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"Old Money" Trusts?

Stocks and Shares ISA , Choosing funds for ISA's, risk factors for funds etc
Investment strategy discussions not dealt with elsewhere.
Dod101
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Re: "Old Money" Trusts?

#174992

Postby Dod101 » October 19th, 2018, 1:24 pm

Whether volatility is dangerous or an opportunity the fact is it is present in most stock market investing to a greater or lesser degree so we had better get used to it.

Dod

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Re: "Old Money" Trusts?

#174993

Postby Aminatidi » October 19th, 2018, 1:24 pm

Indeed which is where I wonder whether PNL (or similar) could be viewed almost as a bit of a "savings account" with the obvious provision that it can go down but is possibly a safe enough place for money that I don't plan on needing but don't want in 100% equities (goes back to the "too much spare cash" point).

Fascinating discussion and range of opinions :)

TUK020
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Re: "Old Money" Trusts?

#175015

Postby TUK020 » October 19th, 2018, 2:30 pm

Lootman wrote:I did something like that a decade ago, when the mortgage crisis was roiling markets. I had a six-figure position in PNL which I sold and reinvested in shares. It had done its job for me.


Lootman,
What percentage of your portfolio is in PNL (or similar) now?
tuk020

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Re: "Old Money" Trusts?

#175046

Postby Lootman » October 19th, 2018, 4:00 pm

TUK020 wrote:
Lootman wrote:I did something like that a decade ago, when the mortgage crisis was roiling markets. I had a six-figure position in PNL which I sold and reinvested in shares. It had done its job for me.

Lootman,
What percentage of your portfolio is in PNL (or similar) now?

I sold out of PNL completely at the time. I took a new position in it a few years later, maybe about 5% of my taxable portfolio. It plods along, doing its thing.

I do not currently hold CGT or RICA.

I do have a position in RIT but do not regard it as the same.

Generally I do not think it is worth having small positions in these types of vehicles. The point of them is that you can commit a lot to them without worrying. But these days I hedge more using cash, bonds and options, so have less need for these types of trusts

colin
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Re: "Old Money" Trusts?

#175067

Postby colin » October 19th, 2018, 5:45 pm

BusyBumBleBee wrote:

Not so - volatility is an opportunity to buy at a low price and sell at a higher price.

colin wrote
What if you have no money left to buy at the lower price because it's all in the market?

Lootman wrote
If the markets have gone down AND you believe they are heading back up, then you can sell your less volatile names and buy more volatile names.

In this context, you might sell PNL or CGT, since they will presumably have held up quite well. And buy, say, an index fund which is 100% in equities. That will increase your equity exposure on a look through basis even though you had no cash to invest.

Yes which is pretty much the way I invest and i keep a pool of cash as well, the point I am making is that my fear of the consequences to me of equity volatility leads me to create a strategy such as described above to keep that volatility to a level I feel comfortable with, so my values are created by my emotional responses.
whereas RececaDron who wrote
To invest long and successfully you'll need your reasoning brain to overrule your emotional brain."

clearly believes that emotions should have no place in investing decisions, I say that is not just false it is also impossible to achieve unless one suffers from some kind of brain damage.

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Re: "Old Money" Trusts?

#175295

Postby Aminatidi » October 21st, 2018, 8:36 am

Off to get a knitting needle to lobotomise myself to remove any emotions.. :mrgreen:

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Re: "Old Money" Trusts?

#175622

Postby Walrus » October 22nd, 2018, 7:55 pm

Lootman wrote:
TUK020 wrote:
Lootman wrote:I did something like that a decade ago, when the mortgage crisis was roiling markets. I had a six-figure position in PNL which I sold and reinvested in shares. It had done its job for me.

Lootman,
What percentage of your portfolio is in PNL (or similar) now?

I sold out of PNL completely at the time. I took a new position in it a few years later, maybe about 5% of my taxable portfolio. It plods along, doing its thing.

I do not currently hold CGT or RICA.

I do have a position in RIT but do not regard it as the same.

Generally I do not think it is worth having small positions in these types of vehicles. The point of them is that you can commit a lot to them without worrying. But these days I hedge more using cash, bonds and options, so have less need for these types of trusts

Mr Lootman

I've seen you mention options a couple of times across posts. Are we talking buying puts on indexes or something else.? Also as a PI where are you able to make such trades? I'm quite interested in getting some downside protection and holding gold and lots of cash feels like a big opportunity cost and would be interested to see what sort of premiums we are talking in the option space.


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