Coronavirus Health - Health and Wellbeing

[Mike4]

Despite the Lancet study problems this is the definitive study from Oxford

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... ial-chiefs

It says it is not effective in Covid 19.

John

Yes it's rather disappointing isn't it? Especially as this came out about the same time as The Lancet study had to be withdrawn.

Rather drew the sting from the egg on the face of The Lancet for publishing the faked-data meta study showing much the same thing, if I may mix my metaphors.

Curious that it contradicts so many empirical reports though, even so. The placebo effect is so powerful.

[look]

vitamin k2 to combat the coronavirus

https://www.theguardian.com/science/202 ... y-suggests

otherwise, the study from Oxford seems biased.

[Itsallaguess]

Dexamethasone is first life-saving coronavirus drug -

A cheap and widely available drug called dexamethasone can help save the lives of patients who are seriously ill with coronavirus.

UK experts say the low-dose steroid treatment is a major breakthrough in the fight against the deadly virus.

It cut the risk of death by a third for patients on ventilators. For those on oxygen, it cut deaths by a fifth.

The drug is part of the world's biggest trial testing existing treatments to see if they also work for coronavirus.

Researchers estimate that if the drug had been available in the UK from the start of the coronavirus pandemic up to 5,000 lives could have been saved. Because it is cheap, it could also be of huge benefit in poor countries struggling with high numbers of Covid-19 patients.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53061281

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[redsturgeon]

Dexamethasone is first life-saving coronavirus drug -

A cheap and widely available drug called dexamethasone can help save the lives of patients who are seriously ill with coronavirus.

UK experts say the low-dose steroid treatment is a major breakthrough in the fight against the deadly virus.

It cut the risk of death by a third for patients on ventilators. For those on oxygen, it cut deaths by a fifth.

The drug is part of the world's biggest trial testing existing treatments to see if they also work for coronavirus.

Researchers estimate that if the drug had been available in the UK from the start of the coronavirus pandemic up to 5,000 lives could have been saved. Because it is cheap, it could also be of huge benefit in poor countries struggling with high numbers of Covid-19 patients.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53061281

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

This is the first bit of genuine good news on the medicine front for Covid 19

John

[servodude]

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/healt ... 04f04f248a

This is the latest I've seen of these "I've had it twice" stories coming out
- is this just bad luck?
- or are these folk that fought it off with T-cells and didn't retain the blueprint for future battles?

Is herd immunity an immoral assumption to justify a lack of strategy?

-sd

[Mike4]

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/us-woman-devastated-after-catching-coronavirus-twice/news-story/1e95df7785ce3fee86b88504f04f248a

- or are these folk that fought it off with T-cells and didn't retain the blueprint for future battles?

-sd

Seems unlikely given she has antibodies.

From the article:

"After recovering from coronavirus in February Ms McKee told NBC 5 antibodies showed up in her system and she donated blood to researchers, feeling certain her ordeal was over."

More likely I'd suggest, is the astonishing level of sensitivity of the antigen test which is capable of detecting dead fragments of the old virus, or so I keep hearing put forward as an explanation for these 'repeat infections'. If this hypothesis is correct, she doesn't have COVID-19 this time around, but something else. The "cough and high blood pressure" she is reporting is not fully consistent with COVID-19 anyway.

[servodude]

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/us-woman-devastated-after-catching-coronavirus-twice/news-story/1e95df7785ce3fee86b88504f04f248a

- or are these folk that fought it off with T-cells and didn't retain the blueprint for future battles?

-sd

Seems unlikely given she has antibodies.

From the article:

"After recovering from coronavirus in February Ms McKee told NBC 5 antibodies showed up in her system and she donated blood to researchers, feeling certain her ordeal was over."

More likely I'd suggest, is the astonishing level of sensitivity of the antigen test which is capable of detecting dead fragments of the old virus, or so I keep hearing put forward as an explanation for these 'repeat infections'. If this hypothesis is correct, she doesn't have COVID-19 this time around, but something else. The "cough and high blood pressure" she is reporting is not fully consistent with COVID-19 anyway.

Ok, that makes sense if the "test" was for antibodies, they would be present in her system having fought it off previously and she's got something-else... so the story results from the fact that the current test wasn't for antigens or presence of virus DNA, but for antibodies; something we all hope it would test positive for for a good while after having recovered?

My mistake was to read it as if the test suggested she "had" COVID; or perhaps you can "have" it while your antibodies are doing their job?

-sd

[Mike4]

Ok, that makes sense if the "test" was for antibodies, they would be present in her system having fought it off previously and she's got something-else... so the story results from the fact that the current test wasn't for antigens or presence of virus DNA, but for antibodies; something we all hope it would test positive for for a good while after having recovered?

My mistake was to read it as if the test suggested she "had" COVID; or perhaps you can "have" it while your antibodies are doing their job?

-sd

I'd say she MUST have had an antibody test (or more likely several) for her to have been recruited onto a convalescent plasma research project, unless she has simply got that wrong. Even if she has it wrong and all that happened was she confuse antigen for antibody testing, that same effect could be happening. There are lots of cases where people test antigen-positive long after recovery and are not ill.

I don't record references for a hundreds of snippets of interesting info like this I encounter and store away in my memory. Perhaps I should. Then I'd be able to cite a source for this factoid.

[sg31]

Dexamethasone is first life-saving coronavirus drug -

A cheap and widely available drug called dexamethasone can help save the lives of patients who are seriously ill with coronavirus.

UK experts say the low-dose steroid treatment is a major breakthrough in the fight against the deadly virus.

It cut the risk of death by a third for patients on ventilators. For those on oxygen, it cut deaths by a fifth.

The drug is part of the world's biggest trial testing existing treatments to see if they also work for coronavirus.

Researchers estimate that if the drug had been available in the UK from the start of the coronavirus pandemic up to 5,000 lives could have been saved. Because it is cheap, it could also be of huge benefit in poor countries struggling with high numbers of Covid-19 patients.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53061281

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

This is the first bit of genuine good news on the medicine front for Covid 19

John

Hopefully this works out but the study hasn't been peer reviewed. Steriods do tend to suppress the immune system which isn't something to be desired.

The NHS and WHO have taken positive action following the report so it may be genuinely good new. I'm cautious because there was the initial hope that Hydroxychloriquine would be a good therapeutic which turned out to be ineffective.

It's still early days and studies are released to the press before being reviewed properly. Not just this one, most of them.

[servodude]

Steriods do tend to suppress the immune system which isn't something to be desired

In this case it's exactly what they are hoping for; it addresses that aspect of late stage COVID (the cytokine storm) rather than the virus.

-sd

[Mike4]

Steriods do tend to suppress the immune system which isn't something to be desired

In this case it's exactly what they are hoping for; it addresses that aspect of late stage COVID (the cytokine storm) rather than the virus.

-sd

This is my understanding too. It's hard to imagine how inhibiting the cytokine storm could happen without suppressing the 'immune system'!

The study not being peer reviewed made my ears prick up though when I heard it mentioned on R4 yesterday. Implementing it across the NHS without peer review seems like jumping the gun to me and very odd given the determination of govt to gold plate all other research before accepting it.

Beyond odd, I find this, in fact. Ditching normal research standards, checks and balances which they were so determined not to do (correctly as it turned out) with HXQ.

[servodude]

Beyond odd, I find this, in fact. Ditching normal research standards, checks and balances which they were so determined not to do (correctly as it turned out) with HXQ.

On balance I think the risks with this are much lower.
I think the difference is in that this is addressing an observable symptom in a way that the drug is proven to do; rather than trying to attack the disease itself. Similar to how they didn't need to peer review the delivery of oxygen for COVID, before they started rolling it out.

-sd

[redsturgeon]

Beyond odd, I find this, in fact. Ditching normal research standards, checks and balances which they were so determined not to do (correctly as it turned out) with HXQ.

On balance I think the risks with this are much lower.
I think the difference is in that this is addressing an observable symptom in a way that the drug is proven to do; rather than trying to attack the disease itself. Similar to how they didn't need to peer review the delivery of oxygen for COVID, before they started rolling it out.

-sd

Yes indeed. This is a well tried and tested drug that has been used for many years so the safety profile is not in question. Evidence in clinical use over many thousands of cases has shown its worth so it would be wrong to prevent its more general use. This is the case with all new medicine when trialed, if the benefits are clear then they are fast tracked...it is the humane thing to do.

The evidence for the benefits of HXQ was much more anecdotal whereas this has been a gold plated clinical trial in a major UK centre.

I would guess that the clinical use of dexamethazone around the world has been quite widespread anyway, clinicians would know this is the right drug to use.

John

[tjh290633]

I think that there are many clinical studies which are either abandoned, because of deleterious side effects, or brought to a close because the benefits are so obvious that it is worth making the treatment more widely available.

In such cases I don't think that peer review is appropriate but, had there been one, would Thalidomide have been used?

TJH

[look]

the press is silent about the BCG vacine.

[dealtn]

the press is silent about the BCG vacine.

How do you mean, and what is the relevance to Covid-19 here please?

[PinkDalek]

the press is silent about the BCG vacine.

Whose Press are ‘silent’?

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/coul ... us-vaccine

[johnhemming]

More generally there are anecdotal reports from Italy of the virus being less potent now
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/health/ ... 75366.html

Personally I think this arises from the viral load being lesser in the warmer weather.

[look]

the press is silent about the BCG vacine.

How do you mean, and what is the relevance to Covid-19 here please?

Some guys think that people with bcg vacine are more resistent to the coronavirus.
And they have reasons to think so.

[PinkDalek]

the press is silent about the BCG vacine.

How do you mean, and what is the relevance to Covid-19 here please?

Some guys think that people with bcg vacine are more resistent to the coronavirus.
And they have reasons to think so.

Has your position now changed on Chloroquine and Hydroxychloroquine?