Fun with drivers

[ukmtk]

I have been cycling about 55 years.
I cycle a reasonable amount where I live (just outside the Peak District).

I managed to wear out my first MTB after 20 years/50000 miles (commuting/road cycling only).
It was a very nice titanium Raleigh - the rear chain stay snapped one day as I was riding.

As I work from home I normally go out mid-morning/afternoon to minimise encountering traffic.
I do my best to avoid A/B roads and simply stick to lanes/smaller roads.

I was once dropping down a hill (not too steep) on a summer's day when I encountered a car coming the other way.
He was going too fast for the road/conditions. He had his windows down and smelt like he was smoking a cigarette.
He shouted out at me as we barely passed "watch where you're going".
It still makes me laugh today.
I don't know many cyclists who cycle with their eyes closed!

One of the closest encounters I've ever had was dropping down a hill at about 30 mph on the MTB.
I came around a bend and there was a truck just stopped in the left lane waiting to turn into a gravel place.
As I was going around the outside of the stopped truck another truck came around the other bend up ahead straight at me.
I could see him pulling towards the verge to avoid me.
I just made it through the gap between the two trucks with my legs like jelly.
I just thought "wow that was close" as I merrily pedalled away.

[XFool]

...OK.

Should I tell you of the times I have encountered cyclists riding on the wrong side of the road? (Let's just forget pavements...). Even against all the traffic? Or sweeping out of side roads, seemingly without looking or signalling? Or weaving in and out in front of vehicles in slowly moving, congested traffic?

And when it comes to going through red lights at junctions and pedestrian crossings! But I guess the Highway Code has a separate edition, just for cyclists...

No? OK then.

All cyclists I speak to assure me these things never happen.

[Lootman]

I was once dropping down a hill (not too steep) on a summer's day when I encountered a car coming the other way. He was going too fast for the road/conditions. He had his windows down and smelt like he was smoking a cigarette. He shouted out at me as we barely passed "watch where you're going".

It still makes me laugh today. I don't know many cyclists who cycle with their eyes closed! .

I do not make a habit of yelling at cyclists but he may have thought that you were riding too far to the right. I notice cyclists vary a lot. Some keep as far left as they can. Others try and "take the lane", which can aggravate other road users.

One of the closest encounters I've ever had was dropping down a hill at about 30 mph on the MTB. I came around a bend and there was a truck just stopped in the left lane waiting to turn into a gravel place. As I was going around the outside of the stopped truck another truck came around the other bend up ahead straight at me. I could see him pulling towards the verge to avoid me. I just made it through the gap between the two trucks with my legs like jelly.

I just thought "wow that was close" as I merrily pedalled away.

As above, riding far to the right puts you close to oncoming traffic. In the same situation I would have slowed and maybe even stopped rather than risk being sandwiched.

Perhaps you were lucky here that the other driver "pulled towards the verge to avoid you". Given a choice between driving into a ditch and hitting a cyclist engaging in a risky manoeuvre, not all drivers would choose the former.

[didds]

I do not make a habit of yelling at cyclists but he may have thought that you were riding too far to the right. I notice cyclists vary a lot. Some keep as far left as they can. Others try and "take the lane", which can aggravate other road users.

where should cyclists cycle here ?

https://scontent-lhr6-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=65E5F1B1

Id suggest that is an extreme example of a constant battle ... cyclists often see things that drivers do not ...

didds

[didds]

[quote="Lootman"
Perhaps you were lucky here that the other driver "pulled towards the verge to avoid you". Given a choice between driving into a ditch and hitting a cyclist engaging in a risky manoeuvre, not all drivers would choose the former.[/quote]


Id suggest however that the vast majority of drivers would not drive at a human being rather than a ditch/hedge, instinctively.

There are always of course the psychopaths and sociopaths.

[88V8]

I do not make a habit of yelling at cyclists but he may have thought that you were riding too far to the right. I notice cyclists vary a lot. Some keep as far left as they can.

where should cyclists cycle here ?
I'd suggest that is an extreme example of a constant battle ... cyclists often see things that drivers do not ...

How true.
Nowadays I would not even drive through that puddle in my Land Rover, in case it concealed a huge pothole.
As a cyclist, I would stop.

I think it would in general improve driver behaviour if everyone had to spend at least a year cycling and pass their Proficiency before they could apply for a car licence.

V8

[Lootman]

Perhaps you were lucky here that the other driver "pulled towards the verge to avoid you". Given a choice between driving into a ditch and hitting a cyclist engaging in a risky manoeuvre, not all drivers would choose the former.

Id suggest however that the vast majority of drivers would not drive at a human being rather than a ditch/hedge, instinctively.

I suspect that instincts take over in such a situation and so it is almost not a conscious act because there is not the time to carefully weigh up your options. And yes, many driver' instincts are to avoid an impact.

But driving into a ditch is not without risk. And what if instead it is a wall, tree or steep embankment? The driver then has to instantly assess the risk of his own demise versus that of another.

Or worse. A truck coming the other way is overtaking and in my lane. I face a head-on collision. No time to stop. I can swerve but there is a cyclist to my left. So what do i do?

I guess what I am really saying is that there are sometimes narrow margins, limited options and little time. The most risk is borne by the smallest and most vulnerable vehicle. And in the OP the cyclist was relying on others to decide whether he lives or dies.

[didds]

Or worse. A truck coming the other way is overtaking and in my lane. I face a head-on collision. No time to stop. I can swerve but there is a cyclist to my left. So what do i do?

a.k.a. the "Trolley Problem"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem

[XFool]

Id suggest that is an extreme example of a constant battle ... cyclists often see things that drivers do not ...

And drivers and pedestrians often see things that cyclists hold are only hallucinations!

[Dod101]

I do not think much of the heading for this thread. Roads are not good places to have ‘fun ‘ especially if you are a vulnerable cyclist.

Dod

[bungeejumper]

Out here in the sticks, our narrow local lanes are on a national cycle route which is much frequented by hardline racing nuts. Often in team colours, although high-viz black with no lights seems to be the usual all-weather preference at the moment.

Although most of our local cyclists do seem to be reasonably survival-minded people, perhaps one in five racing groups will think it okay to speed round blind bends three or even four abreast, or to sit firmly in the middle of an 11 foot wide road so that nobody can pass them in either direction. I've had touring groups of thirty or more cyclists cutting corners at T junctions so that they all ride right across my path on my side of the road. About as much collective brain as a herd of sheep on the move. It does cause a fair bit of bad feeling. Its all so unnecessary.

Certainly, I agree that not every car or van driver is a model of patience and good behaviour. The same lanes around our area are also on the satnav rat-runs where the Audi rowdies ply their trade between business meetings. And it's also impossible for a car driver to fully appreciate the parlous state of the road surface that the cyclists have to deal with. Well, it would be if I didn't drive down those same roads twelve times a week. (And they're fine, honestly....)

Thank goodness, then, for my dashcam. I don't know how I'd sleep at night without my silent witness. Hoping I never need to rely on it. So far, so good...

BJ

[XFool]

I do not think much of the heading for this thread. Roads are not good places to have ‘fun ‘ especially if you are a vulnerable cyclist.

That, of course, is a very good point. In a 'competition' between a motor vehicle and a cyclist who is likely to come off worst?

[didds]

Although most of our local cyclists do seem to be reasonably survival-minded people, perhaps one in five racing groups will think it okay to speed round blind bends three or even four abreast, or to sit firmly in the middle of an 11 foot wide road so that nobody can pass them in either direction.
BJ

whilst not defending the total loonies out there there are good reasons why sometimes cycle groups may for self preservation fill up blind bends because you will clearly be amazed at how many drivers think they can overtake a single line - or even doubled up line - of cyclists around blind bends.

They wouldn't overtake a car doing 25 miles an hour around blind bends but somehow cyclists in a peleton doing 25 mph, several times the l;ength of a car, doesn't have the same deterrent...

and thats a bad mixture when there is something coming around the corner half way through passing...

summary: there are idiots on the roads from all transport modes. and sometimes the safest thing to do is to make sure the idiots don't take you out.

[Lootman]

Or worse. A truck coming the other way is overtaking and in my lane. I face a head-on collision. No time to stop. I can swerve but there is a cyclist to my left. So what do i do?

a.k.a. the "Trolley Problem"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem

Now you mention it I vaguely recall that from my ethics class at university around 1974 or so.

Although even that example assumes enough time for reflecton. And it assumes that the life of the decision maker is not at risk.

So I would never willingly hit a cyclist or pedestrian if I could safely avoid it. But if the only way to avoid it is to put my life in danger, not to mention others in my car, then it becomes less clear.

[Gerry557]

Well I get near misses in both my car and on my bike. Obviously on the bike I don't have a tin can with a crumple zone around me.

I have also had several accidents. I was cycling on a slightly down hill road. Probably 30mph limit 60mph. When a car pulled out from the left, trying to turn right, unfortunately I didn't have the space to brake fully and he side swiped me. Clear summer day. I don't know why he didn't see me. I saw him "looking" I was injured cuts and bruises. The bike needed repairs. I was thrown up his bonnet. I remember everything in detail even now and how it all became slow motion.

A second was in a car. I was stationary indicating and waiting to turn right. I was rear ended by a lady. I think she was too distracted chatting with the passenger from my observations in the rear view. I was able to shout a warning to my passengers seconds before impact. My car was written off, we all had whiplash one quite serious. Glad I wasn't on the bike. I dont know how I'd manage a baccy.

The third was another cycling accident. It was rush hour. I was at a junction, in the righthand side of the road almost next to the white lines. I was going straight on at that junction whilst overtaking a line of cars that were waiting to turn left. When a car waiting to exit a side road 20 yards behind me on the righthand side decided to pull out of his turning and overtake the row of cars on the wrong side of the road. He was also trying to also turn left from the incoming side of the road. As I went straight on and he turned left from the wrong side of the road we met in the middle. Fortunately it was a slow speed accident. I had knocks, his car scratches. A policeman observed the accident and came across for a chat with the driver.

Apparently it was my fault as I was riding in the middle of the road and didn't indicate. I asked him what the indication for straight on looked like? He replied "Oh I thought you would be turning left because everyone turns left here"

The policeman wanted to know why he was on the wrong side of the road whichever way he was turning. At least the driver did see me that time! Whilst I was in the "right" the outcome for me could have been much worse. I left and didn't find out the result of the chat was.

Unfortunately there is a proportion of drivers who don't think cyclist should be on the road. There is a bingo card of excuses. Probably because they are such poorly skilled drivers themselves.

Whilst the majority accept that they have just as much right and are able to deal with the situation safely. Yes sometimes cyclists slow me down but so do tractors, caravans, horses, lorries, other cars and pedestrians. Not to mention speed cameras, humps, traffic lights. So you lot get offff my roads.

[XFool]

Well I get near misses in both my car and on my bike. Obviously on the bike I don't have a tin can with a crumple zone around me.

I have also had several accidents. I was cycling on a slightly down hill road. Probably 30mph limit 60mph. When a car pulled out from the left, trying to turn right, unfortunately I didn't have the space to brake fully and he side swiped me. Clear summer day. I don't know why he didn't see me. I saw him "looking" I was injured cuts and bruises.

No actual accident here but - to give some 'balance' - driving my car alone during the lock down, I turned left into a main road and at some point in the turn realised a cyclist was about to collide with me. I made the instant decision to keep on going (which I still think was the right decision) as in turning and continuing I was likely receding from her. Though, from my position in the car, I couldn't be sure of the exact situation. I was as shocked as she must have been (regrettably I didn't even stop the car). She was OK, saw her in the driving mirror, stopped astride her cycle in the middle of the junction.

What happened? I still cannot be completely certain (I have a couple of ideas), it's not as if I simply hadn't looked right, down the main road, to check it was clear before driving out. I had. Yet somehow she didn't register in my brain - despite her wearing (I think) a yellow safety jacket!

I am not driving any more - the car since hit a very bad pothole in a local road, and driving was getting increasingly nasty on London roads. But this near accident with a person certainly didn't help.

[servodude]

Yet somehow she didn't register in my brain - despite her wearing (I think) a yellow safety jacket!

It happens. You can easily not notice something if you're actively looking for something else - generally at a junction that sometime else is bigger than you.

[ukmtk]

The incident with the driver shouting out was on a single track road - so we had to share the space.

Most of the time I go out of my way to avoid cars/lorries if I can.
I frequently give way to them to make their life easier - especially if I'm coming downhill.
It's going uphill that's trickier to handle especially when it's steep.

The one thing I don't like is them racing up behind me and hassling me.
One Sunday morning I did have a girl come up beeping and shouting that I was in her way.
I was unimpressed. I was going uphill, the road was about 8ft wide and it was just about to open up in a few yards.

I occasionally take the lane (which the Highway Code allows) when there is oncoming traffic and I want to dissuade the cars behind from trying to overtake.

Most cyclists are also drivers so they know the impact they are having on traffic.

I think that all drivers should be taught "the only responsibility of a driver is to drive safely".
Similarly for cyclists "the only responsibility of a cyclist is to cycle safely".

The thought experiment I would give drivers is the following.

If you are legally driving through a village at 30mph and a boy racer comes racing up behind you beeping because you are going "too slow" for his liking would you:
(a) pull over and let him past?
(b) assume that you are driving legally and ignore/report him?

My assumption is that most drivers would choose (a) (as would most cyclists).

I've never been in a serious collision with a car.
I did have a lady once turn out from a junction and clip me with her mirror (it was my right of way).
The only serious injury I have suffered was a self inflicted broken collar bone nigh on 40 years ago.
I have come off a few times suffering just scrapes and bruises.
I'm normally thankful to get home safe and sound (cycling or driving).

[Gerry557]

Well I get near misses in both my car and on my bike. Obviously on the bike I don't have a tin can with a crumple zone around me.

I have also had several accidents. I was cycling on a slightly down hill road. Probably 30mph limit 60mph. When a car pulled out from the left, trying to turn right, unfortunately I didn't have the space to brake fully and he side swiped me. Clear summer day. I don't know why he didn't see me. I saw him "looking" I was injured cuts and bruises.

No actual accident here but - to give some 'balance' - driving my car alone during the lock down, I turned left into a main road and at some point in the turn realised a cyclist was about to collide with me. I made the instant decision to keep on going (which I still think was the right decision) as in turning and continuing I was likely receding from her. Though, from my position in the car, I couldn't be sure of the exact situation. I was as shocked as she must have been (regrettably I didn't even stop the car). She was OK, saw her in the driving mirror, stopped astride her cycle in the middle of the junction.

What happened? I still cannot be completely certain (I have a couple of ideas), it's not as if I simply hadn't looked right, down the main road, to check it was clear before driving out. I had. Yet somehow she didn't register in my brain - despite her wearing (I think) a yellow safety jacket!

I am not driving any more - the car since hit a very bad pothole in a local road, and driving was getting increasingly nasty on London roads. But this near accident with a person certainly didn't help.

Well we are all human and make mistakes. Fortunately no one hurt and I'm sure there were some choice words muttered but a very poor outcome for the lady "could" of occurred and possibly more devastating if a mother to x4 infants etc. If people can crash into a stationary marked policecar then a cyclist even in high viz doesn't stand much chance.

London does seem to have worse drivers and cyclists. I put this down to the density and the must rush lifestyle in such a compact space. The rest of the country only seems that bad on Friday afternoon.

I suspect many of us have cheated death on multiple occasions on the roads and sometimes it's our own fault.

[XFool]

London does seem to have worse drivers and cyclists. I put this down to the density and the must rush lifestyle in such a compact space. The rest of the country only seems that bad on Friday afternoon.

Even when I was driving I had long decided to never drive in London on a Friday afternoon!

Interestingly, I used to feel Saturday morning in London was the easiest time. And the period of mid summer - families abroad on holidays?

Plus, always to try and keep away from schools in the morning and afternoon...

Luckily, the day I had a minor stroke returning home from a meeting, I had decided to not use my car to get there - following a couple of distinctly funny 'turns' earlier in the day.