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Should Islam, Christianity and Judaism unite?

Religion and Philosophy
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we are introducing this on a trial basis and that respect for other's views is important e.g. phrases like "your imaginary friend" or "you will go to hell" are not appropriate
GJHarney
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Re: Should Islam, Christianity and Judaism unite?

#47686

Postby GJHarney » April 21st, 2017, 5:02 pm

Halicarnassus wrote:[

The problem we have is that we have elevated man to a God like status. What God does is beyond our grasp.

Everything that has been done by God and is recorded in the Bible is just. Whether we fully understand it or not is irrelevant.



I'm interested as to why you focus on one book and not others. Are all holy books just or just the one you have chosen? And did God choose which books when into the Christian bible or men, given the Dead Sea scrolls continue to give up a fascinating alternate versions of the New Testament and additional lost books from it - are these lost books divine and just too, and if not why not?

I do understand that it is easier to not to try and understand. After all, if you add up all the people that were killed according to the Bible as a result of God's actions it comes to around 25,000,000 as an estimate. That includes God-sent floods, plagues, ethnic cleansings, God ordered stonings of entire families etc. (he'd surely be a shoe-in for ISIS membership!).

The Bible tells us that Satan only killed 10 people in the same period, but that these were as a result of a bet with God so were actually God's fault anyway as God gave Satan permission. I've never worked out why poor old Satan gets such a bad rap if you believe that the Bible is true because surely it is God who is 'evil'? In fact the Cathars appear to have sussed that one out quite well, but for their trouble entire communities were put to death by the Church for pointing out the blinkin' obvious, but it is that old 'justice' thing again isn't it?

The way around this of course is to take Ludwig Feuerbach as a starting point for looking at God as a psychological projection of man. In other words it is us who create the gods (and we have created many thousands of them over the years of human existence), the gods don't create us. Besides, anyone who comes up with the line “I would rather be a devil in alliance with truth, than an angel in alliance with falsehood” has got to be worth taking seriously ;)

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Re: Should Islam, Christianity and Judaism unite?

#47705

Postby Vision25 » April 21st, 2017, 5:41 pm

A more relevant question is "Could Islam, Christianity and Judaism unite".

And the answer is no.

Islam hasn't had its reformation yet.

Vision25

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Re: Should Islam, Christianity and Judaism unite?

#47749

Postby Halicarnassus » April 21st, 2017, 11:52 pm

GJHarney wrote:
The way around this of course is to take Ludwig Feuerbach as a starting point for looking at God as a psychological projection of man. In other words it is us who create the gods (and we have created many thousands of them over the years of human existence), the gods don't create us. Besides, anyone who comes up with the line “I would rather be a devil in alliance with truth, than an angel in alliance with falsehood” has got to be worth taking seriously ;)


There have been so many miracles wrought that yes man must be a powerful psychologist indeed :lol:
And that quotation is itself false as any self respecting student of metaphysics would tell you.

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Re: Should Islam, Christianity and Judaism unite?

#47925

Postby GJHarney » April 23rd, 2017, 7:11 am

Halicarnassus wrote:
GJHarney wrote:
The way around this of course is to take Ludwig Feuerbach as a starting point for looking at God as a psychological projection of man. In other words it is us who create the gods (and we have created many thousands of them over the years of human existence), the gods don't create us. Besides, anyone who comes up with the line “I would rather be a devil in alliance with truth, than an angel in alliance with falsehood” has got to be worth taking seriously ;)


There have been so many miracles wrought that yes man must be a powerful psychologist indeed :lol:
And that quotation is itself false as any self respecting student of metaphysics would tell you.


I've never seen a miracle, have you? I've never seen an alleged one in modern times stand up to any kind of scrutiny either come to that, but it is telling that you don't want to dwell on the evil doing God of the Bible (or at least the version of God first part of it, it is possible to view the love and peace hippy God of the second section as a completely different entity entirely, perhaps the God of the Old Testament is actually Satan and those old Jewish writers got a bit confused?).

Anyway, back to Feuerbach, there is much to admire in his Essence of Christianity (where I took the truth/falsehood quote from), for example he also said of miracles (which for most believers seem to always be ancient and never contemporary):

If I place myself in the point of view of thought, of investigation, of theory, in which I consider things in themselves, in their mutual relations, the miracle-working being vanishes into nothing, miracle disappears; i.e., the religious miracle, which is absolutely different from the natural miracle, though they are continually interchanged, in order to stultify reason, and, under the appearance of natural science, to introduce religious miracle into the sphere of rationality and reality.

But for this very reason – namely, that religion is removed from the standpoint, from the nature of theory – the true, universal essence of Nature and humanity, which as such is hidden from religion and is only visible to the theoretic eye, is conceived as another, a miraculous and supernatural essence; the idea of the species becomes the idea of God, who again is himself an individual being, but is distinguished from human individuals in this, that he possesses their qualities according to the measure of the species. Hence, in religion man necessarily places his nature out of himself, regards his nature as a separate nature; necessarily, because the nature which is the object of theory lies outside of him, because all his conscious existence spends itself in his practical subjectivity. God is his alter ego, his other lost half; God is the complement of himself; in God he is first a perfect man. God is a need to him; something is wanting to him without his knowing what it is – God is this something wanting indispensable to him; God belongs to his nature. The world is nothing to religion, – the world, which is in truth the sum of all reality, is revealed in its glory only by theory. The joys of theory are the sweetest intellectual pleasures of life; but religion knows nothing of the joys of the thinker, of the investigator of Nature, of the artist. The idea of the universe is wanting to it, the consciousness of the really infinite, the consciousness of the species. God only is its compensation for the poverty of life, for the want of a substantial import, which the true life of rational contemplation presents in unending fullness. God is to religion the substitute for the lost world, – God is to it in the stead of pure contemplation, the life of theory.

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Re: Should Islam, Christianity and Judaism unite?

#47929

Postby Halicarnassus » April 23rd, 2017, 8:36 am

GJHarney wrote:
I've never seen a miracle, have you?


Well yes, at Mass every week. Catholics call it transubstantiation. But for those who do not believe, well they do not believe. And that's okay, that's free will for you. When you believe in Christ as God, then you are obligated to believe everything. God cannot lie, tell untruths, make mistakes.

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Re: Should Islam, Christianity and Judaism unite?

#47938

Postby Clariman » April 23rd, 2017, 10:09 am

But back to my original question or premise for it. Historically and logically Christians, Jews and Muslims believe in the same God. Even if I accept that Jesus is part God and part son of God, he is part of that original Jewish God. If you believe God sent his son for our salvation then you are acknowledging that your God existed before Jesus - therefore your God is the same as the Jewish God.

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Re: Should Islam, Christianity and Judaism unite?

#47944

Postby Halicarnassus » April 23rd, 2017, 10:59 am

Clariman wrote: If you believe God sent his son for our salvation then you are acknowledging that your God existed before Jesus - therefore your God is the same as the Jewish God.


Well Jesus the Son, has eternally Coexisted with God the Father and with God, the Holy Spirit. Three distinct persons in one Holy Trinity.

The Jews reject Christ as God and therefore reject a Trinitarian God. So the God they worship is God but an obsolete notion.

Saint Paul declares explicitly that Our Lord’s New Covenant “has made obsolete the former one,” that is, made obsolete the old Judaic Covenant. (Heb. 8:13)
He who honereth not the Son, honereth not the Father, who hath sent Him” (John 5:23).

Christ Himself said said to the Jews of His day, “If you do not believe that I am He [the Messiah], you will die in your sins.” (John 8:24); His words to the Jews: “You search the Scripture because in them you think you have life everlasting. And it is they that bear witness to Me, yet you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.” (John 5:39-40)

So not the same God.

NB By the way Clariman, not all Catholics agree on this. There was a revolution in the Church with the Ecumenical Council called Vatican II which has ushered in a period of liberalism and modernism, undermining the foundations of the Catholic Faith.

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Re: Should Islam, Christianity and Judaism unite?

#47963

Postby beeswax » April 23rd, 2017, 12:20 pm

Halicarnassus wrote:
Clariman wrote: If you believe God sent his son for our salvation then you are acknowledging that your God existed before Jesus - therefore your God is the same as the Jewish God.


Well Jesus the Son, has eternally Coexisted with God the Father and with God, the Holy Spirit. Three distinct persons in one Holy Trinity.

The Jews reject Christ as God and therefore reject a Trinitarian God. So the God they worship is God but an obsolete notion.

Saint Paul declares explicitly that Our Lord’s New Covenant “has made obsolete the former one,” that is, made obsolete the old Judaic Covenant. (Heb. 8:13)
He who honereth not the Son, honereth not the Father, who hath sent Him” (John 5:23).

Christ Himself said said to the Jews of His day, “If you do not believe that I am He [the Messiah], you will die in your sins.” (John 8:24); His words to the Jews: “You search the Scripture because in them you think you have life everlasting. And it is they that bear witness to Me, yet you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.” (John 5:39-40)

So not the same God.

NB By the way Clariman, not all Catholics agree on this. There was a revolution in the Church with the Ecumenical Council called Vatican II which has ushered in a period of liberalism and modernism, undermining the foundations of the Catholic Faith.


Why do Christians quote other biblical text to justify their position? And yet reject the stuff in both books. Especially St Paul as though he was God himself or had some special insight into the thoughts of God? My view is that he was entitled to his opinion but that doesn't make it true. You can say the same about Jesus, Muhammad, Joseph Smith, Abraham and Isaac and so we MUST try and think for ourselves what is likely to be true and what is definitely NOT true. Just study the text, don't read it, study it, think about when it was written and by whom and then you can be in a much better position to understand it.

The Gospel of John is a pretty wonderful piece of literature that was written towards the end of the first century by an educated Greek Christian who was actually anonymous like all the Gospel writers and yet Christians quote this book to justify the most outrageous propositions that Jesus was God and was with God from the beginning of time. The other three Gospels were also written many decades after Jesus died and so the stories were inflated to justify their opinion and none were eye witnesses to the life and death of Jesus. This is agreed by 99% of all biblical historians even the ones who claim to be Christians too. The Catholic Church conned believers for centuries that the bread and wine in the Eucharist was 'physically' changed into the body and blood of Jesus by the Priest waving his hand over them and why they insist it has to be an ordained Priest that does that where even the Mother Superior of any Convent cannot. Then science came along and PROVED nothing 'physically' changed in that process but did that stop them? No they then said it was changed but in a different way and Wiki will explain it better. Its a long time since I looked at it. But the Catholic Church depends almost entirely on still deceiving its congregations every day of the week and three times on Sunday.

To me this is deceitful, its wrong and its not true. Now they can treat that service like most of the other Christian Churches do and believe it as 'symbolic' of the words Jesus used at the last Supper. And they are entitled to do that but please don't try and con us all into believing it was true and that Jesus was God when not even himself or his disciples ever said that he was...I am an ex Christian who took the Eucharist for many decades without actually thinking about it then realised that millions of us were being lied to and conned by the clerical establishment of the Christian Church going back to the Gospels and St Paul then I am pleased I personally have freed my mind from it all and have no reason now to think the bible was not all made up in the same way.

Man have made God in his own image and not the other way around. The three faiths do worship the same God without a doubt but tribal loyalties dictate they are somehow not the same. It suits them all to be different. However I have come to the conclusion that Pauline Christianity especially is actually evil because it has enslaved millions of mostly ignorant innocent people into believing they are sinners and unworthy in the sight of God and unless they believe that he sent his only son to die for them, they will all rot in hell for all eternity no matter how good they lived their lives. That is evil, is wrong and immoral and the world of educated people everywhere should reject it all and if people of all faiths no matter what they are could just sit down and THINK what is it they believe and live their lives according to the golden rule and just get on with raising their families and leave all the myths and superstitions to the the dustbin of ignorance and paganism, the world would be a better place....imo anyhow...

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Re: Should Islam, Christianity and Judaism unite?

#48377

Postby RowdyReptile » April 25th, 2017, 3:39 am

beeswax wrote:
Why do Christians quote other biblical text to justify their position? And yet reject the stuff in both books. Especially St Paul as though he was God himself or had some special insight into the thoughts of God?


The general tradition as based on scripture is that God uses a person to speak for him on Earth. Believe it or don't believe it, but that seems to be the pattern of the text.

[quote="beeswax] My view is that he was entitled to his opinion but that doesn't make it true. You can say the same about Jesus, Muhammad, Joseph Smith, Abraham and Isaac and so we MUST try and think for ourselves what is likely to be true and what is definitely NOT true. Just study the text, don't read it, study it, think about when it was written and by whom and then you can be in a much better position to understand it.[/quote]

See this is the problem. Some people do think for themselves, and have different opinions from yourself. Your condescending attitude is rather tiresome.

As long as a person of faith isn't forcing his or her views on you, you shouldn't care. When they do, and when you see it from history, I will say it is a false doctrine from the adversary.

There are many lies and deceitful tactics, and they come from religion or secular ideas. When those ideas come via force and only force, then you know straight away they are wrong.

RR

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Re: Should Islam, Christianity and Judaism unite?

#48496

Postby beeswax » April 25th, 2017, 1:00 pm

RR, the thing is most believers don't or won't think for themselves and because if they did, they would reject a lot of religious text that clearly is not true and never was true and so how can we say these people are actually thinking correctly. Its not that me personally think that I am right and every believer wrong its wholly because the the independent evidence we have that evolution means God did NOT and I repeat this because all the the abrahamic faiths stand or fall on this premise that God did NOT create Adam and Eve just 6000 years ago and we have all evolved life forms and are in effect primates. So is that important to believe or not and really it doesn't matter a jot?

It makes one hell of a difference RR and you know it does as every other 'thinking' person knows it does, as every archbishop of Canterbury knows as every Pope knows, that that basic truth means there was no garden of eden and the most important thing of all. There could not then be any fall of man that needs atonement by Jesus or anyone else and that men created the whole story to enslave human kind in order to control us. I mean they all know this but they also know by publicly admitting this to the world, they will cease to be and cease their influence and control of us all and would be the end of them all. And why although they and you probably will agree with evolution they won't move beyond it for the reasons given. They are the condescending ones for trying to treat us all like morons and idiots. The truth should win over myth and superstition or don't you agree? There was no 'adversary' or devil, that is a creation of man to frighten us and blame on when we do things we shouldn't do. But the plain fact is your church like every other abrahamic institution condemns people for being homosexual. People for having sex before marriage, mutilating babies foreskins, condemning divorce and even working on the sabbath when stupid ignorant men lived in the desert for God sake who knew nothing about modern sanitation and power generation that has to be kept going 24/7 and yet try and get these believers to reject lots of their text? No way, its God's word see and so must be true and yet??? How many would stone you to death for the things mentioned above? So you and they are picking and choosing which text to believe the whole time and to me that is mendacious..

Can religious institutions carry on deceiving us all as they have for thousands of years? Time will tell! But if the bible was treated as fiction and allegorical then put that under its title and we can all go home! I ripped my bible up some years ago and put it straight in the trash where it deserved to go so that not one innocent mind can be corrupted by its contents.

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Re: Should Islam, Christianity and Judaism unite?

#48511

Postby beeswax » April 25th, 2017, 1:26 pm

BTW RR, have you forgot that Christianity was 'forced' on us after Constantine became a Christian and the word went out that anyone found with heretical biblical texts ie stuff they didn't agree with, could face the death penalty? And then all the infighting between the various Christian sects and then the reformation where Protestants and Catholics killed each other at will. And your own church that was born out of a deceitful man called Joseph Smith who thought having a dozen wives was no problem which has been conveniently dropped now? And made up the whole basis of your faith?

You may not think your Church does any harm but as its been pointed out many times now, its rules say that homosexual acts are sinful and need forgiveness by God which is like most Churches condemning a large part of society for being different. You say you don't agree with them on many things but then why be a member? You don't NEED to be a member do you, even because as you have said that your wife is a member and in that respect I can see why you would not want to be falling out about it as she was brought up as LDS and you weren't and in that I take my hat of to you that no tea and no whatisname is a very powerful weapon! ;)

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Re: Should Islam, Christianity and Judaism unite?

#48526

Postby GrandOiseau » April 25th, 2017, 1:58 pm

Unite in what way?

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Re: Should Islam, Christianity and Judaism unite?

#48593

Postby Clariman » April 25th, 2017, 5:20 pm

GrandOiseau wrote:Unite in what way?

I asked the original question so let me answer. I don't mean unite to become one church. What I mean is to each acknowledge that they have a shared heritage and believe in the SAME God, albeit in different ways and with some important differences in theology. In other words, to celebrate what they have in common, their shared belief and their shared heritage. The world would be a much more peaceful and happy place if they would.

As an agnostic (verging on atheist), it constantly amazes me how religions constantly try to convert each other, persecute each other and criticise the others for not being "true believers". You can read it in so many posts on this very thread. It is very sad, disrespectful and dangerous (IMO).

C

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Re: Should Islam, Christianity and Judaism unite?

#48635

Postby beeswax » April 25th, 2017, 7:19 pm

Clariman wrote:
GrandOiseau wrote:Unite in what way?

I asked the original question so let me answer. I don't mean unite to become one church. What I mean is to each acknowledge that they have a shared heritage and believe in the SAME God, albeit in different ways and with some important differences in theology. In other words, to celebrate what they have in common, their shared belief and their shared heritage. The world would be a much more peaceful and happy place if they would.

As an agnostic (verging on atheist), it constantly amazes me how religions constantly try to convert each other, persecute each other and criticise the others for not being "true believers". You can read it in so many posts on this very thread. It is very sad, disrespectful and dangerous (IMO).

C


Its difficult and why they haven't. Indeed I may be guilty now of being disrespectful because of the 'tone' of my contributions. I suppose I could 'try' and argue that children once believed in Santa and then were disappointed when they found out it wasn't true. They all get over it! I set out to increase my knowledge and my 'faith' but it went the other way! But I remain a Deist, probably more to do with my previous faith though. Another Santa Claus moment is always possible. Is it disrespectful to have that as a parallel and thus ask every other believer to take some time in considering their beliefs, their origins, their text and compare it to what we now know about the universe and evolution?

In many respects its a case of let live and allow anybody to believe in whatever God they want and in a free world, that is what we should do but....But! Its not Santa who dictates what church we belong to. What food we eat or what clothes or hats we wear. Whether confession is good for the soul or not. Its not Santa who condemns homosexuals or gives moral guidance according to words written in ancient times mostly by ignorant men by our standards today or even a couple of centuries ago. Thomas Paine wrote his book about an age of reason during the French Revolution and basically condemned all the abrahamic faiths for leading men and women astray for the very reason of power and control over us by those that promote that they have a special line of communication with God that no ordinary person has and why they must be obeyed and especially as they possessed the keys to the kingdom and all eternity. Woe betide anyone who thinks independently or as the Catholic Church puts it, to try and 'interpret' the text as only they can...

The age of reason should always counter myth, superstition and fear and sometimes being 'respectful' to them gives them the very legitimacy, power and control they demand. If people like me can be 'conned' into believing such things, then anyone can. But its mostly the result of indoctrination as children as very few adults find God by reading the bible, the Quran or going one day to any place of worship.

The abrahamic faiths have been going many many millennia through all times and all troubles and they are still around and so can't see them getting together, no matter how many 'interfaith' gathering they have and I have been to some of those services too and you know? People are no different really, its just the power that religion has over them that causes them to think and do things that harm others..

My new found faith is simple. Just try and do good, be kind to each other and try and love and respect everyone and look after our planet and everything it gives us and we must above all try and do that with the animal world too..They get a bad deal even though we have to rely on them for our food. Muslims should just stop their meaningless annual ritual that kills millions of them still and then say its just for the food for the less well of you know...Its barbaric the way they have enforced their pagan method of slaughter on them and us and we should have none of it...If they want to live in the 6th century and Christians want to live in the first then give up your mobile phones, your computers, TV's and modern power generation, sanitation and medical advances....It was men who designed and created such things and not their God(s).

So to answer the OP question?

Not a cat in hell's chance!

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Re: Should Islam, Christianity and Judaism unite?

#48664

Postby GrandOiseau » April 25th, 2017, 9:39 pm

Clariman wrote:
GrandOiseau wrote:Unite in what way?

I asked the original question so let me answer. I don't mean unite to become one church. What I mean is to each acknowledge that they have a shared heritage and believe in the SAME God, albeit in different ways and with some important differences in theology. In other words, to celebrate what they have in common, their shared belief and their shared heritage. The world would be a much more peaceful and happy place if they would.

As an agnostic (verging on atheist), it constantly amazes me how religions constantly try to convert each other, persecute each other and criticise the others for not being "true believers". You can read it in so many posts on this very thread. It is very sad, disrespectful and dangerous (IMO).

C
Not sure what this all means in practical terms.John Lennon wanted to give peace a chance 40 years ago but someone shot him. Societies become more peaceful the better the standard of living, the better the security, the less corruption there is, etc. So I think that is what we should work to.

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Re: Should Islam, Christianity and Judaism unite?

#48683

Postby Halicarnassus » April 25th, 2017, 11:21 pm

beeswax wrote:RR, the thing is most believers don't or won't think for themselves and because if they did, they would reject a lot of religious text that clearly is not true and never was true and so how can we say these people are actually thinking correctly. Its not that me personally think that I am right and every believer wrong its wholly because the the independent evidence we have that evolution means God did NOT and I repeat this because all the the abrahamic faiths stand or fall on this premise that God did NOT create Adam and Eve just 6000 years ago and we have all evolved life forms and are in effect primates. So is that important to believe or not and really it doesn't matter a jot?



This paragraph is an absurdity.

As a Catholic we have no issue with evolution whatsoever. It's a fact. But the above is a typical example of the ignorance of the people, the Dawkins luvvies, who have these crude misunderstandings of what exactly Christians believe.

And look at the arrogance of this sentence specifically....

beeswax wrote:RR, the thing is most believers don't or won't think for themselves and because if they did, they would reject a lot of religious text that clearly is not true and never was true and so how can we say these people are actually thinking correctly.



Oh, well let me see. Where is your Scientific data, your statistics to back this nonsense on stilts assertion up???????

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Re: Should Islam, Christianity and Judaism unite?

#48690

Postby RowdyReptile » April 26th, 2017, 12:35 am

beeswax wrote:BTW RR, have you forgot that Christianity was 'forced' on us after Constantine became a Christian and the word went out that anyone found with heretical biblical texts ie stuff they didn't agree with, could face the death penalty? And then all the infighting between the various Christian sects and then the reformation where Protestants and Catholics killed each other at will. And your own church that was born out of a deceitful man called Joseph Smith who thought having a dozen wives was no problem which has been conveniently dropped now? And made up the whole basis of your faith?


No, I haven't forgotten. I imagine that is one reason for the reformation, and then years and years later, as some would claim, a restoration. Regardless of any individuals beliefs, it is easy to see why some would think things had gone awry in the Christian church.

beeswax wrote:You may not think your Church does any harm but as its been pointed out many times now, its rules say that homosexual acts are sinful and need forgiveness by God which is like most Churches condemning a large part of society for being different. You say you don't agree with them on many things but then why be a member?


Yes, the doctrine says homosexual activity is a sin, but it also teaches that cheating on your wife is a sin. Abuse of spouse and children are sins, being dishonest with your fellow man is a sin. Heck, they don't even like coffee or tea. Btw, I never said I disagreed with them, but that I don't follow all the rules myself, so I tend to be less judgmental on others. The entire LDS theology on the concept of salvation, heaven and hell, and the like are quite different than the Roman church.

beeswax wrote:You don't NEED to be a member do you, even because as you have said that your wife is a member and in that respect I can see why you would not want to be falling out about it as she was brought up as LDS and you weren't and in that I take my hat of to you that no tea and no whatisname is a very powerful weapon! ;)


I did not become LDS simply because my wife was one, and I want to keep the peace or whatever. Now, it is true she is the reason her entire family converted in Argentina, and that is quite the tale frankly. She has her own issues with the Church, mainly its patriarchal nature. I have done the best I can to convince her that isn't the biggest issue, as, well, I am her husband, and I am not a "my way or the highway" guy. Over 30 years of marriage and four beautiful children speaks for itself I imagine.

In the end, she and I have thought about it, and here we are now. We are ok with where we are in a "spiritual" sense.

RR

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Re: Should Islam, Christianity and Judaism unite?

#48695

Postby RowdyReptile » April 26th, 2017, 12:54 am

Clariman wrote:
I asked the original question so let me answer. I don't mean unite to become one church. What I mean is to each acknowledge that they have a shared heritage and believe in the SAME God, albeit in different ways and with some important differences in theology. In other words, to celebrate what they have in common, their shared belief and their shared heritage. The world would be a much more peaceful and happy place if they would.

As an agnostic (verging on atheist), it constantly amazes me how religions constantly try to convert each other, persecute each other and criticise the others for not being "true believers". You can read it in so many posts on this very thread. It is very sad, disrespectful and dangerous (IMO).

C


You mean unite in that which binds us and forget about differences? Feed the hungry, take care of the poor, love on another type stuff?

Good luck with that! Good luck with that in the secular world as well.

RR

RowdyReptile
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Re: Should Islam, Christianity and Judaism unite?

#48697

Postby RowdyReptile » April 26th, 2017, 1:17 am

A brief musical interlude....

Ain't no angel gonna greet me.
It's just you and I my friend.
And my clothes don't fit me no more,
A thousand miles
Just to slip this skin.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYLr9FtYtME

RR

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Re: Should Islam, Christianity and Judaism unite?

#48698

Postby beeswax » April 26th, 2017, 1:23 am

Halicarnassus wrote:
beeswax wrote:RR, the thing is most believers don't or won't think for themselves and because if they did, they would reject a lot of religious text that clearly is not true and never was true and so how can we say these people are actually thinking correctly. Its not that me personally think that I am right and every believer wrong its wholly because the the independent evidence we have that evolution means God did NOT and I repeat this because all the the abrahamic faiths stand or fall on this premise that God did NOT create Adam and Eve just 6000 years ago and we have all evolved life forms and are in effect primates. So is that important to believe or not and really it doesn't matter a jot?



This paragraph is an absurdity.

As a Catholic we have no issue with evolution whatsoever. It's a fact. But the above is a typical example of the ignorance of the people, the Dawkins luvvies, who have these crude misunderstandings of what exactly Christians believe.

And look at the arrogance of this sentence specifically....

beeswax wrote:RR, the thing is most believers don't or won't think for themselves and because if they did, they would reject a lot of religious text that clearly is not true and never was true and so how can we say these people are actually thinking correctly.



Oh, well let me see. Where is your Scientific data, your statistics to back this nonsense on stilts assertion up???????


I know EXACTLY what Christians think, being I was one for over 50 years...And I know what Catholics think and do as I have been to their services, like I have been to many others. So you have no problem with evolution then? Good, we are making progress. Now IF you do, then you surely have to dismiss the creation of Adam and Eve by God as we are now, the conversation by God in the Garden of Eden and them disobeying God and therefore there was no fall and no sin original or otherwise that mankind needs saving from? No talking snake and no Satan. And NO need for Jesus to die for anyone's sin? That is just for starters...Scientific data proves evolution as you have agreed, as your church has agreed as it would be foolish to say otherwise when the 'scientific' evidence is so overwhelming. So was the Universe created in 6 days? Did all the foreign languages start after the Tower of Babel? Did ALL the animal species go on Noah's ark? Was there a great flood that covered the whole mankind and animal kingdom except Noah and his family and so wht aren't we all speaking the same language as Noah? When did Dinosaurs wander the earth? How old is the universe? How old is homo sapiens? The bible claims things that have absolutely been disproven scientifically and hope you come back and tell me where I'm going wrong? And that is before I start on the NT...

I am not a Dawkins luvvie as he is agnostic/atheist. I am a Deist IF you know what that means, Wiki will explain. I don't follow Dawkins or have read anything he has written. So what is absurd or arrogant what I wrote?

Perhaps you can explain why Christians think that their God condemned the whole human race for the sin if that is what you call what Adam did for all time well at least a few thousand years until God decided to sent his son down to save us all? Can you see how 'absurd' that all is....Humans forgive unconditionally and yet God doesn't?

Maybe you can show us the evidence you have?


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