India lands space craft on Moon's south pole

[odysseus2000]

India lands a space craft of the south pole of the moon:

https://youtu.be/dim8elzo5vE?si=XPm4yRJDRnrLMiCe

Interesting how mission control look far bigger than the Apollo control looked.

How long now before one can vacation on the moon?

Regards,

[stevensfo]

India lands a space craft of the south pole of the moon:

https://youtu.be/dim8elzo5vE?si=XPm4yRJDRnrLMiCe

Interesting how mission control look far bigger than the Apollo control looked.

How long now before one can vacation on the moon?

Regards,

This is exciting. I hope they can locate ice under the surface. Though with the almost zero pressure and low gravity, I imagine that any ice will be quite deep.

Re. Vacation, I may start a crowdfunding appeal for Boris Johnson to be the first UK politician sent there. He provides his own hot air, so no need for any heating.

On a more serious note, if there is ice and other countries follow, what will it look like politically in 20 years? New London, New Washington, New Moscow, New Beijing and New Delhi all claiming land?

Steve

[Tedx]

India lands a space craft of the south pole of the moon:

I'm really not sure what to takeaway from this.

[ReformedCharacter]

India lands a space craft of the south pole of the moon:

https://youtu.be/dim8elzo5vE?si=XPm4yRJDRnrLMiCe

Interesting how mission control look far bigger than the Apollo control looked.

How long now before one can vacation on the moon?

Regards,

I believe that there were a large number of mission specialists outside of the control room itself, backup computer systems and other specialists who could be called upon as needed. So the number of individuals visible in the control room were only a proportion of those who were needed to control the missions.

RC

[odysseus2000]

India lands a space craft of the south pole of the moon:

https://youtu.be/dim8elzo5vE?si=XPm4yRJDRnrLMiCe

Interesting how mission control look far bigger than the Apollo control looked.

How long now before one can vacation on the moon?

Regards,

This is exciting. I hope they can locate ice under the surface. Though with the almost zero pressure and low gravity, I imagine that any ice will be quite deep.

Re. Vacation, I may start a crowdfunding appeal for Boris Johnson to be the first UK politician sent there. He provides his own hot air, so no need for any heating.

On a more serious note, if there is ice and other countries follow, what will it look like politically in 20 years? New London, New Washington, New Moscow, New Beijing and New Delhi all claiming land?

Steve

Who owns the moon:

https://www.talksonlaw.com/briefs/who-o ... d%20access.

Regards,

[doolally]

India lands a space craft of the south pole of the moon:

I'm really not sure what to takeaway from this.

Oh, that is so....... rubbish!!
1/10, must try harder
doolally

[odysseus2000]

Indian South Pole lander deploys its rover, leaving tracks in moon dust:

https://youtu.be/rrTtLze5Ydk?si=YopYQ2XAin53UGvA

Regards,

[kiloran]

Indian South Pole lander deploys its rover, leaving tracks in moon dust:

https://youtu.be/rrTtLze5Ydk?si=YopYQ2XAin53UGvA

Regards,

Obviously recorded in a studio, like Armstrong and Aldrin

--kiloran

[scrumpyjack]

India lands a space craft of the south pole of the moon:

I'm really not sure what to takeaway from this.

Oh, that is so....... rubbish!!
1/10, must try harder
doolally

Bet it's chilli up there

[odysseus2000]

[Removed]

The more stuff that safely gets to the moon, the closer the time to the first tourists & ethnic restaurants with the usual outcry from scientists arguing that the moon is too good for tourists.

If there is lots of water as some believe at the poles then that adds to the tourist attractiveness.

Regards,

PS I got banned the other day for no reason that I could figure having done nothing & thought I at last had evidence that aliens wanted me de-platformed, alas if others had the same treatment the reasons may be more mundane.

[Tedx]

It'll be a real bhuna for the lunar economy, that's for sure.

[richfool]

It'll be a real bhuna for the lunar economy, that's for sure.

But if it goes wrong up there, it will crater for sure.

[csearle]

I think that it might go to show the value of failure in improving learning. The Indians had a failed attempt four years ago and appear to have overcome whatever beset them last time; the Russians on the other hand have had their failure last month. Maybe in four years' time they too will succeed?
Chris

PS. I was struck by an interview with an American astronaut, who had shared the International Space Station with some Russian cosmonauts as the red flashes below lit up the war in eastern Ukraine. They hadn't talked about it, I think because having political conversations is unwise under those circumstances. Apparently one or two of those cosmonauts are now in the Russian Duma supporting President Putin and the war. He found it depressing that clearly intelligent and worldly individuals, such as these clearly must be, could condone such a horrific invasion.

[odysseus2000]

I think that it might go to show the value of failure in improving learning. The Indians had a failed attempt four years ago and appear to have overcome whatever beset them last time; the Russians on the other hand have had their failure last month. Maybe in four years' time they too will succeed?
Chris

PS. I was struck by an interview with an American astronaut, who had shared the International Space Station with some Russian cosmonauts as the red flashes below lit up the war in eastern Ukraine. They hadn't talked about it, I think because having political conversations is unwise under those circumstances. Apparently one or two of those cosmonauts are now in the Russian Duma supporting President Putin and the war. He found it depressing that clearly intelligent and worldly individuals, such as these clearly must be, could condone such a horrific invasion.

The ussr returned moon samples in 1970 via a remote space craft:

https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LRO/ ... -luna.html

I have met many Russian physicists & any idea that they are inferior or have insufficient technical ability to do very advanced practical science is ridiculous. If you study the careers of Ginsberg, who I met, or Sakharov one can not help being humbled by their titanic achievements.

Also given that the US has invaded many more countries than Russia in the recent past & killed many opponents & had substantial support for these escapades from many nations including the uk, it is probably best that the space station & science stays as politics free as possible.

Regards,

[ReformedCharacter]

I think that it might go to show the value of failure in improving learning. The Indians had a failed attempt four years ago and appear to have overcome whatever beset them last time; the Russians on the other hand have had their failure last month. Maybe in four years' time they too will succeed?
Chris

PS. I was struck by an interview with an American astronaut, who had shared the International Space Station with some Russian cosmonauts as the red flashes below lit up the war in eastern Ukraine. They hadn't talked about it, I think because having political conversations is unwise under those circumstances. Apparently one or two of those cosmonauts are now in the Russian Duma supporting President Putin and the war. He found it depressing that clearly intelligent and worldly individuals, such as these clearly must be, could condone such a horrific invasion.

I thought that was an excellent interview, part of the Daily Telegraph's 'Ukraine The Latest':

Today, we bring you the latest updates from the battlefront, analyse the vital decision over the weekend to send fighter planes to Ukraine, and interview Former NASA Astronaut and test fighter pilot, Terry Virts. He speaks about his experience working with Russian cosmonauts, the moment he saw the 2014 war break out from space, and the West’s strategic thinking regarding Ukraine.

The part of the interview with Terry Virts starts at 26.35s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_2b7qJwNSQ

RC

[ReformedCharacter]

The ussr returned moon samples in 1970 via a remote space craft:

https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LRO/ ... -luna.html

I have met many Russian physicists & any idea that they are inferior or have insufficient technical ability to do very advanced practical science is ridiculous. If you study the careers of Ginsberg, who I met, or Sakharov one can not help being humbled by their titanic achievements.

Regards,

For anyone interested in the history of the very considerable achievements of the Soviet scientists, I recommend Boris Chertok's 'Rockets and People' series, published by NASA. The books cover the period from entering Berlin to inspect and remove German technology in 1945 to c. 1980. Apart from the history of technological development in the USSR there are some fascinating insights into how the Soviet system worked. Many of Chertok's colleagues were shot or imprisoned by Stalin, and Chertok only avoided that fate by a stroke of luck. A very good read for those interested in such things, free in PDF format:

https://www.nasa.gov/connect/ebooks/roc ... etail.html

RC

[JohnB]

Scott Manley's take on the Indian failure, and what they needed to fix. Basically harsh braking took the spacecraft out of too narrow a tolerance window, and the software struggled to land in the originally planned location.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ngVl6iO94c

[odysseus2000]

I think that it might go to show the value of failure in improving learning. The Indians had a failed attempt four years ago and appear to have overcome whatever beset them last time; the Russians on the other hand have had their failure last month. Maybe in four years' time they too will succeed?
Chris

PS. I was struck by an interview with an American astronaut, who had shared the International Space Station with some Russian cosmonauts as the red flashes below lit up the war in eastern Ukraine. They hadn't talked about it, I think because having political conversations is unwise under those circumstances. Apparently one or two of those cosmonauts are now in the Russian Duma supporting President Putin and the war. He found it depressing that clearly intelligent and worldly individuals, such as these clearly must be, could condone such a horrific invasion.

I thought that was an excellent interview, part of the Daily Telegraph's 'Ukraine The Latest':

Today, we bring you the latest updates from the battlefront, analyse the vital decision over the weekend to send fighter planes to Ukraine, and interview Former NASA Astronaut and test fighter pilot, Terry Virts. He speaks about his experience working with Russian cosmonauts, the moment he saw the 2014 war break out from space, and the West’s strategic thinking regarding Ukraine.

The part of the interview with Terry Virts starts at 26.35s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_2b7qJwNSQ

RC

Fabulous job of presenting stuff without context laced with massive inaccuracies. At the one moment he is arguing that Russian technology is no good, full of bad workmanship, badly installed, then at the next saying he would not want to fly an f16 there because the Russian air defense would shoot it down. He then goes on to describe how much better the f35 is, doing his best to garnish more sales for US defense industries, arguing that Ukraine should be given these. But given is not what is happening. The US is supplying military hardware via lend lease, as they did to the uk in the second war, creating huge amounts of debt for Ukraine. It took the uk 70 years to pay off US lend lease & who ever controls Ukraine after the war will have many billions of $ of debt to repay. Fascinating how the whole podcast treated the Ukrainian conflict as some kind of good v evil, cartoon like in its simplicity story. This remarkable weaponization of science & technology as like it is some video game & that the only threat to the world is global warming, forgetting that a nuclear war would both be extremely devastating & likely set off a nuclear winter that would counter global warming but not in any good way. The western condemnation of the Ukraine war is not being supported by the emerging powers of China & India & this polarization of the world is not being covered by the weaponisation of science to create an Orwell like vision that ignores all the complexities & dangers of the real situation.

Regards,

[Adamski]

Do wonder why the billionaire class and nation states, India, Russia, US, get a free pass in polluting the environment with space tourism. The co2 emissions of one space flight, factoring in take off, and co2 emitted directly into the upper atmosphere, must be massive compared to the average person on the planet's co2 emissions. Not expecting helicopter Rishi to do anything on this, but be nice if there was consistency, whilst we're about to have EVs and heat pumps imposed on the general public.

[ReformedCharacter]

Fabulous job of presenting stuff without context laced with massive inaccuracies. At the one moment he is arguing that Russian technology is no good, full of bad workmanship, badly installed, then at the next saying he would not want to fly an f16 there because the Russian air defense would shoot it down. He then goes on to describe how much better the f35 is, doing his best to garnish more sales for US defense industries, arguing that Ukraine should be given these. But given is not what is happening. The US is supplying military hardware via lend lease, as they did to the uk in the second war, creating huge amounts of debt for Ukraine. It took the uk 70 years to pay off US lend lease & who ever controls Ukraine after the war will have many billions of $ of debt to repay. Fascinating how the whole podcast treated the Ukrainian conflict as some kind of good v evil, cartoon like in its simplicity story. This remarkable weaponization of science & technology as like it is some video game & that the only threat to the world is global warming, forgetting that a nuclear war would both be extremely devastating & likely set off a nuclear winter that would counter global warming but not in any good way. The western condemnation of the Ukraine war is not being supported by the emerging powers of China & India & this polarization of the world is not being covered by the weaponisation of science to create an Orwell like vision that ignores all the complexities & dangers of the real situation.

Regards,

I think it's fair comment that the Russian space industry has performed poorly in the last decade, mainly quality control issues.

In the past six years, the Russian space program has seen an abysmal 15 rocket failures. Some of these have been for high-profile customers such as Mexico and Intelsat. Some have carried expensive space probes such as the Fobos-Grunt, an ambitious probe meant to land on Phobos, the Martian moon, but that never even left Earth orbit.

https://slate.com/technology/2017/03/russias-space-program-is-in-trouble.html

Virts does say that the F16 is 'the best plane ever made', and praises it's utility. He does, probably correctly, point out that it isn't the latest technology and is vulnerable to Russian air defences. A well-balanced comment IMO. I doubt if he's under the impression that he will 'garnish more sales for US defense industries' by contributing to a Telegraph podcast. In the longer term, it would make sense for Ukraine to be supplied by more modern aircraft to replace the F16s as is happening in other countries.

I do not know the terms under which the US provides military support to Ukraine and would be interested in finding out more, if you could provide a link that would be helpful. Perhaps the US public does not know this either since I've read that there is much criticism in some quarters about the billions of aid being provided to Ukraine by the US taxpayers. In any case, the Ukrainian economy has been devastated.

As to the podcast describing the 'Ukrainian conflict as some kind of good v evil, cartoon like in its simplicity story', there's some truth in your comment, but it is only a podcast and IMO the actions of the Russian state are accurately described as evil, not a term I use lightly.

I agree that China and India has not condemned the Russian invasion as has the West has done, but that's self-interest or realpolitik and entirely predictable. We seem to have gone off topic for this thread, my apologies.

RC