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The Catholic Church and Original Sin?

Religion and Philosophy
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DiamondEcho
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Re: The Catholic Church and Original Sin?

#166757

Postby DiamondEcho » September 16th, 2018, 6:30 pm

Does anyone else remember that bonkers man who used to spend his days wearing 'sandwich boards' on Oxford Street/London back in the 70s, megaphone in hand yelling the bible? 'The end is nigh (etc)!!'

I haven't encountered anyone like that recently; perhaps they've all gone online?

Tara
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Re: The Catholic Church and Original Sin?

#166760

Postby Tara » September 16th, 2018, 6:42 pm

Quite sad that everyone here including the moderators is willing to let Beeswax repeatedly get away with his anti-Christian hate speech, and yet I am fairly sure that he would be roundly condemned by most people here if he ever used any Islamophobic or anti-semitic language.

What a sad little land this once-Christian place has become.

Sic transit gloria mundi.

redsturgeon
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Re: The Catholic Church and Original Sin?

#166775

Postby redsturgeon » September 16th, 2018, 7:47 pm

Tara wrote:Quite sad that everyone here including the moderators is willing to let Beeswax repeatedly get away with his anti-Christian hate speech, and yet I am fairly sure that he would be roundly condemned by most people here if he ever used any Islamophobic or anti-semitic language.

What a sad little land this once-Christian place has become.

Sic transit gloria mundi.


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FYI Beeswax is subject to a permanent ban.

Charlottesquare
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Re: The Catholic Church and Original Sin?

#166776

Postby Charlottesquare » September 16th, 2018, 7:51 pm

Itsallaguess wrote:
Charlottesquare wrote:
Consider Adam and Eve from a non literal perspective as a statement of the human condition not a historical series of events is the answer.

You maybe do not like this reliance on the figurative, and you have a fair argument in that it is, within the history of the Church, a fairly recent variant re its thought, but given they have changed their interpretation in light of evidence surely that needs commended; lets face it, we do not castigate science for its beliefs x period ago and we applaud it for its willingness to continue to revise its views.


Can you please explain what 'evidence' the Church has used to change their interpretation?

Cheers,

Itsallaguess


Darwin and evolution, archaeology, science have all over time brought to bear a need (followed by acceptance) to step away from the literal within the Bible to the figurative. Eventual acceptance of the Earth's place within our solar system being but one manifestation of the changing views of the RC Church.

Having said that I suspect within the RC Church itself the literal to figurative movement was on the table well before its acceptance in full view of the laity, there have always been thinkers within the RC Church, as would be expected re its role in advancing learning over the years, its problem has been permitting those thinkers to air their thoughts.

I am certainly the wrong person to defend the RC Church, I have no affinity with it or really with any Church, but just as no political or social structure is infallible re its behaviour, especially over long periods of history, so it appears wrong to require the RC Church to live to a standard that no other body has ever achieved over a 2000 year period.

The RC Church is a construct of man, an interpretation by man of some events which, whether true or not, its leaders believe in and are believed by the adherents of that faith to a greater or lesser degree. It has shown vast fault within its history but so have most man made constructs, e.g., Fascism, Communism have managed to wreak a fair bit of damage in their short lived to date manifestations on Earth and I am pretty sure will manage to wreak more damage before the Earth is no more.

The Christian Church is embedded in Europe's history, our literature, entertainment often arises from its very existence; these days one studies English Literature with an eye on The Bible and an eye on Marx, accordingly whilst it may be illogical to some (myself included) re its teachings it is a very important part of what we are, where we are from and maybe sometimes adds a little re what we ought to be.

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Re: The Catholic Church and Original Sin?

#166801

Postby Tara » September 16th, 2018, 9:48 pm

redsturgeon wrote:
Tara wrote:Quite sad that everyone here including the moderators is willing to let Beeswax repeatedly get away with his anti-Christian hate speech, and yet I am fairly sure that he would be roundly condemned by most people here if he ever used any Islamophobic or anti-semitic language.

What a sad little land this once-Christian place has become.

Sic transit gloria mundi.


Moderator Message:
FYI Beeswax is subject to a permanent ban.


Well that is reassuring news. If there is zero tolerance of Islamophobia and anti-semitism in this country, there must be also be zero tolerance of anti-Christianity.

There is already more than enough of these Beeswax types and their nasty and hateful anti-Christian speech on various other outlets such as the BBC, Channel 4, and The Guardian.

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Re: The Catholic Church and Original Sin?

#166806

Postby Tara » September 16th, 2018, 10:34 pm

Charlottesquare said :

The RC Church is a construct of man.



Well that would be disputed by The Catholic Church, every Saint of The Catholic Church, and every faithful Catholic who is living today.

According to Catholic teaching, the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History ... lic_Church

DiamondEcho
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Re: The Catholic Church and Original Sin?

#166807

Postby DiamondEcho » September 16th, 2018, 10:42 pm

Meanwhile, back on topic, this reminds me of his major loud [megaphoned] proclomation: 'You're either a sinner, or a winner!'. You seemingly couldn't visit Oxford Street without encountering him.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/ ... eligion.uk

[From 2006]
'Is he a winner - or a sinner?
Phil Howard dresses like a recovering alcoholic. He once claimed to be a werewolf, but, in the 11 years spent preaching his message, "Don't be a sinner, be a winner," at Oxford Circus in the heart of London, he has never shown so much as a five o'clock shadow. There have been altercations of course. Last summer he was cleared of harassment, and, satisfied, told journalists: "This proves once and for all that Satan won't win." '

stewamax
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Re: The Catholic Church and Original Sin?

#171883

Postby stewamax » October 6th, 2018, 12:27 pm

Charlottesquare said :
The RC Church is a construct of man.

Well that would be disputed by The Catholic Church, every Saint of The Catholic Church, and every faithful Catholic who is living today.
According to Catholic teaching, the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ.


There is a teeny difference between Jesus' "laying" a foundation stone (the Rock, a.k.a. Simon Peter) in the rural city of Caesarea Philippi and the construction of the colossal and colossally expensive gilded splendour of St. Peter's Basilica.

The 'church'* was not necessarily the organisation - whether RC or other - we see today.

* In the matchless language of the (Anglican) King James Bible: "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Tara
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Re: The Catholic Church and Original Sin?

#172134

Postby Tara » October 7th, 2018, 7:32 pm

There is a teeny difference between Jesus' "laying" a foundation stone (the Rock, a.k.a. Simon Peter) in the rural city of Caesarea Philippi and the construction of the colossal and colossally expensive gilded splendour of St. Peter's Basilica.

The 'church' was not necessarily the organisation - whether RC or other - we see today.


Again, that would be disputed by The Catholic Church, every Saint of The Catholic Church, and every faithful Catholic who is living today.

According to Catholic teaching, the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ.

The first Pope of The Catholic Church was St. Peter, and Jesus Christ gave St. Peter the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven.

There has only been one Church that has existed since Jesus Christ was on earth and that is The Catholic Church.

All of the other churches that exist now are protestant churches that were started by ordinary men within the last few hundred years.

stewamax
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Re: The Catholic Church and Original Sin?

#172148

Postby stewamax » October 7th, 2018, 8:39 pm

All of the other churches that exist now are protestant churches that were started by ordinary men within the last few hundred years.

Hmm... given that we are confining ourselves to Christianity shall we start with the Greek Orthodox church that pre-dates the church of Roman and whose liturgy is based on the works of Saint John Chrysostom (circa 380 AD). They also have a concept of original sin but one that is 'inherited' differently from the Augustinian view of the church of Rome.
And let us not forget the good old C of E whose Anglo-Catholic wing at least would not regard themselves as Protestant but Reformed Catholic (verging on Mariolatry perhaps, but with no Pope and no transubstantiation). It has been around in its pre-reformation form since the 3rd C.

Tara
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Re: The Catholic Church and Original Sin?

#172170

Postby Tara » October 7th, 2018, 10:31 pm

stewamax wrote:
All of the other churches that exist now are protestant churches that were started by ordinary men within the last few hundred years.

Hmm... given that we are confining ourselves to Christianity shall we start with the Greek Orthodox church that pre-dates the church of Roman and whose liturgy is based on the works of Saint John Chrysostom (circa 380 AD). They also have a concept of original sin but one that is 'inherited' differently from the Augustinian view of the church of Rome.
And let us not forget the good old C of E whose Anglo-Catholic wing at least would not regard themselves as Protestant but Reformed Catholic (verging on Mariolatry perhaps, but with no Pope and no transubstantiation). It has been around in its pre-reformation form since the 3rd C.


List of Popes starting with St. Peter, the first Pope of The Catholic Church, to the present day.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_popes

I have simply explained what The Catholic Church teaches and what faithful Catholics believe. I assume that you are not a Catholic, so if you do not agree then that is fine.

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ap8889
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Re: The Catholic Church and Original Sin?

#172325

Postby ap8889 » October 8th, 2018, 6:25 pm

This aggression will not stand: You forgot to mention the Church of the Latter Day Dude, home of my own deeply held Dudeist faith. Definitely the fastest growing religion based on a far-out Jeff Bridges movie.

As the Dude says: New information has come to light. The Dude told us to abide and the faithful listened. I bowl. Drive around. The occasional acid flashback. The usual. Uhh... lost my train of thought there...

Anyways, keep on takin' it easy. Lotta ins, lotta outs with this religion stuff. But all I really need to know, I learned from the Big Lebowski.

The movie portrays humans displaying aspects such as trauma, anger and aggression (Walther), self aggrandizement and greed (Jeffery Lebowski), sycophancy (Brad) and also timid passivity (Donny). But also the capacity for love, friendship and self actualization (The Dude). We don't revere the Dude because he is unemployed, smokes weed and bowls. We revere his outlook on life, his attitude and the way he is true to himself and respectfully humane to all whom he encounters, even in the face of provocations like having someone micturate upon his rug. We might behave as any character from the movie when we encounter life's strikes and gutter-balls. . . Perhaps we should all learn what really ties our room together and find it again, like His Dudeness.

Or not.

I leave you with a quote from someone who truly gets what it means to abide: "Life is short and complicated and nobody knows what to do about it. So don’t do anything about it. Just take it easy, man."


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