Donate to Remove ads

Got a credit card? use our Credit Card & Finance Calculators

Thanks to eyeball08,Wondergirly,bofh,johnstevens77,Bhoddhisatva, for Donating to support the site

Books you have been unable to finish

Reviews, favourites and suggestions
Slarti
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2941
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:46 pm
Has thanked: 640 times
Been thanked: 496 times

Re: Books you have been unable to finish

#51672

Postby Slarti » May 6th, 2017, 3:51 pm

DiamondEcho wrote:Yes yes and thrice yes :)
For English-Lit O-level, which due to the timing of my birthday I sat and failed aged 15, we had what would now perhaps be considered an overly heavy reading list.

I remember enjoying 1984 and Farenheit 451, though I really doubt I got the message behind the story.
I don't recall much about Catcher in the Rye, perhaps that speaks for itself?
I managed to make some kind of connection with Alan Paton's Cry the Beloved Country.
Ditto Hemingway's Old Man and the Sea, but again it's deeper meaning would have gone over my head.
I don't recall what I made of To Kill a Mockingbird.
I found Julius Caeser extremely hard going, sadly it did nothing for me.
Chaucer's Pilgrims Progress - OMTG! I was 14/15 when I had to read it, my mind boggles looking back, was this meant to encourage a passion for great literature?
Conrad's Heart of Darkness. I got the storyline, but it's deeper meaning would have been completely lost on me.
Graham Greene's Our Man in Havana. That can be read at multiple levels, and I enjoyed it as a 'spy book'.
There were others, but those are the ones I recall. I agree with BJ^, maybe it was partly because of such tasks at school that I veered off into rebellion by becoming a punk rocker.

In fact Greene is perhaps my favourite author. He was a master of setting a scene such that you could almost imagine you were there. His descriptions of the various characters involved was IMO equally as 'simple but forensic' such that you imagined you had the measure of them. It was only years later reading his obituaries that I came to learn the extent to which his own experiences are reflected within those books and characters. The broken marriages, the whole 'Catholic guilt' thing. That adds yet another dimension to the prism when I occasionally go back and read them again.


I was lucky in 2 respects with my Eng-Lit O level, both to do with Chaucer.
First, I was struggling to read it while were were visiting relatives in Northumberland and an old great uncle asked what I was reading. I said I was more "trying to" read it and having trouble with the words. He asked to have a look and, after a few moments started reading it out loud. That was when I realised that Chaucer was written in something close to phonetic Northumbrian. From then on, as I read it I would hear Great Uncle Lionel's voice, which made it easier. NB Northumbrian has little resemblance to Geordie.

Second was the good old Beeb. Aunty did a dramatisation of at least some of it, including naughty bits which was shown while I was actually doing my O level. It increased all of our interest.

I was unlucky in the Shakespeare in that we were given Romeo & Juliet which I have never got on with to this day. The triumph of young stupidity over all.

Farenheit 451 was not on my syllabus as my school wouldn't have had anything to do with SciFi, but I already owned a copy, together with almost everything else by Bradbury.

Graham Greene's Our Man in Havana belongs in the Books you failed to finish thread, for me. In fact I don't think I've ever read anything by him.

Slarti

bungeejumper
Lemon Half
Posts: 8134
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 2:30 pm
Has thanked: 2882 times
Been thanked: 3983 times

Re: Books you have been unable to finish

#51681

Postby bungeejumper » May 6th, 2017, 4:17 pm

DiamondEcho wrote:Chaucer's Pilgrims Progress - OMTG! I was 14/15 when I had to read it, my mind boggles looking back, was this meant to encourage a passion for great literature?

Pilgrim's Progress? I remember that one. Didn't they all get stuck in the Despond of Slough or something? I used to know the feeling, the traffic was awful. :lol: :lol: :lol: Seriously, though, we did have to read the Canterbury Tales in the sixth form, when it made much more sense and we could enjoy the rude bits properly. Much later, I found myself studying Old English and Middle High German, and the music of Chaucer's language came through in a way that still grabs me today.

Conrad's Heart of Darkness. I got the storyline, but it's deeper meaning would have been completely lost on me.

Sometimes I wonder whether even Conrad knew exactly what he was up to with that one, but it certainly wasn't for schoolkids. I read it the first time through a haze of alcohol (much later, I should add!), and it was like a weird druggy trip to the edges of sanity which brought me back to study it many more times in much more linguistic detail. An absolute masterpiece, but no way was it right for O level.

As a teenager I loved Fahrenheit 451 and then went on to devour everything that Ray Bradbury wrote - and I soon decided that his best stuff was in his short stories. I can't think of many writers with such a talent for spooking you with a twist of logic which you ought to have seen coming but didn't. The Illustrated Man can make my skin crawl even today. And A Sound of Thunder, the one about the time-travellers going back to game-shoot dinosaurs, was just sublime in its conclusion, which I won't give away here.

In fact Greene is perhaps my favourite author. He was a master of setting a scene such that you could almost imagine you were there. His descriptions of the various characters involved was IMO equally as 'simple but forensic' such that you imagined you had the measure of them. It was only years later reading his obituaries that I came to learn the extent to which his own experiences are reflected within those books and characters. The broken marriages, the whole 'Catholic guilt' thing. That adds yet another dimension to the prism when I occasionally go back and read them again.

Agreed. Greene was so gifted as a writer, but as a teenager I had no grasp at all of his struggles with religion. Loved his cynicism, though, and the sense of primal angst penetrating the colonialist white man's cool exterior. Another genius with the plotline twists. I could go on indefinitely like that, but eventually my German studies would take me into Kant and Hegel and Marx and Nietzsche, and a lot of other people who wrote long serious works because they didn't know how to write a short one. :lol:

BJ

Slarti
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2941
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:46 pm
Has thanked: 640 times
Been thanked: 496 times

Re: Books you have been unable to finish

#51686

Postby Slarti » May 6th, 2017, 4:40 pm

And the reason I've come to this thread is to admit to failing to finish Automated Alice by Jeff Noon

I knew my son had it and saw that it had quite a few stars on Amazon, so thought I'd give it a try.
It is supposed to be witty and have puns in. It has puns, but they are not any good and where there are supposed to be jokes they are so obvious as not to be worth the effort.

Slarti

DiamondEcho
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3131
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:39 pm
Has thanked: 3060 times
Been thanked: 554 times

Re: Books you have been unable to finish

#51697

Postby DiamondEcho » May 6th, 2017, 5:24 pm

bungeejumper wrote:Pilgrim's Progress? I remember that one. Didn't they all get stuck in the Despond of Slough or something?


The only bit I recall was someone sticking their bum out of a window, and another person sticking a red hot poker up it. IDR anything else except IIRC the wider story might be a pilgrimage of sorts, to Canterbury or similar?

re: Conrad's Heart of Darkness.
bungeejumper wrote:Sometimes I wonder whether even Conrad knew exactly what he was up to with that one, but it certainly wasn't for schoolkids. I read it the first time through a haze of alcohol (much later, I should add!), and it was like a weird druggy trip to the edges of sanity which brought me back to study it many more times in much more linguistic detail. An absolute masterpiece, but no way was it right for O level.


I'm reminded of the question, how can you visualise the home security you might need when you cannot imagine the mind of the kind of person who might wish to break into it? HoD is a journey into insanity, perhaps closer than those who are sane can realise. It is perhaps no coincidence that the film I have watched most often [well over 100 times, over 30+ years] is Apocalypse Now, which is based upon the storyline of Conrad's book. Indeed the 'directors cut' of ANow is called 'The Heart of Darkness'. Both the book and later films are a journey up-river into the unknown, to try and take out self-anointed megalomania. ANow can distract someone new to it into thinking it's as my wife suggests 'Your war film! [again]' :lol: It's not, it's a consideration of sanity versus insanity, just in this case set within the context of war. I'd go further, the insanity in the search for sanity can become relentless, the surfing while napalm is being strafed in the background, hooking up with Playboy bunnies in the deep jungle while on a mission to execute one of their own colonels... I think you'd struggle to not see it as a study of madness :)

bungeejumper wrote:Agreed. Greene was so gifted as a writer, but as a teenager I had no grasp at all of his struggles with religion. Loved his cynicism, though, and the sense of primal angst penetrating the colonialist white man's cool exterior. Another genius with the plotline twists. I could go on indefinitely like that, but eventually my German studies would take me into Kant and Hegel and Marx and Nietzsche, and a lot of other people who wrote long serious works because they didn't know how to write a short one. :lol: BJ


Wow, well that was some journey, Greene to Nietzsche/etc. I can't say I envy you. Another one for uber-cynicism is Evelyn Waugh. He wrote a wonderful short book scripted re: the US and pet cemeteries. 'The Loved One' - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Loved_One

bungeejumper
Lemon Half
Posts: 8134
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 2:30 pm
Has thanked: 2882 times
Been thanked: 3983 times

Re: Books you have been unable to finish

#51701

Postby bungeejumper » May 6th, 2017, 5:37 pm

DiamondEcho wrote:
bungeejumper wrote:Pilgrim's Progress? I remember that one. Didn't they all get stuck in the Despond of Slough or something?


The only bit I recall was someone sticking their bum out of a window, and another person sticking a red hot poker up it. IDR anything else except IIRC the wider story might be a pilgrimage of sorts, to Canterbury or similar?

Sorry, I was teasing you there. The Pilgrim's Progress was by Bunyan, who didn't have a sense of humour at all. IIRC, the bare bum in Chaucer ("Canterbury Tales") was well on the way to getting kissed (on a very dark night) when flatulence intervened. :o

I'm with you on The Loved One. Waugh was another of my subversive teenage heroes, which is quite funny considering what a crusty old fart he could also be at times. And of course, his son Auberon wrote for Private Eye, which kind of completed the circle. Now Private Eye was one thing I couldn't put down! Even though my father was convinced that you could be arrested even just for carrying a copy in your bag.

BJ

DiamondEcho
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3131
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:39 pm
Has thanked: 3060 times
Been thanked: 554 times

Re: Books you have been unable to finish

#51713

Postby DiamondEcho » May 6th, 2017, 6:19 pm

bungeejumper wrote:I'm with you on The Loved One. Waugh was another of my subversive teenage heroes, which is quite funny considering what a crusty old fart he could also be at times. And of course, his son Auberon wrote for Private Eye, which kind of completed the circle. Now Private Eye was one thing I couldn't put down! Even though my father was convinced that you could be arrested even just for carrying a copy in your bag. BJ


I suspect such crusty aristo types had the social latitude to go beyond the realms of us mere mortals. Same way the village squire can get away with dressing in virtual rags 'since he has nothing to prove' :lol: Agreed, Auberon Waugh... I think they broke the mould after him, most entertaining.
Private Eye used to be verging on subversive, not least since it had no credible competition at the time. Less so these days, though it's still banned in some parts of the world [incl the last two countries that I lived/live].

UncleEbenezer
The full Lemon
Posts: 10788
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 8:17 pm
Has thanked: 1470 times
Been thanked: 2995 times

Re: Books you have been unable to finish

#51941

Postby UncleEbenezer » May 7th, 2017, 11:59 pm

bungeejumper wrote:Agreed. Greene was so gifted as a writer, but as a teenager I had no grasp at all of his struggles with religion. Loved his cynicism, though, and the sense of primal angst penetrating the colonialist white man's cool exterior.

Likewise. Until I read The Heart of the Matter, where it's totally explicit (in a good way). In retrospect, that would've been a better entry point to Greene for a young person than Brighton Rock or The Comedians (which, from memory, are the Greenes I encountered earlier).
Another genius with the plotline twists. I could go on indefinitely like that, but eventually my German studies would take me into Kant and Hegel and Marx and Nietzsche, and a lot of other people who wrote long serious works because they didn't know how to write a short one. :lol:
BJ

Hehe. Zarathustra isn't heavy. I recollect reading and much enjoying that in my teens. If you've been brought up to treat the bible as ... um ... gospel (as I expect most Fools were, with daily assembly at school), it's the ideal provocation to make you think about it ;)

bungeejumper
Lemon Half
Posts: 8134
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 2:30 pm
Has thanked: 2882 times
Been thanked: 3983 times

Re: Books you have been unable to finish

#52008

Postby bungeejumper » May 8th, 2017, 12:24 pm

UncleEbenezer wrote:Likewise. Until I read The Heart of the Matter, where it's totally explicit (in a good way). In retrospect, that would've been a better entry point to Greene for a young person than Brighton Rock or The Comedians (which, from memory, are the Greenes I encountered earlier).

Aaah, that was his late-in-life, last-minute score-settling account with the Catholic church, was it not? Liberation theology and all that. So maybe it wouldn't have made much of a entry to the Brighton Rock student, because he hadn't written it yet. But yes, Greene's guilty relationship with Rome was certainly at the very heart of the matter. And no, I haven't read it, but it's on my list. Which has just got longer. Drat. :twisted:

BJ

bungeejumper
Lemon Half
Posts: 8134
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 2:30 pm
Has thanked: 2882 times
Been thanked: 3983 times

Re: Books you have been unable to finish

#52082

Postby bungeejumper » May 8th, 2017, 6:25 pm

bungeejumper wrote:Aaah, that was his late-in-life, last-minute score-settling account with the Catholic church, was it not? Liberation theology and all that. So maybe it wouldn't have made much of a entry to the Brighton Rock student, because he hadn't written it yet.

Scrub that, he wrote it way back in 1948. I'm thinking of something else.

Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

BJ

77ss
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1274
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 10:42 am
Has thanked: 233 times
Been thanked: 416 times

Re: Books you have been unable to finish

#52088

Postby 77ss » May 8th, 2017, 7:27 pm

bungeejumper wrote:
UncleEbenezer wrote:Likewise. Until I read The Heart of the Matter, where it's totally explicit (in a good way). In retrospect, that would've been a better entry point to Greene for a young person than Brighton Rock or The Comedians (which, from memory, are the Greenes I encountered earlier).

Aaah, that was his late-in-life, last-minute score-settling account with the Catholic church, was it not? Liberation theology and all that. So maybe it wouldn't have made much of a entry to the Brighton Rock student, because he hadn't written it yet. But yes, Greene's guilty relationship with Rome was certainly at the very heart of the matter. And no, I haven't read it, but it's on my list. Which has just got longer. Drat. :twisted:

BJ


Brighton Rock is great. I can't however stand much of the Catholic stuff - Greene's personal issues just get in the way of a decent read. Not the only author who is clearly an able writer, but with whom I just can't connect.

Bunyan? Well, he may or may may not have had a sense of humour, but I find Pilgrims' Progress amusing. It is also one of those rare works that is a significant cultural referent. Places, characters and events. Slough of Despond, Vanity Fair, Mr Worldly Wiseman, Pliable....

Halicarnassus
Lemon Slice
Posts: 343
Joined: February 22nd, 2017, 1:23 am
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Books you have been unable to finish

#52136

Postby Halicarnassus » May 9th, 2017, 6:08 am

77ss wrote:Brighton Rock is great. I can't however stand much of the Catholic stuff - Greene's personal issues just get in the way of a decent read. Not the only author who is clearly an able writer, but with whom I just can't connect.



That's unfortunate. You're missing out on so much great stuff then, from Chesterton, Tolkien, Waugh etc

Tolkien...
"The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision."

77ss
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1274
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 10:42 am
Has thanked: 233 times
Been thanked: 416 times

Re: Books you have been unable to finish

#52152

Postby 77ss » May 9th, 2017, 7:56 am

Halicarnassus wrote:
77ss wrote:Brighton Rock is great. I can't however stand much of the Catholic stuff - Greene's personal issues just get in the way of a decent read. Not the only author who is clearly an able writer, but with whom I just can't connect.



That's unfortunate. You're missing out on so much great stuff then, from Chesterton, Tolkien, Waugh etc

Tolkien...
"The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision."


An extrapolation too far!

Going from a comment I make about Graham Greene to other authors, as disparate as Tolkien and Waugh, is a huge jump across a logical chasm.

Halicarnassus
Lemon Slice
Posts: 343
Joined: February 22nd, 2017, 1:23 am
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Books you have been unable to finish

#52201

Postby Halicarnassus » May 9th, 2017, 10:51 am

77ss wrote:
Halicarnassus wrote:
77ss wrote:Brighton Rock is great. I can't however stand much of the Catholic stuff - Greene's personal issues just get in the way of a decent read. Not the only author who is clearly an able writer, but with whom I just can't connect.



That's unfortunate. You're missing out on so much great stuff then, from Chesterton, Tolkien, Waugh etc

Tolkien...
"The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision."


An extrapolation too far!

Going from a comment I make about Graham Greene to other authors, as disparate as Tolkien and Waugh, is a huge jump across a logical chasm.


Disparate? How so? Essentially similar I would have said.

Slarti
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2941
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:46 pm
Has thanked: 640 times
Been thanked: 496 times

Re: Books you have been unable to finish

#52596

Postby Slarti » May 10th, 2017, 7:03 pm

77ss wrote:
That's unfortunate. You're missing out on so much great stuff then, from Chesterton, Tolkien, Waugh etc

Tolkien...
"The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision."


An extrapolation too far!

[/quote]

Are you saying that suggesting LoTR is Catholic is an extrapolation too far, or that you're missing out is an extrapolation too far?

If the former, the quote was from Tolkien, if the latter, I'd say not all Catholics are tortured.

Chesterton, for one, has fun with Father Brown and does not seem to be troubled with personal demons, in his writing.

Slarti

UncleEbenezer
The full Lemon
Posts: 10788
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 8:17 pm
Has thanked: 1470 times
Been thanked: 2995 times

Re: Books you have been unable to finish

#52639

Postby UncleEbenezer » May 10th, 2017, 11:17 pm

Slarti wrote:Are you saying that suggesting LoTR is Catholic is an extrapolation too far, or that you're missing out is an extrapolation too far?

If the former, the quote was from Tolkien, if the latter, I'd say not all Catholics are tortured.

Chesterton, for one, has fun with Father Brown and does not seem to be troubled with personal demons, in his writing.

Slarti

Tolkien may have been a christian, but his writing is more pantheistic, drawing on a wide range of traditions (this is its strength and depth). There's more of the Germanic and Norse in LoTR than of Christianity.

Now that you mention Greene vs more relaxed Catholic writers, I listened a few months back when Radio 4 serialised Monsignor Quixote. The basic idea is shamelessly nicked from Giovanni Guareschi's "Don Camillo" books, in which a Catholic priest and a Communist mayor do battle over all kinds of mostly-silly issues, but in a lighthearted, entertaining read quite unlike Greene.

77ss
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1274
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 10:42 am
Has thanked: 233 times
Been thanked: 416 times

Re: Books you have been unable to finish

#52695

Postby 77ss » May 11th, 2017, 10:21 am

Slarti wrote:
77ss wrote:
That's unfortunate. You're missing out on so much great stuff then, from Chesterton, Tolkien, Waugh etc

Tolkien...
"The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision."


An extrapolation too far!



Are you saying that suggesting LoTR is Catholic is an extrapolation too far, or that you're missing out is an extrapolation too far?



Slarti


The latter! The fact that I generally find Greene's Catholicism overly intrusive, and a hindrance to my enjoyment has no bearing whatsoever on other authors. Every case is different.

WelshInvestor
Posts: 2
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 9:59 am

Re: Books you have been unable to finish

#76958

Postby WelshInvestor » August 25th, 2017, 9:39 am

A book I failed to finish was Angus Wilson's Anglo Saxon Attitudes.

stewamax
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2455
Joined: November 7th, 2016, 2:40 pm
Has thanked: 84 times
Been thanked: 798 times

Re: Books you have been unable to finish

#83461

Postby stewamax » September 25th, 2017, 8:22 pm

A slight digression, but Slarti made a point that interested me greatly:
I was lucky in 2 respects with my Eng-Lit O level, both to do with Chaucer.
First, I was struggling to read it while were were visiting relatives in Northumberland and an old great uncle asked what I was reading. I said I was more "trying to" read it and having trouble with the words. He asked to have a look and, after a few moments started reading it out loud. That was when I realised that Chaucer was written in something close to phonetic Northumbrian. From then on, as I read it I would hear Great Uncle Lionel's voice, which made it easier. NB Northumbrian has little resemblance to Geordie.


If I listen to Middle English intoned - try 'Prologue to Piers Plowman A-Text' on YouTube - I hear Northumbrian!! It is almost as if the Great Vowel Shift had passed them by.

Charlottesquare
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1786
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:22 pm
Has thanked: 105 times
Been thanked: 564 times

Re: Books you have been unable to finish

#89682

Postby Charlottesquare » October 20th, 2017, 11:58 pm

stewamax wrote:If I listen to Middle English intoned - try 'Prologue to Piers Plowman A-Text' on YouTube - I hear Northumbrian!! It is almost as if the Great Vowel Shift had passed them by.


Its maybe wider, as an Anglo Scot brought up with a Dundee accent from my mother and an English/Lowland Scot amalgamation from my father (which combined seems to have morphed into a more Aberdeen-shire accent for some reason), I found reading Chaucer aloud had intonations from Scotland, possibly because the words, when read, extend and soften, there is certainly a cadence redolent of Scots.

I spent about 5-6 weeks on Chaucer at Edinburgh in my second year, and initially was looking up the glossary every second/third word, but after a short time, especially reading aloud, it sort of clicked with my intonation and the reading became far more natural, with only odd words, maybe once every two three lines, requiring the glossary.

Re the stories mentioned earlier, it is I think The Reeve's Tale and The Miller's Tale that possibly feature the bum out the window and the poker (35 years is a long time to remember so cannot remember which was which except the Reeve's is about a Miller and the Miller's about a Reeve), I even vaguely remember writing an essay on them viewing them as derivative from fabliaux tales.

I think my Robinson version is scuffing around somewhere in the house, perhaps we ought to become reacquainted.

Charlottesquare
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1786
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:22 pm
Has thanked: 105 times
Been thanked: 564 times

Re: Books you have been unable to finish

#89684

Postby Charlottesquare » October 21st, 2017, 12:12 am

A few have been abandoned over the years, Mansfield Park was in theory read re first year English lit, reality was I skimmed. Ulysses is certainly one I abandoned, Crime and Punishment is about 75% done and is sitting in the bookcase at our holiday house awaiting my being willing, whilst on holiday, to abandon something lighter and drive myself to the end after a near 3-4 year pause.

I own a lot of worthy books awaiting my attention, but must admit Moby Dick, a couple of Waugh novels unread et al are finding it more and more difficult to tempt me from say Le Carre (new book out by the way).

Re reading Dickens and Great Expectations issues - and I have now read all novels except Tale of Two Cities and the unfinished Mystery of Edwin Drood - an open fire is the secret, especially in winter. You can read in front of flickering flames with a drink at your side, perfect way to relax during Christmas and New Year holidays, you just need to suspend belief re the plots and tolerate his simpering female characters (they are a bit sickly sweet) and embrace his caricature characters- if he had not been a novelist he should have drawn caricatures, they, to me, come alive.

Edit-remembered another that has been sitting now for a few years unfinished, Cold Comfort Farm, I just ran out of steam about halfway through.


Return to “Books and Reading”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 17 guests