Feasibility of colony on Mars

[scrumpyjack]

I can't help thinking the time effort, cost and innovation would be far better spent getting our own planet healthy again. Who would ever want to live on a bleak, cold and dead place? OK perhaps really fat people, thanks to the weaker gravity. The fact that Musk seems to think there's a future there is far more an indication of his hyper-inflated ego than any medium term reality.

Stephen Hawking thought it was vital that we colonise other planets because otherwise there is a significant risk of the extinction of our species if we only exist on one planet. Mars is a start on that. Whatever one thinks of Musk's quirks, I have a lot of respect for his judgement on scientific matters and he seems to think colonising Mars is practical.

[CliffEdge]

I can't help thinking the time effort, cost and innovation would be far better spent getting our own planet healthy again. Who would ever want to live on a bleak, cold and dead place? OK perhaps really fat people, thanks to the weaker gravity. The fact that Musk seems to think there's a future there is far more an indication of his hyper-inflated ego than any medium term reality.

But is the idea really that different than the explorers and colonialists of centuries ago? I imagine that, in their day, people like Columbus, Magellan and Drake were also mocked for their fantasies and wild ideas, and yet they changed the world forever.

I think that we should boldly go . . .

I think that someone else should boldly go, not me though. I'll stick to Tenerife
If they get down, how would they get back up?

[scrumpyjack]

I can't help thinking the time effort, cost and innovation would be far better spent getting our own planet healthy again. Who would ever want to live on a bleak, cold and dead place? OK perhaps really fat people, thanks to the weaker gravity. The fact that Musk seems to think there's a future there is far more an indication of his hyper-inflated ego than any medium term reality.

But is the idea really that different than the explorers and colonialists of centuries ago? I imagine that, in their day, people like Columbus, Magellan and Drake were also mocked for their fantasies and wild ideas, and yet they changed the world forever.

I think that we should boldly go . . .

I think that someone else should boldly go, not me though. I'll stick to Tenerife
If they get down, how would they get back up?

Apparently not difficult to manufacture rocket fuel from water. That is apparently the plan.

[odysseus2000]

There is no practical reasons why we could not build a colony on Mars with re-supply from Earth for the first few years.

Crew en-route to Mars, can be protected from radiation by large solenoids around the living quarters.

On Mars living and agriculture would have to be underground to protect from radiation.

The problem with a mission to occupy Mars is what the journey and confinement would do to the settlers. There have been various pilot studies of long duration exposure to confinement, both in space and on earth and additionally lots of data on submarine crews.

Whether going to Mars is a good idea tends to polarise humans. On the one hand people argue that we should spend the money on improving earth, but since the 1950's we have had the capacity to destroy the planet and there is ample historical evidence of mass extinctions caused by impacts with space objects. Staying on earth and not building planetary defences seems like taking an extraordinary risk with humanity.

The people who argue that we must go to Mars are often ridiculed, but the quality of the ridicule is often very low.

On balance it seems that colonising Mars has more going for it, than focusing on the Earth. We can make Earth perfect but if we then allow a nuclear war we lose our ability to colonise the Moon and Mars and all the potential advantages from such colonies and such an Earth based system will not protect us from rocks, comets and such that can destroy civilisation.

Regards,

[redsturgeon]

I can't help thinking the time effort, cost and innovation would be far better spent getting our own planet healthy again. Who would ever want to live on a bleak, cold and dead place? OK perhaps really fat people, thanks to the weaker gravity. The fact that Musk seems to think there's a future there is far more an indication of his hyper-inflated ego than any medium term reality.

But is the idea really that different than the explorers and colonialists of centuries ago? I imagine that, in their day, people like Columbus, Magellan and Drake were also mocked for their fantasies and wild ideas, and yet they changed the world forever.

I think that we should boldly go . . .

Yes but in those days the conditions in the home countries for the poor, starving and oppressed masses were so bad that the hope of a better life anywhere was attractive, whereas now...oh maybe you have a point.

[odysseus2000]

I can't help thinking the time effort, cost and innovation would be far better spent getting our own planet healthy again. Who would ever want to live on a bleak, cold and dead place? OK perhaps really fat people, thanks to the weaker gravity. The fact that Musk seems to think there's a future there is far more an indication of his hyper-inflated ego than any medium term reality.

But is the idea really that different than the explorers and colonialists of centuries ago? I imagine that, in their day, people like Columbus, Magellan and Drake were also mocked for their fantasies and wild ideas, and yet they changed the world forever.

I think that we should boldly go . . .

Yes but in those days the conditions in the home countries for the poor, starving and oppressed masses were so bad that the hope of a better life anywhere was attractive, whereas now...oh maybe you have a point.

One can clearly point to areas & nations where living conditions have got worse, but one can point to many more where living conditions have got better.

People often laugh when I note that the availability of the internet via satellites will have positive out comes for many, but when you look on YouTube & other media one sees that people who at one time at no market beyond their local area now have access to world markets and as such folk prosper so do surrounding people. The situation is not unlike how the railways brought prosperity to many parts of the world.

Regards,

[CliffEdge]

People often laugh when I note that the availability of the internet via satellites will have positive out comes for many, but when you look on YouTube & other media one sees that people who at one time at no market beyond their local area now have access to world markets and as such folk prosper so do surrounding people. The situation is not unlike how the railways brought prosperity to many parts of the world.

Regards,

Oh that definitely is hilarious. Laughter is the best medicine.

Actually no it's not funny, not funny at all. Downright dangerous. The market for insanity is now global.

[stevensfo]

I assume that before any great numbers arrive on Mars, their living quarters, energy sources etc will already have been prepared by robots.

As far as I can see, the biggest question will be the availability of water. If there really are huge reservoirs of ice underground and they can be easily accessed, then they'll have everything they need.

Solar panels will provide electricity to catalyse water into oxygen and hydrogen (I remember that from O-level Chemistry practicals) so they'll have fuel, air and water.

Since hydrogen balloons would be very safe in the atmosphere, I don't see why they shouldn't use 'zeppelins' to travel long distances.

However, anything other than a one-way trip would add considerably to the cost and danger.

Maybe we can start a list of people to send?

Steve

[mc2fool]

Solar panels will provide electricity to catalyse water into oxygen and hydrogen (I remember that from O-level Chemistry practicals) so they'll have fuel, air and water.

Air is only 21% oxygen. 78% is nitrogen and the other 1% other gases (mostly argon but some CO2 of course). An all oxygen atmosphere wouldn't be a good idea (see Apollo 1 fire), although having oxygen is a good start ...

[ursaminortaur]

I assume that before any great numbers arrive on Mars, their living quarters, energy sources etc will already have been prepared by robots.

As far as I can see, the biggest question will be the availability of water. If there really are huge reservoirs of ice underground and they can be easily accessed, then they'll have everything they need.

Solar panels will provide electricity to catalyse water into oxygen and hydrogen (I remember that from O-level Chemistry practicals) so they'll have fuel, air and water.

Since hydrogen balloons would be very safe in the atmosphere, I don't see why they shouldn't use 'zeppelins' to travel long distances.

However, anything other than a one-way trip would add considerably to the cost and danger.

Maybe we can start a list of people to send?

Steve

Oxygen can also be produced from the CO2 rich martian atmosphere.

https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-s-perseverance-mars-rover-extracts-first-oxygen-from-red-planet

The Martian atmosphere also includes Nitrogen though at a much lower concentration than on Earth. Hence an Earth like atmosphere can be produced for habitats by concentrating Nitrogen from the atmosphere and combining it with around 20% oxygen.

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2019/with-mars-methane-mystery-unsolved-curiosity-serves-scientists-a-new-one-oxygen

The results SAM spit out confirmed the makeup of the Martian atmosphere at the surface: 95% by volume of carbon dioxide (CO2), 2.6% molecular nitrogen (N2), 1.9% argon (Ar), 0.16% molecular oxygen (O2), and 0.06% carbon monoxide (CO)

And combining CO2 with frozen water found on Mars can also be used to manufacture rocket fuel for return journeys.

https://www.futurity.org/mars-rocket-fuel-space-travel-2647692/

As on the Moon, regolith (rocks) can also be processed to create building materials.

https://www.inverse.com/science/mars-city-building-materials

[Tedx]

Mars has ended up the way it is through a natural process. Do we really need to f*** around with another planet?

[ursaminortaur]

Mars has ended up the way it is through a natural process. Do we really need to f*** around with another planet?

Apart from the difficulty, the only argument I can think of against colonising Mars is that doing so too soon could contaminate Mars and prevent us identifying an independent development of life there. To me it would seem a gigantic waste of resources if we were not to colonise Mars and either colonise or otherwise make use of the Solar system. (If you are of a religious bent then why would God have created so much empty real estate and resources if it wasn't meant for our use once we had developed sufficient technology to reach it).