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What’s wrong with the Perennial Philosophy?

Religion and Philosophy
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we are introducing this on a trial basis and that respect for other's views is important e.g. phrases like "your imaginary friend" or "you will go to hell" are not appropriate
hamzahf
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What’s wrong with the Perennial Philosophy?

#20349

Postby hamzahf » January 5th, 2017, 2:05 pm

Rather than distract other threads, I thought I would pick up the idea about the truth or validity of other religious expressions here.

http://www.philosophyforlife.org/explor ... pluralism/

I was surprised to see mention of Sam Harris in the article (I am not a big fan), so learned something new and may need to reappraise my opinion of him.

http://www.philosophyforlife.org/a-revi ... -religion/

But back to the first link. I am rather taken with the notion of a unifying aspect of religion (many paths up the mountain), but note some of the criticisms addressed in the article about hierarchies of faith (esoteric expressions of faith are favoured). Eastern religions rank higher on such views.

Regards
Hamzah

hamzahf
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Re: What’s wrong with the Perennial Philosophy?

#20373

Postby hamzahf » January 5th, 2017, 2:45 pm

The comments to the first article are worth reading. Many point out that whilst one would assume perennialist thinking would negate specific religious practice within a tradition, it is actually the case that deep involvement in a tradition of choice was recommended. Thus, Sufi expressions of Islam were favoured by many of the principle thinkers as much as Eastern traditions and the mysticism of the Orthodox Christian Church.

Regards
Hamzah

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Re: What’s wrong with the Perennial Philosophy?

#20435

Postby redsturgeon » January 5th, 2017, 4:53 pm

Fascinating article Hamzah, thank you for posting it.

I'd agree with much of it.

John

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Re: What’s wrong with the Perennial Philosophy?

#20437

Postby beeswax » January 5th, 2017, 5:03 pm

Hamzah, tough reading there and way over my head but also found myself nodding with some of it that reflects my own experience and interesting that it talks freely about the 'spiritual dimension' that I have been alluding to for some time without knowing what anyone was saying or thinking except maybe the 'holy spirit' that Jesus mentioned. In many ways it reflects on the 'personal' experience that I have mentioned in the past.

Sam Harris who I had the pleasure of watching many times on youtube presentations alongside Hitchens was interesting but without the natural charisma and vocabulary talent of Hitchens who nobody yet as replaced. SH said this in his book..

"Spiritual experiences, he says, tell us ‘empirical facts’ about human consciousness. Harris thinks he has come across two such facts. Firstly, an experience on MDMA in his twenties gave him a sense of ‘boundless love’ for all beings"

I too have had that experience and it was mind blowing but I wasn't on any kind of drug. I often think the Creator has that within his DNA so to speak.

I'm pleased you are seeking other paths in your search for the truth.

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Re: What’s wrong with the Perennial Philosophy?

#20476

Postby redsturgeon » January 5th, 2017, 6:31 pm

Firstly, an experience on MDMA in his twenties gave him a sense of ‘boundless love’ for all beings"


I agree that mind altering chemicals can have a profound effect on opening one's mind to possibilities previously not considered.

My own experiences many years ago with LSD had a similar effect on my consciousness. While not pretending any extra access to universal truth, it certainly gave me a new perspective on the mind and my perception of the world around me.

John

Itsallaguess
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Re: What’s wrong with the Perennial Philosophy?

#20515

Postby Itsallaguess » January 5th, 2017, 8:22 pm

hamzahf wrote:
I am rather taken with the notion of a unifying aspect of religion (many paths up the mountain), but note some of the criticisms addressed in the article about hierarchies of faith (esoteric expressions of faith are favoured). Eastern religions rank higher on such views.

Regards
Hamzah


The Perennial Philosophy seems like a neat way to get around the 'every religion cannot be right' angle to me.

There always seems to be an awful lot of killing going on as everyone 'heads up the same mountain on their slightly different paths....'

As a non-believer, I've always agreed with Stephen F Roberts, when he said the following regarding discussing atheism with a 'believer' -

“I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one less god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”

If there's a better example of 'Occams Razor', then I've yet to see it....

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

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Re: What’s wrong with the Perennial Philosophy?

#20540

Postby beeswax » January 5th, 2017, 9:04 pm

redsturgeon wrote:
Firstly, an experience on MDMA in his twenties gave him a sense of ‘boundless love’ for all beings"


I agree that mind altering chemicals can have a profound effect on opening one's mind to possibilities previously not considered.

My own experiences many years ago with LSD had a similar effect on my consciousness. While not pretending any extra access to universal truth, it certainly gave me a new perspective on the mind and my perception of the world around me.

John


John as music is my passion and my religion, you should like this song that is one of my favourites..The great late Merle Haggard..and put your earphones on for a better experience..;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4AgZST_TG8

hamzahf
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Re: What’s wrong with the Perennial Philosophy?

#20550

Postby hamzahf » January 5th, 2017, 9:29 pm

beeswax wrote:Sam Harris who I had the pleasure of watching many times on youtube presentations alongside Hitchens was interesting but without the natural charisma and vocabulary talent of Hitchens who nobody yet as replaced.


To go off at a slight tangent, on the same site linked to above I found this an interesting discussion on the transcendentalist views of three of the 'Four Horsemen of New Atheism'.

http://www.philosophyforlife.org/the-ne ... entalists/

Quotes from Harris, Hitchens and then Dawkins to give a flavour of what the article discusses.

[Harris] "The history of human spirituality is the history of our attempts to explore and modify the deliverances of consciousness through methods like fasting, chanting, sensory deprivation, prayer, meditation, and the use of psychotropic plants. [Such practices] are some of our only means of determining to what extent the human condition can be deliberately transformed."

[Hitchens] "I’m a materialist…yet there is something beyond the material, or not entirely consistent with it, what you could call the Numinous, the Transcendent, or at its best the Ecstatic. I wouldn’t trust anyone in this hall who didn’t know what I was talking about. It’s in certain music, landscape, certain creative work, without this we really would merely be primates. It’s important to appreciate the finesse of that, and religion has done a very good job of enshrining it in music and architecture."

[Dawkins] "I wonder whether the ability to see analogies, the ability to express meaning in terms of symbolic resemblances to other things, may have been the crucial software advance that propelled human brain evolution over the threshold….However it began…we humans, uniquely among animalkind, have the poet’s gift of metaphor, of noticing when things are like other things and using the relation as a fulcrum for our thoughts and feelings…Perhaps [the imagination] was the step from constrained virtual reality, where the brain simulates a model of what the sense organs are telling it, to unconstrained virtual reality, in which the brain simulates things that are not actually there at the time…We can take the virtual reality software in our heads and emancipate it from the tyranny of simulating only utilitarian reality. We can imagine worlds that might be, as well as those that are."

Regards
Hamzah

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Re: What’s wrong with the Perennial Philosophy?

#20558

Postby Stonge » January 5th, 2017, 10:28 pm

I once inhaled a pretty full dose of ether, with the determination to put on record, at the earliest moment of regaining consciousness, the thought I should find uppermost in my mind. The mighty music of the triumphal march into nothingness reverberated through my brain, and filled me with a sense of infinite possibilities, which made me an archangel for the moment. The veil of eternity was lifted. The one great truth which underlies all human experience, and is the key to all the mysteries that philosophy has sought in vain to solve, flashed upon me in a sudden revelation. Henceforth all was clear: a few words had lifted my intelligence to the level of the knowledge of the cherubim. As my natural condition returned, I remembered my resolution; and, staggering to my desk, I wrote, in ill-shaped, straggling characters, the all-embracing truth still glimmering in my consciousness. The words were these (children may smile; the wise will ponder): “A strong smell of turpentine prevails throughout."


http://quoteinvestigator.com/2012/03/31 ... -prevails/

http://scienceblogs.com/aardvarchaeolog ... pentine-p/

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Re: What’s wrong with the Perennial Philosophy?

#20604

Postby Clariman » January 6th, 2017, 8:41 am

Hamzahf
Thanks for creating this topic. It has been the most interesting one so far on this board.
Clariman

hamzahf
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Re: What’s wrong with the Perennial Philosophy?

#20619

Postby hamzahf » January 6th, 2017, 9:51 am

Itsallaguess wrote:As a non-believer, I've always agreed with Stephen F Roberts, when he said the following regarding discussing atheism with a 'believer' -

“I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one less god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”


I wonder how that position works in a discussion with a Buddhist?

I have never been able to find a written quote (I heard him say it on TV), but at a scientific conference the Dalai Lama said to the effect, 'whatever you say, the supernatural does exist'. I appreciate Buddhist beliefs are rather broad (from highly esoteric to mundane); I was interested on a recent trip to China to see a temple dedicated to the Buddha of Wealth and another to the Buddha of Happiness further up the valley (with associated jolly statues).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qianshan_National_Park

Nevertheless, perhaps Buddhism and Taoism are where Atheist/Religionist dialogue becomes the most interesting as the notion of 'one less God' becomes redundant and the discussion turns to perceptions of reality and the natural (and supernatural) worlds.

Regards
Hamzah


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