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E bike recommendation

On road, off road, Mamils, Club rides or just share your routes and tips
UncleEbenezer
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Re: E bike recommendation

#182595

Postby UncleEbenezer » November 23rd, 2018, 5:43 pm

scotia wrote:Below 12 mph is not a problem - hopefully they will be falling behind my bicycle. But above 12mph - that's the danger area, and they will be allowed silent running? It looks like I'll need a hearing aid!

As a cyclist I'm nearly silent and don't have a problem with it. Neither do I have a problem with other near-silent vehicles, including bigger ones.

Many years ago when I cycled with a club, we had a member who was profoundly deaf. A reminder (if you need one) that noise is not a safety feature that exempts one from due care and attention.

I, for one, would welcome a world of far less traffic noise. Along with other pollution.

colin
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Re: E bike recommendation

#182606

Postby colin » November 23rd, 2018, 6:31 pm

Many years ago when I cycled with a club, we had a member who was profoundly deaf


I am sure your deaf cycling club member had learn't to make the most of whatever senses remained, I have cycled with someone who is blind, but to suggest that such disabilities are not in fact a handicap to safety is just daft.

Howard
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Re: E bike recommendation

#182612

Postby Howard » November 23rd, 2018, 6:48 pm

scotia wrote:
redsturgeon wrote:
colin wrote:Me too and the arrival of electric vehicles has shown just how much I have come to rely on my ears to know whats behind me, someone in my locality has one of those single person electric bugy things which has shocked me a couple of times when it has silently whooshed past me at 30mph. Electric vehicles will become ubiquitous and they need to be forced to make some noise for the sake of road safety.

It will be the law next year that electric vehicles will have to emit a noise to warn others of their presence. However this will only be when travelling below 12 mph. Above that speed it is assumed that tyre noise is sufficient.
John

Below 12 mph is not a problem - hopefully they will be falling behind my bicycle. But above 12mph - that's the danger area, and they will be allowed silent running? It looks like I'll need a hearing aid!


Presumably you are emitting a continuous loud sound when cycling to warn pedestrians. :D

As a non-electric cyclist I have frightened many a walker on our country roads particularly when zooming downhill. I don't think I ever frightened walkers in my wife's electric car because its wide tyres made a significant noise. My current petrol-driven car is virtually silent when rolling slowly through a car park, so ironically will electric cars be forced to be noisier than petrol models at slow speeds?

regards

Howard

colin
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Re: E bike recommendation

#182633

Postby colin » November 23rd, 2018, 10:29 pm

Presumably you are emitting a continuous loud sound when cycling to warn pedestrians

When approaching pedestrians close enough that they may stray into my path I announce my presence, the same when approaching horses from behind.
The problem I see with silent motorized vehicles is that keeping to a straight line on a bicycle is almost impossible but when I hear a vehicle approaching from behind I keep to the side as much as the road surface will allow but that doesn't mean I want to ride in the gutter all the time.

redsturgeon
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Re: E bike recommendation

#182646

Postby redsturgeon » November 24th, 2018, 1:04 am

colin wrote:

The problem I see with silent motorized vehicles is that keeping to a straight line on a bicycle is almost impossible but when I hear a vehicle approaching from behind I keep to the side as much as the road surface will allow but that doesn't mean I want to ride in the gutter all the time.


I'm sorry but that is the wrong approach. You should hold your position in the road and make the following vehicle move around you. By hugging the kerb you put yourself in the worst bit of road and encourage cars to make unsafe passes.

John

colin
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Re: E bike recommendation

#182685

Postby colin » November 24th, 2018, 11:48 am

I'm sorry but that is the wrong approach. You should hold your position in the road and make the following vehicle move around you.

Might sound fine in theory but on narrow roads and country lanes many drivers are just not tolerant enough to put up with that approach, they choose instead to try and pass me as closely as they might pass a parked car, which is quite scary on a bike which can't travel in a straight line at slow speeds, and as is usual with cycling I just have to make the best of a bad situation .

scotia
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Re: E bike recommendation

#182760

Postby scotia » November 24th, 2018, 7:19 pm

redsturgeon wrote:
colin wrote:

The problem I see with silent motorized vehicles is that keeping to a straight line on a bicycle is almost impossible but when I hear a vehicle approaching from behind I keep to the side as much as the road surface will allow but that doesn't mean I want to ride in the gutter all the time.


I'm sorry but that is the wrong approach. You should hold your position in the road and make the following vehicle move around you. By hugging the kerb you put yourself in the worst bit of road and encourage cars to make unsafe passes.

John

In theory I agree with John, but in practice I side with Colin.

Lanark
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Re: E bike recommendation

#182763

Postby Lanark » November 24th, 2018, 8:53 pm

redsturgeon wrote:
colin wrote:

The problem I see with silent motorized vehicles is that keeping to a straight line on a bicycle is almost impossible but when I hear a vehicle approaching from behind I keep to the side as much as the road surface will allow but that doesn't mean I want to ride in the gutter all the time.


I'm sorry but that is the wrong approach. You should hold your position in the road and make the following vehicle move around you. By hugging the kerb you put yourself in the worst bit of road and encourage cars to make unsafe passes.

John

My approach has always been to hold a position in the road and then only pull over slightly once the car behind has slowed down to bike speed.

redsturgeon
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Re: E bike recommendation

#182792

Postby redsturgeon » November 25th, 2018, 9:12 am

My point was meant to be a general one but clearly individual circumstances will require specific actions.

I think the general point to remember is that you have as much right to be on the road as any motorist and they have no absolute right to overtake you at will.

I live on one of the main road into my home town. At the weekend I often see a horse and cart riding down my road the mile and a half into the city centre. It moves much more slowly than a bicycle. Cars have to wait behind until it is safe to pass...they should do the same with you on a bike.

The width of my road is such that if you cycle about a metre out from the kerb then it is not safe for a car to pass while there is oncoming traffic and 99% of drivers will not try. If you ride in the gutter then about 20% of drivers will attempt a pass even with oncoming traffic...this is clearly more dangerous for you.

Ride safe.

John

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Re: E bike recommendation

#183210

Postby gvonge » November 27th, 2018, 11:31 am

redsturgeon wrote:I think the general point to remember is that you have as much right to be on the road as any motorist


Strictly speaking, motorists don't have any 'right' to be on the road (they require a licence to be there).

vrdiver
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Re: E bike recommendation

#183218

Postby vrdiver » November 27th, 2018, 11:49 am

gvonge wrote:
redsturgeon wrote:I think the general point to remember is that you have as much right to be on the road as any motorist


Strictly speaking, motorists don't have any 'right' to be on the road (they require a licence to be there).


More importantly, I like to remember who will come off worse in a collision, and behave accordingly: I try not to encourage motorists to "squeeze past", whilst also trying not to antagonise them by blocking the road unnecessarily. I suspect that I get it wrong occasionally (at least from the motorist's PoV) but generally, cycling with a mindset of "don't be a dick" and acknowledging considerate behaviour* seems to work, if only to improve my mental state!

VRD

*Especially truck drivers that have slowed down, then pull out wide to overtake - you can usually spot them in their near-side wing mirror and give a wave just as the back of the wagon has passed.

colin
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Re: E bike recommendation

#191901

Postby colin » January 8th, 2019, 10:36 am

I have no personal experience of riding e bikes but I have ridden conventional bikes all my life and too many e bikes look very overbuilt to me with suspension forks and heavy frames, all this weight takes energy to make it move, wide tires cause significant drag so if you are going to stick to paved roads then a light frame with no suspension and tires 28-30mm wide kept up to the recommended pressure with a foot pump will require less energy to make it move.

Clitheroekid
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Re: E bike recommendation

#192050

Postby Clitheroekid » January 8th, 2019, 10:35 pm

colin wrote:I have no personal experience of riding e bikes but I have ridden conventional bikes all my life and too many e bikes look very overbuilt to me with suspension forks and heavy frames, all this weight takes energy to make it move, wide tires cause significant drag so if you are going to stick to paved roads then a light frame with no suspension and tires 28-30mm wide kept up to the recommended pressure with a foot pump will require less energy to make it move.

That may well be the case, but the crucial difference is that the additional energy required to move an e-bike is provided by a battery, not by your legs! ;)

colin
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Re: E bike recommendation

#192107

Postby colin » January 9th, 2019, 9:05 am

I can't believe that anyone would try and present an argument against energy efficiency.???

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Re: E bike recommendation

#192178

Postby jofc » January 9th, 2019, 1:27 pm

You can find light weight e-bikes with narrower tyres (although if you were so concerned you would probably want to swap the manufacturer supplied tyres to you favorite brand anyway)

BUT: These are really expensive.

So the majority of e-bikes you see are the ones build at low cost with heavy steel frames & shared components with inexpensive mountain bikes.

Especially if people are buying them with the cycle to work scheme - where its 1K tops.

swill453
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Re: E bike recommendation

#192180

Postby swill453 » January 9th, 2019, 1:35 pm

The main benefit of an Ebike is that it can propel the bodyweight of the rider uphill. Other considerations (weight of bike, rolling resistance etc.) are less important as long as this can be done.

Scott.

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Re: E bike recommendation

#192182

Postby Watis » January 9th, 2019, 1:40 pm

swill453 wrote:The main benefit of an Ebike is that it can propel the bodyweight of the rider uphill. Other considerations (weight of bike, rolling resistance etc.) are less important as long as this can be done.

Scott.


Surely Colin's point is that, while accepting that this is what an Ebike does, it could do it better?

Watis

scotia
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Re: E bike recommendation

#192220

Postby scotia » January 9th, 2019, 5:40 pm

Watis wrote:Surely Colin's point is that, while accepting that this is what an Ebike does, it could do it better?

OK - my Carrera Cross City folding e-bike (from Halfords) weighs around 20kg. I guess I could save a bit of weight by removing the mudguards, the kick stand and the substantial rear carrier - but I find all of these useful. As to the frame - it folds (which I also find useful) and it also holds the battery - so I'm not sure if lightweight alloys would make much difference. The tyres (Kenda 20 x 1.75) are not mountain bike standard, but they are a bit bulkier and much more robust than those that I used (many years ago) on a conventional bike. I'm impressed with their grip, and am happy cycling up rutted tracks. The battery assisted range seems to be around the 30 mile mark - but depends on how much hard work (i.e. going up hills) it has to perform. I should probably stress that it is battery assisted - I still need to give it a fair bit of help going up steep hills. Since most of my outings last 1 to 2 hours, the battery range is not limiting.
So what improvements could I hope for? Yes it would be nicer if it were lighter - but not by stripping off peripherals. So if lighter alloys could be used while still allowing a robust folding mechanism, then I would be interested - but that interest would be cost dependent. My bike cost £750 at Halfords.

colin
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Re: E bike recommendation

#192231

Postby colin » January 9th, 2019, 6:46 pm

The OP has stated that this bike is to be used for cycling on very!steep hills in Southern Spain, I have cycled all over Southern Spain from Portugal to the Mediterranean from The Sierra de Morrena to Malaga , the country is mountainous the roads switch back up the slopes to make the gradients acceptable to motorized vehicles,these hills go on for far longer than anything we have in the UK , in Scotland roads tend to run along the valleys between the mountains, in Europe roads go up the mountains, E bikes don't move themselves they are not motorbikes. A brief look on the internet shows that there are E bikes now with 700c wheels which will take narrower tyres, they are designed much like conventional touring bikes which is what is required to make for efficient energy use. In mountainous country low gearing is required, so in that respect there is no difference between E bikes and non powered bikes, look for low gearing, narrow tires kept inflated hard, and no suspension forks or overbuilt frame.

colin
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Re: E bike recommendation

#192239

Postby colin » January 9th, 2019, 7:16 pm

Thought I would make some additional comments to the above post, regarding wheel size while on the flat a full size 700c wheel will cover more ground more easily a case for 26inch wheels in the mountains can be made, for two reasons (1) all other things being equal smaller wheels produce lower gearing than larger wheels which will be useful for getting up hills, same as in your car. (2) This is only my subjective experience but I feel that a 26 inch wheel bike feels more secure when freewheeling downhill at speed. But still make sure that the 26 inch wheel rims will take 28-30mm wide tires as rolling efficiency is so much better.
Pay a lot of attention to how you are going to get down these hills, freewheeling you will go a lot faster than you can cope with. When I was cycling there I only had rim brakes and at times I had to get of and walk downhill because otherwise it took so much pressure on the brake levers to control my speed that the wear on rims and brake blocks would have been severe, so do some serious research into disk brakes to find which brands work well in extreme conditions (which is what you have in Southern Spain) and are easy to maintain.


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