman wrote:Another class of people with a potential problem are those with foreign nationality who move to the UK but have no need to work (e.g. rich foreigners, those who marry a UK person etc.)

If they do not work or draw benefits then I would think that they would not have a NIN, so how could that be reasonably required of them? To my knowledge the UK does not have a law like the US, requiring all residents over the age of two to have a SSN.


I haven't delved deeper but this https://www.gov.uk/apply-national-insurance-number includes:

If you’re moving to the UK

You may have a National Insurance (NI) number printed on the back of your biometric residence permit (BRP). You don’t need to apply for a National Insurance number if you already have one, or one is printed on your BRP.

If you don’t have a National Insurance number, you must apply. You can only apply for it once you’re in the UK. You must have the right to work or study in the UK to get a National Insurance number.


It looks like your foreign nationals may already have got a biometric residence permit:

https://www.gov.uk/biometric-residence-permits

Not that this appears to assist MoVert.

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Re: Non-UK resident with UK based share dealing account

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Postby DiamondEcho » November 9th, 2017, 6:58 pm

PinkDalek wrote:
Lootman wrote:Another class of people with a potential problem are those with foreign nationality who move to the UK but have no need to work (e.g. rich foreigners, those who marry a UK person etc.)
If they do not work or draw benefits then I would think that they would not have a NIN, so how could that be reasonably required of them? To my knowledge the UK does not have a law like the US, requiring all residents over the age of two to have a SSN.

I haven't delved deeper but this https://www.gov.uk/apply-national-insurance-number includes:
If you’re moving to the UK
You may have a National Insurance (NI) number printed on the back of your biometric residence permit (BRP). You don’t need to apply for a National Insurance number if you already have one, or one is printed on your BRP.


Thanks Loot + PD,
This is a bridge I'll have to cross for and with my wife when we return to the UK next year.
My wife will be a foreigner, just not a 'rich foreigner', but we'll be effectively retiring at the point of returning so this is useful info. Without [i]even an NI number, nor UK credit history, in many ways you don't exist vs the UK financial establishment, IME.

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Re: Non-UK resident with UK based share dealing account

#95228

Postby MoVert » November 13th, 2017, 7:48 am

Thank you for the comments . I have somewhat resolved the issues. Circumvent might be a better description. I took the not unreasonable view that the online form designers didnt know what they were doing in respect of obscure jurisdictions. So a little creative interpretation and I'm back in control of my account. For now at least. I had to change a couple of pre completed fields, used my local Social security number in place of UK NI as there seems to be no validation. Also the mobile phone number seems to not be validated for non UK providers! Now contemplating moving everything to CREST :shock:


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