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Ultimate Sanction?

Religion and Philosophy
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UncleEbenezer
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Ultimate Sanction?

#216341

Postby UncleEbenezer » April 20th, 2019, 1:05 pm

Moderator Message:
RS: Moved here from DAK


The Catholic Church has joined with the rest of the rest of the world in condemning that recent murder of a journalist in Northern Ireland.

Given the historic associations, it seems likely the terrorists consider themselves Catholic. What would it take for the Church to exercise its ultimate sanction and excommunicate members of a terrorist group?

quelquod
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Re: Ultimate Sanction?

#216531

Postby quelquod » April 21st, 2019, 7:55 pm

Considerably more than a single murder I would suggest (and hope), and labelling it as terrorism doesn’t really alter the act. Hate the crime as the popular adage goes. I’m not an RC far less expert, but I’d suppose it would take a determined and unrepentant course of action in the face of a direct warning from a senior cleric. Not in the same class as sustained heresy from a religious viewpoint perhaps.

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Re: Ultimate Sanction?

#216965

Postby gryffron » April 24th, 2019, 11:14 am

Do they routinely excommunicate convicted murderers? I'd hope not. Surely one of the core messages of christianity (and RC in particular) is that no-one is beyond redemption.

Routinely excommunicating sinners would be acceptance that:
a) god is NOT all merciful
b) the church has failed in its core duty to redeem them

Gryff

Dod101
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Re: Ultimate Sanction?

#216967

Postby Dod101 » April 24th, 2019, 11:25 am

gryffron wrote:b) the church has failed in its core duty to redeem them


I am no at all sure that it is the church's 'core duty to redeem them'. It is a self appointed duty if that and so they could easily be flexible about it. Still, I do not think I could visualise the church ever ex communicating a murderer since as Gryffon says the church takes it upon itself to offer redemption and forgiveness of sin to all.

Dod

UncleEbenezer
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Re: Ultimate Sanction?

#216973

Postby UncleEbenezer » April 24th, 2019, 12:10 pm

The fact that the church can excommunicate anyone tells us that redemption doesn't always apply.

In the case of terrorists, I'd expect it to go something like, repent and be redeemed, or go unrepentant to hell. That's where they could perhaps take a constructive role: insist that the perpetrators publicly denounce the violence they practiced, and only then grant absolution. Or some such approach.

In terms of what influence they might have, I was kind-of thinking of insights from Graham Greene novels into a catholic mindset.

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Re: Ultimate Sanction?

#216999

Postby ReformedCharacter » April 24th, 2019, 2:29 pm

UncleEbenezer wrote:The fact that the church can excommunicate anyone tells us that redemption doesn't always apply.

I think excommunication (in the RC faith) is intended to encourage redemption rather than exclude it:

Excommunication is a rarely applied censure and thus a "medicinal penalty" intended to invite the person to change behaviour or attitude, repent, and return to full communion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excommuni ... lic_Church)

RC


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