Simple e-bike

[AF62]

Unless the govt is willing to go down the line of bike number plates & registration it's pretty hard to enforce, it will take a good few accidents to make anything happen.

V8

Illegal e-bikes already require registration plates, insurance, and the rider to wear a helmet because they are not bikes but mopeds.

The biggest risk with riding an illegal e-bike (including home modifications) or illegal electric scooters is having an accident that causes personal injury to someone else.

Unlike hitting someone when riding a normal bike (or a legal e-bike) when your home insurance will cover you under the public legal responsibility section, that section always excludes injuries caused by you using a vehicle that has to be registered with the DVLA - which the illegal e-bikes are required to be.

Now if you are a ‘person of straw’ riding an illegal e-bike then fine as you have nothing to lose from someone suing you for the personal injury claim. But if you actually have some assets then wave goodbye to them.

[NomoneyNohoney]

The regs, as far as I can ascertain, are that an e-bike shall be max 250w power, to be a legal bike. My son has just bought himself an ebike with a 750w motor. Obviously something like that can't be ridden on pavements, but to be legal on road, as already stated I understand he needs a proper safety helmet,* registration plate and insurance. This classifies it as a moped I understand. How can he get himself legal? DAK an insurance company that covers these? Can he get the bike inspected and then get a registration number issued?

*He wears a light cycling helmet, the type with ventilation slots, whereas I feel he must have a proper crash helmet, as used by motorcycle riders ...

[9873210]

... This classifies it as a moped I understand. How can he get himself legal? DAK an insurance company that covers these? Can he get the bike inspected and then get a registration number issued?

If it is a moped it will have to satisfy the "construction and use" regulations for mopeds before it can be registered and insured.

There is a very high probability it does not* (and cannot without being totally rebuilt) satisfy the regulations and cannot be legally used on a public highway. Basically it's a toy. But it's also a motor vehicle that cannot legally be used on the road.

* it would require type certification which probably stops it right there. There is a special type certification for one-off home builts or prototypes, but you'd have to jump through the hoops. There are also technical requirements for things like lights, horns, speedometers etc. that must be met for type certification and for continued use. It probably does not meet these either.

[servodude]

I'm resurrecting this thread because I've finally given in to my inner sloth and pick up a simple E-bike tomorrow.

https://www.momentum-biking.com/au/transend-eplus

Ticked too many of my boxes to pass up:
- Doesn't look like it's been assembled from a junkie bike and Alibaba parts
- 7-spd hub gear - so I can ride it like a bike
- Mid drive branded (Yamaha) motor
- decent size battery cos my commute is 18km each way

and was 50% off.... at a bawhair below 2000 colonial dollars
- so a year's commute will cover the cost (if I was paying for fares)
- probably need to eat fewer pies though if this thing is doing more of the work

-sd

[monabri]

I'm resurrecting this thread because I've finally given in to my inner sloth and pick up a simple E-bike tomorrow.

https://www.momentum-biking.com/au/transend-eplus

Ticked too many of my boxes to pass up:
- Doesn't look like it's been assembled from a junkie bike and Alibaba parts
- 7-spd hub gear - so I can ride it like a bike
- Mid drive branded (Yamaha) motor
- decent size battery cos my commute is 18km each way

and was 50% off.... at a bawhair below 2000 colonial dollars
- so a year's commute will cover the cost (if I was paying for fares)
- probably need to eat fewer pies though if this thing is doing more of the work

-sd

Where's the "mudguards", doesn't it rain in Aus?

I see it is offered in "abysmal green" as well

[Tedx]

....and I see it has 'grippy tyres'.

oooOooo!

[servodude]

I'm resurrecting this thread because I've finally given in to my inner sloth and pick up a simple E-bike tomorrow.

https://www.momentum-biking.com/au/transend-eplus

Ticked too many of my boxes to pass up:
- Doesn't look like it's been assembled from a junkie bike and Alibaba parts
- 7-spd hub gear - so I can ride it like a bike
- Mid drive branded (Yamaha) motor
- decent size battery cos my commute is 18km each way

and was 50% off.... at a bawhair below 2000 colonial dollars
- so a year's commute will cover the cost (if I was paying for fares)
- probably need to eat fewer pies though if this thing is doing more of the work

-sd

Where's the "mudguards", doesn't it rain in Aus?

I see it is offered in "abysmal green" as well

If they're sticking them on a bike when you buy it you're probably paying a premium for them

There's a veritable Topeak touring rack going on that will do most of the job of a rear guard - and that down tube is WIDE given the battery in it so I'm not too worried about the spray if I haven't put guards on by the time next winter I need to care

I'm more worried about the walled tyres!
I'm not an Apple user so I don't need fancy pretty stuff to match my handbag - and they're a bit more poncey than my typical marathons
- but I'll fill them with some slime and see how quickly they wear out

-sd

[servodude]

....and I see it has 'grippy tyres'.

oooOooo!

Better than the slippy cnuts that decide they prefer to move side ways when you hit a road marking
- but yeah.. I'm aware it's a bit Bugsy Malone from the side

[redsturgeon]

Looks like a very sensible choice to me. I like the overall look, nothing too weird. I like the Yamaha motor, if is is one hundredth of the power of my old Yamaha R1 motor it will be great . I am also a fan of the Nexus hub gears, very reliable and pretty maintenance free. I will be interested to see how they deal with the extra power coming via the hub motor, I have never been quite sure whether it is best to continue pedalling while shifting with them or to stop pedalling while shifting.

I will be interested to hear how you get on with it.

John

[servodude]

I have never been quite sure whether it is best to continue pedalling while shifting with them or to stop pedalling while shifting.

I was raised on a Sturmey with a thumb lever, then downtube friction shifters and then pods; they're all different, but most prefer you don't pull too hard forward when they're trying to move sideways.
What I like about this is that it's allowed them to put a chain that I think can handle the torque on
- I've seen a few retro-fit bafang motors mince through 8-spd drivetrains; folk don't seem to shift if there's something else pushing!?

[Tedx]

Slightly off topic.....

Some time ago there was a guy on Youtube pimping up his son's pushbike (I would guess the boy was about 15 maybe)

This involved fitting one of these high powered Chinese electric motors to the bike and a whopping big battery. The bike did have a factory fitted disk brake on the front, but little else to support that kind of energy going through the bike - the acceleration was astonishing. Needless to say the boy LOVED it as he zipped along their local streets at 35mph with no pedal input. The dad was proud of his work and the son was chuffed to bits with his new wheels.

I enquired with fake curiousity via the comments that I was thinking of doing the same and asked him for a recomendation on a good insurance company and how he got on at the MOT test centre.

The video disappeared soon after.....but there are plenty more similar ones.

Be careful out there. You never know when a bored dad will decide to turn his kid's pushbike into a moped and find yourself in a world of hurt if his frame collapses at full chat and he falls under the wheels of your car.

(I've nothing against legal electric bikes btw - in fact I'm considering one myself)

[88V8]

I'm resurrecting this thread because I've finally given in to my inner sloth and pick up a simple E-bike tomorrow.

Hope it goes well.

Our simple e-bike is simply bust. 99 miles in, the electric assist vanished and the mileage laboriously covered on the unassisted journey - some 6 miles - was not recorded.

Now we come to the downside of dealing with a shade-tree assembler.... service consisted of sending me a trouble-shooting link which I worked through without solution.
Then a video call with a mechanic, after which we were sent a second-hand display that did not work.
The next step may be to replace the controller, which the mechanic says is an hour+ job for an experienced bike mechanic.
A further week on, I am waiting for his supervisor to call.

Our local e-bike shop is not interested in working on obscure assemblies of Chinese parts. Not sure where this goes at the mo, but I do know that if we buy another e-bike it will be a mainstream make that we can take back if it conks out.
Simple it may be in mechanical terms, but this simple bike has more electronics than our (60yo) car. As a tech-phobe, I should have known better.

V8

[monabri]

2000W bike.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Myzxi-WIWI

[servodude]

I'm resurrecting this thread because I've finally given in to my inner sloth and pick up a simple E-bike tomorrow.

Hope it goes well.

Our simple e-bike is simply bust. 99 miles in, the electric assist vanished and the mileage laboriously covered on the unassisted journey - some 6 miles - was not recorded.

Now we come to the downside of dealing with a shade-tree assembler.... service consisted of sending me a trouble-shooting link which I worked through without solution.
Then a video call with a mechanic, after which we were sent a second-hand display that did not work.
The next step may be to replace the controller, which the mechanic says is an hour+ job for an experienced bike mechanic.
A further week on, I am waiting for his supervisor to call.

Our local e-bike shop is not interested in working on obscure assemblies of Chinese parts. Not sure where this goes at the mo, but I do know that if we buy another e-bike it will be a mainstream make that we can take back if it conks out.
Simple it may be in mechanical terms, but this simple bike has more electronics than our (60yo) car. As a tech-phobe, I should have known better.

V8

Crikey that's a poor show!

Part of my holding off till now is that kind of service issue.

There's little I can't fix on a bike after 40 years of riding the things as my main way of getting about - but I've also designed enough motor and battery systems to know that when they go there's little I can do with the gear I have a home (I can write you a CAN protocol driver and show you it working but I don't have any way to practically rewind a coil - or machine a broken bracket)
I've helped folk fit after market motor kits and I view them as having only three or so parts (motor, controller and battery)
If any fail you replace them - and none of them are cheap
That said... it's normally the wires (damp, corrosion, ingress, ants - stuff gets invaded)

I'm hoping that this being a big brand from a local shop I'll have a bit of cover (and warranty) and it's at a price where if it does pack it in I'm not going to lose any sleep.
I'll probably be up for a new battery at the same cost in two years anyway.

[servodude]

Bloody hell it is fun!

I had a bit of a ride behind the shop without turning it on - and it's not a million miles from my trusty hybrid when it's fully laden with stuff.

Slightly higher position (bigger wheels) and a really comfy reach to the bars
- went with the large even though I've got silly short legs for my height (5'11 and 30" leg).
I can just stand over this (if i breath in and lean back)

Anyways - paid my money - turned it on and put it in auto (which shifts the assist based on torque, speed and incline) for the ride home

Couldn't stop smiling! It's like riding a computer game!

I went the long way from the shop and did the last 5k of my normal commute and giggled all the way
I've sworn to myself that I'll treat the assist like my front shifter as I don't want to NEED an e-bike.
But bloody hell these things are just enjoyable!

Need to decide if I treat ("the beast") to new racks and guards or transfer them from the current steed at the weekend
- actually looking forward to riding to work on Monday

-sd

[88V8]

Bloody hell it is fun!

Yes, even as someone who pretty much gave up cycling years ago, I have to say it is.
It would be hard to go back to a retro bike.
Now you're going to have range anxiety...

V8

[UncleEbenezer]

*He wears a light cycling helmet, the type with ventilation slots, whereas I feel he must have a proper crash helmet, as used by motorcycle riders ...

The motorcycling helmet is much better in a crash. Mostly because it's a round shape, so it's a much lower risk of acting as a lever to twist the head around, damaging the neck/spinal cord and leaving you paraplegic if alive. Which is a much higher risk than a smashed skull.

But both impair ventilation to the head, which may increase your risk of having an accident in the first place. A study of cricketers' helmets found those do indeed impair the wearers' concentration and reaction times. And both make the head a bigger target! This is a much lesser issue for motorcyclists than for cyclists, because the latter are doing physical exercise and generating heat.

[Tedx]

*He wears a light cycling helmet, the type with ventilation slots, whereas I feel he must have a proper crash helmet, as used by motorcycle riders ...

The motorcycling helmet is much better in a crash. Mostly because it's a round shape, so it's a much lower risk of acting as a lever to twist the head around, damaging the neck/spinal cord and leaving you paraplegic if alive. Which is a much higher risk than a smashed skull.

But both impair ventilation to the head, which may increase your risk of having an accident in the first place. A study of cricketers' helmets found those do indeed impair the wearers' concentration and reaction times. And both make the head a bigger target! This is a much lesser issue for motorcyclists than for cyclists, because the latter are doing physical exercise and generating heat.

Re Ventilation

Indeed. I watched a recent episode of Fortnine which covered this subject

https://youtu.be/x_ej8sehs8k

[servodude]

Bloody hell it is fun!

Yes, even as someone who pretty much gave up cycling years ago, I have to say it is.
It would be hard to go back to a retro bike.
Now you're going to have range anxiety...

V8

I'm going to put a second charger in the office
and see if there's a way to log the app data over time
- it does totalization but it would be quite interesting to see the change in capacity (/usage) over distance/time

[formoverfunction]

How about https://temple-electric.com/?currency=GBP Temple started off building bikes and allowed for lots of modification. I'm not sure if tha'st still the case, but that might be a route to simplification.