Plainsong

[stewamax]

I am not especially musical but I like among other things traditional (pre-1800) Anglican / RC church music. All very pleasant.

However, when I hear plainsong it stirs up drifting inchoate memories of things a long long time ago.

Now plainsong is not what one would normally hear in a cathedral for example because, unless the boys and girls are on holiday and the male adult lay clerks alone are singing, music is almost all polyphony (multipart). I don’t watch many old films. And my childhood was neither religious nor musical.

I find the ideas of genetic (racial) memory or reincarnation difficult to accept. But from where are these ‘memories’ that are being resurrected coming from?

[UncleEbenezer]

I am not especially musical but I like among other things traditional (pre-1800) Anglican / RC church music. All very pleasant.

Hmm, I didn't realise much Anglican church music existed before about 1800. The Catholics had all the music to speak of until Bach wrested the crown for the Lutherans, but none of that was happening in Blighty. Must of the Anglican tradition - including all those hymns - originate in the 19th century.

However, when I hear plainsong it stirs up drifting inchoate memories of things a long long time ago.

That'll be cultural association. Anything from a documentary to a film that seeks to evoke the early church, or mediæval Europe more generally, or sometimes a completely non-specific "long ago", will give you a fragment of plainchant. You don't have to be exposed to much to develop a Proustian association.

You can follow similar strands very specifically. Luther was no musician, and his tunes are extraordinarily dreary. Too dreary to feature evocatively in our culture. But to someone brought up in a Lutheran tradition he evidently does evoke something, so some of the great German composers were able to use that and make wonderful music from Luther's themes. As in Mendelssohn's Reformation symphony, or Wagner's Parsifal.

[gryffron]

That'll be cultural association. Anything from a documentary to a film

Where I used to live there was an ice cream van that played Lili Marlene. It always made me think there was a panzer division coming down the road.

[stewamax]

Where I used to live there was an ice cream van that played Lili Marlene. It always made me think there was a panzer division coming down the road.

Hmm... The Third Man also perhaps

[Eboli]

The Catholics had all the music to speak of until Bach wrested the crown for the Lutherans, but none of that was happening in Blighty.

Well Handel, an almost exact contemporary of Bach certainly wrote many sacred cantatas and oratorios. And dear Henry Purcell was writing sacred music in the 17th century, some very close to painsong, though perhaps it is our loss he died at the early age of 36.

Luther was no musician, and his tunes are extraordinarily dreary. Too dreary to feature evocatively in our culture.

I would need to look up the exact number but certainly most of Bach's sacred cantatas have movements based upon Luther's chorales

However, I suspect this has nothing to do with plainsong which is almost always monophonic and probably deliberately designed to induce relaxation and meditation.

[UncleEbenezer]

The Catholics had all the music to speak of until Bach wrested the crown for the Lutherans, but none of that was happening in Blighty.

Well Handel, an almost exact contemporary of Bach certainly wrote many sacred cantatas and oratorios. And dear Henry Purcell was writing sacred music in the 17th century, some very close to painsong, though perhaps it is our loss he died at the early age of 36.

OK, what I wrote was a simplification. The Catholic tradition of glorious music starts with Palestrina in the mid-16th century, and they have essentially a monopoly until the Baroque era. For much of that time, anything remotely interesting was explicitly forbidden in the Church of England. There were quite a few early English composers writing church music, but they were Catholics (and in any case, none of them could hold a candle to Palestrina and his successors in Italy).

Just look at the (in)famous story of Allegri's Miserere (typical of the era in mixing plainchant with polyphony). To keep such exclusivity on that for 130 years implies a fearsome monopoly.

Bach wasn't the first Lutheran to write church music, but in my firm opinion he was the first to top two centuries of Catholic tradition. Earlier composers such as Bach's early mentor and role model Buxtehude wrote some worthwhile music, but nowhere near so inspirational. As for Purcell in England, his reputation is well-deserved, but it's rooted in secular music.

Luther was no musician, and his tunes are extraordinarily dreary. Too dreary to feature evocatively in our culture.

I would need to look up the exact number but certainly most of Bach's sacred cantatas have movements based upon Luther's chorales

Hmmm? Are you confusing Bach's chorales (which are wonderful music) with Luther's tunes? The only cantata I'm aware of actually drawing on Luther himself is Ein feste Burg is unser Gott.

However, I suspect this has nothing to do with plainsong which is almost always monophonic and probably deliberately designed to induce relaxation and meditation.

Church music was long dictated by what the church would permit: anything too interesting was seen as idolatrous and at the worst times could get you a death penalty. We have the reformation to thank for allowing in a polyphonic tradition, the glory of which was the Catholic church's fightback against Lutheran austerity. But the polyphonic tradition of that time was also constrained by very rigid rules, that only really loosened much with the coming of the Baroque.

Secular early music is of course a different kettle of fish. Madrigals enjoyed themselves most profanely and disrespectfully even as music for church was kept in a severe straightjacket.

[Clitheroekid]

And dear Henry Purcell was writing sacred music in the 17th century, some very close to painsong

Is this a new term of musical criticism?

[scrumpyjack]

I went to a Cathedral School where we had a service in the cathedral each morning before school. The headmaster and staff would walk in all their finery pompously up the aisle whilst the organ played solemn music, sometimes played by a sixth former.

One day as they were walking up in their gowns and mortar boards, we boys suddenly realised what the 6th former was playing. He was slowly and very convincingly playing a pop song of the day 'The House of the Rising Sun' by the Animals.

It was hilarious and none of the staff realised they were marching to a pop song played very slowly, still less that it was a song about a brothel in New Orleans!

[UncleEbenezer]

I went to a Cathedral School where we had a service in the cathedral each morning before school. The headmaster and staff would walk in all their finery pompously up the aisle whilst the organ played solemn music, sometimes played by a sixth former.

One day as they were walking up in their gowns and mortar boards, we boys suddenly realised what the 6th former was playing. He was slowly and very convincingly playing a pop song of the day 'The House of the Rising Sun' by the Animals.

It was hilarious and none of the staff realised they were marching to a pop song played very slowly, still less that it was a song about a brothel in New Orleans!

The music teacher who first twisted my arm into singing (i.e. joining his choir) had an anecdote of when he was playing for a wedding. Bride was delayed, so he had unplanned time to fill. So he played "Turn back, o man".

BTW, I was reluctant at first to join his choir, but by the time I left school I was thoroughly enjoying it, and it's been an important part of my life ever since.

[stewamax]

Further to UncleEbenezer's reply, I once went to a graduation ceremony (not mine..) at a seaside university.
In the half hour or so before things started, an organist played a series of 'serious' works that were listed in the ceremony handout.
Then he suddenly launched into "Oh I do like to be beside the seaside..." so I checked the handout... where it was listed solemnly as "Amo esse juxta mare"