The Lemon Fool

I knew that wood-burning stoves create particle pollution, but never realised the scale of it

Fires used by just 8% of population but cause triple the particle pollution of traffic, data shows

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... tion-fires

--kiloran (not a wood burner)

kiloran wrote:I knew that wood-burning stoves create particle pollution, but never realised the scale of it

Fires used by just 8% of population but cause triple the particle pollution of traffic, data shows

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... tion-fires

--kiloran (not a wood burner)

I think a major factor behind the growth of wood burning not mentioned in the article is the marketing of modern stoves as more efficient than older devices and open fires. People feel like they are doing less damage in terms of CO2 production than previously and thus feel quite good about using a stove. Certainly was a big factor in our choice to use one in the rented properties we've occupied which were already fitted with them. It didn't occur to me that the levels of pollution produced were bad enough to negate the advantages, certainly there were few voices pushing that angle.


GS (wood burner, currently open fireplace, previously stoves)

I have a big woodburning stove and when the weather is as it has been for the last six weeks I have needed it. I use kiln dried logs which are supposed to burn more cleanly in every sense. As well as hopefully less pollution, they also do less harm to the chimney, but they are expensive. Currently I guess it is cheaper to use oil more, but of course there was time when, with the oil price going through the roof, it was the other way round.

However they are dirty or at least dusty to burn as I note only too well and what it is doing to my lungs.......

Dod

I was wondering if pellet burners might be better... yes but: https://woodsmokepollution.org/pellet-stoves.html

GrahamPlatt wrote:I was wondering if pellet burners might be better... yes but: https://woodsmokepollution.org/pellet-stoves.html

That article is not very encouraging is it? My answer would be to upgrade the insulation I guess. Might be interesting to get someone to take a look. Who would do that sort of thing?

Dod

I wonder how many PM2.5 particles are made when they cut down remote US forests, truck them to the nearest railway station, transport them to a port, ship them to the UK then burn them to provide 5-10% of the UKs "green" energy?

I either felled my own trees from our ground or bought felled lengths of birch from my neighbour and then cut and split it for our holiday house in Sweden, wood burning is the norm (we have an open fire) and every rural property burns logs. As we are only there limited time 2 cubic meters does a year but spotting the piles in houses as we drive past they must be cutting nearer 20- 30 cubic meters per house per year, some of the wood piles are bigger that a static home. Never noticed anything in the air, in fact the air seemed very clean compared with city living.

I read this article and it got me thinking.

We bought our house in 2005 and it had a small open fire. We put some temporary boarding on it because we had young children. The whole fireplace wasn't great aesthetically so we had it redone and a log burner installed. We use it a dozen times on average in the winter I would say - using very well seasoned logs - mostly stuff cut down in our own or neighbours garden.

If I'd known what I am reading there we may have rebuilt the fireplace without anything. That wouldn't make sense now, it all still looks very new. Could of course just not use it but my feeling at the moment is that our use isn't too bad/extensive. Although I still have a tad of guilt.

It's all a bit of a shame in some ways as a good fire is nice and kind of feels like it shouldn't be a bad thing.

Any chance the science is challengeable I wonder...?

We have two woodburners, Clearview 500.
They are both in use all winter as a necessary evening supplement to our storage heaters.

Out here in the sticks, so to speak, the particulates no doubt disperse, but I am inclined to think that they should not be allowed in areas where pollution is already high, such as city LEZs where they are in any event unnecessary due to the availability of mains gas and on the whole are a 'lifestyle' frippery for people who have central heating.

V8

88V8 the article does say "Wood burners also triple the level of harmful pollution particles inside homes" so not good for the occupants.

Ours is purely lifestyle frippery no doubt although we are not in a particularly built up area.

GrandOiseau wrote:88V8 the article does say "Wood burners also triple the level of harmful pollution particles inside homes" so not good for the occupants.

Ours is purely lifestyle frippery no doubt although we are not in a particularly built up area.

I am happy with making lifestyle choices that are potentially more harmful than others. It's part and parcel of enjoying life, and risk taking generally.

I drink wine not water, eat generally healthily but no doubt some will point out my non-vegetarian diet might be sub-optimal. Others will enjoy bikes on the road instead of the relative safety of cars. Burning wood on open fires might bring greater pleasure than a radiator.

Mental health and wellbeing are just as important factors in decisions made by individuals, particularly when they involve only small risks of physical harm.

Dod101 wrote:I have a big woodburning stove and when the weather is as it has been for the last six weeks I have needed it. I use kiln dried logs which are supposed to burn more cleanly in every sense. As well as hopefully less pollution, they also do less harm to the chimney, but they are expensive. Currently I guess it is cheaper to use oil more, but of course there was time when, with the oil price going through the roof, it was the other way round.

However they are dirty or at least dusty to burn as I note only too well and what it is doing to my lungs.......

Dod

I imagine you with a huge stone fireplace, roaring log fire, in that Scottish castle of yours, complete with neo gothic windows.

No?

Interesting, as a year ago I moved into a small village in Sussex. We have - I believe quite fresh air - but occationally we have the whole atmosphere reeking with something I can only call "smokey". I thought incineration, farmers burning stuff, local small firms etc etc. but none of these seemed active at the time of smelling it. I've come to the conclusion that there may be someone upwind of me with a woodburning stove. Much as I love them myself (my son has one in Devon) if I'm right, one stove can spoil clear air for many people.

Arb.

Arborbridge wrote:I've come to the conclusion that there may be someone upwind of me with a woodburning stove. Much as I love them myself (my son has one in Devon) if I'm right, one stove can spoil clear air for many people.

Arb.

I'm sure that's right. I burn a lot of logs, it's our main source of heat but I'm very careful to season and dry our fuel. In fact I've just about finished stacking the logs I bought last spring to dry out over the warmer and hopefully drier months. One of my neighbours buys newly felled logs and then covers them with a tarpaulin. You can't dry logs like that, they just stay damp and go mouldy. The worst smells seem to come from people who burn damp logs and coal together. That really is bad.

RC

Arborbridge wrote:

Dod101 wrote:I have a big woodburning stove and when the weather is as it has been for the last six weeks I have needed it. I use kiln dried logs which are supposed to burn more cleanly in every sense. As well as hopefully less pollution, they also do less harm to the chimney, but they are expensive. Currently I guess it is cheaper to use oil more, but of course there was time when, with the oil price going through the roof, it was the other way round.

However they are dirty or at least dusty to burn as I note only too well and what it is doing to my lungs.......

Dod

I imagine you with a huge stone fireplace, roaring log fire, in that Scottish castle of yours, complete with neo gothic windows.

No?

Sadly no, but I do have quite a big fireplace! My place is a single storey biggish extension to a 19th century cottage which was originally a croft. It is rather open plan with a big central dining hall and takes a lot of heating. For the last few weeks of very cold weather we had very still air and the smell of woodburners I will admit.

Dod

Dod101 wrote:

Arborbridge wrote:

Dod101 wrote:I have a big woodburning stove and when the weather is as it has been for the last six weeks I have needed it. I use kiln dried logs which are supposed to burn more cleanly in every sense. As well as hopefully less pollution, they also do less harm to the chimney, but they are expensive. Currently I guess it is cheaper to use oil more, but of course there was time when, with the oil price going through the roof, it was the other way round.

However they are dirty or at least dusty to burn as I note only too well and what it is doing to my lungs.......

Dod

I imagine you with a huge stone fireplace, roaring log fire, in that Scottish castle of yours, complete with neo gothic windows.

No?

Sadly no, but I do have quite a big fireplace! My place is a single storey biggish extension to a 19th century cottage which was originally a croft. It is rather open plan with a big central dining hall and takes a lot of heating. For the last few weeks of very cold weather we had very still air and the smell of woodburners I will admit.

Dod

Well, you still have a mini-baronial dining hall, just not with the neo gothic windows.

Arborbridge wrote:

Dod101 wrote:

Arborbridge wrote:
I imagine you with a huge stone fireplace, roaring log fire, in that Scottish castle of yours, complete with neo gothic windows.

No?

Sadly no, but I do have quite a big fireplace! My place is a single storey biggish extension to a 19th century cottage which was originally a croft. It is rather open plan with a big central dining hall and takes a lot of heating. For the last few weeks of very cold weather we had very still air and the smell of woodburners I will admit.

Dod

Well, you still have a mini-baronial dining hall, just not with the neo gothic windows.

Do you write copy for estate agents?

servodude wrote:

Arborbridge wrote:

Dod101 wrote:
Sadly no, but I do have quite a big fireplace! My place is a single storey biggish extension to a 19th century cottage which was originally a croft. It is rather open plan with a big central dining hall and takes a lot of heating. For the last few weeks of very cold weather we had very still air and the smell of woodburners I will admit.

Dod

Well, you still have a mini-baronial dining hall, just not with the neo gothic windows.

Do you write copy for estate agents?

Not, but I've read plenty of them!

servodude wrote:

Arborbridge wrote:

Dod101 wrote:
Sadly no, but I do have quite a big fireplace! My place is a single storey biggish extension to a 19th century cottage which was originally a croft. It is rather open plan with a big central dining hall and takes a lot of heating. For the last few weeks of very cold weather we had very still air and the smell of woodburners I will admit.

Dod

Well, you still have a mini-baronial dining hall, just not with the neo gothic windows.

Do you write copy for estate agents?

Puts me in mind of back in the day when I had the bathroom shop, we had a posh bloke in looking at our ranges of bathroom fitted furniture which we made ourselves. One of the options was a tall shelf unit in an arched frame which we called a "Norman arch". Posh bloke confidently assured us it was not a Norman arch, it wasn't the right shape to be a Norman arch, but a gothic arch or something. He rather imperiously pulled rank, explaining he could be relied upon to be right as he was a professor of history at Surrey University, not far away.

I was delighted to be able to contradict him and explain that despite his exalted status it was definitely a Norman arch, as they were lovingly hand-made in our joinery department, by our joiner, Norman.

He didn't buy a bathroom from us....