The Lemon Fool

If you see a friend or family member for the first time in a while, and you see they've put a lot of weight on, is it a good idea to say anything? How can you balance concern for their wellbeing with the likelihood of causing offence?

MrFoolish wrote:If you see a friend or family member for the first time in a while, and you see they've put a lot of weight on, is it a good idea to say anything? How can you balance concern for their wellbeing with the likelihood of causing offence?

"Hello... you're looking prosperous!"

No easy answer I'm afraid. Some will take offence and some not. Some realise they are fat and some don't.

A BIL's wife with a long-term enthusiasm for pies is now so fat she cannot get out of bed unaided and her husband has a miserable life.

We are all paying for fatties and their health issues through the NHS. Unfortunately unlike fags there is no offsetting tax stream from fattening food and excessive eating.

Personally I think that on a societal level fat-shaming is an excellent thing but other than mumbling irrelevantly about exercise the media seem unable to address the issue at all, so we may have to wait a generation or so to get back where we were in the 70s.

My 30"W trousers are telling me I've expanded a little so I'm eating less, which is the only way to lose weight... no exercise needed.

None of which answers your question...

V8

Short answer - "no". They will be quite aware of their size.

However sometimes it is difficult to hide it on your face.

"You're looking well" is just about acceptable.
"You're looking well fed" is less so.

And phrases such as "at least your kids will get ther inheritance sooner" are not considered constructive.

Paul

MrFoolish wrote:If you see a friend or family member for the first time in a while, and you see they've put a lot of weight on, is it a good idea to say anything? How can you balance concern for their wellbeing with the likelihood of causing offence?

Not a good idea I'd say. They are probably only too well aware of their problem and do no need you to remind them. I completely agree about the dangers and cost to society of obesity but commenting on it to an individual is not I think going to make the slightest difference so why risk giving offence?

Funnily enough I think you can get away with a light hearted comment about people smoking or even seriously comment but weight issues are much more personal.

Dod

See also this aspect of being overweight which you could drop into a conversation...

V8

Dod101 wrote:Not a good idea I'd say. They are probably only too well aware of their problem and do no need you to remind them. I completely agree about the dangers and cost to society of obesity but commenting on it to an individual is not I think going to make the slightest difference so why risk giving offence?

Funnily enough I think you can get away with a light hearted comment about people smoking or even seriously comment but weight issues are much more personal.

Dod

Well let's say you have a 10% chance of prompting them into changing their lives for the better. I don't know the real probability but I'd suggest my guess isn't outrageously off. In which case, isn't it a risk worth taking?

Without wishing to go O/T, if someone was drinking too much would you say something?

MrFoolish wrote:Well let's say you have a 10% chance of prompting them into changing their lives for the better. I don't know the real probability but I'd suggest my guess isn't outrageously off. In which case, isn't it a risk worth taking?

Oh - I'd say it is outrageously off - and it also neglects the [equally plucked-out-of-air] 20% chance of exacerbating mental health issues which will cause them to eat more.

No it's not a risk worth taking. They know they're podgy. It's a complex area but the last thing they need is people that are not that close to them making [expletive deleted] uninformed comments about it.

Hallucigenia wrote:

MrFoolish wrote:Well let's say you have a 10% chance of prompting them into changing their lives for the better. I don't know the real probability but I'd suggest my guess isn't outrageously off. In which case, isn't it a risk worth taking?

Oh - I'd say it is outrageously off - and it also neglects the [equally plucked-out-of-air] 20% chance of exacerbating mental health issues which will cause them to eat more.

No it's not a risk worth taking. They know they're podgy. It's a complex area but the last thing they need is people that are not that close to them making [expletive deleted] uninformed comments about it.

Well I'm not saying you are wrong in the final analysis. But I do feel your reply - "[expletive deleted] uninformed comments" - has a rec-trolling element to it; quite unnecessary when I'm asking out of genuine concern for someone.

MrFoolish wrote:

Hallucigenia wrote:

MrFoolish wrote:Well let's say you have a 10% chance of prompting them into changing their lives for the better. I don't know the real probability but I'd suggest my guess isn't outrageously off. In which case, isn't it a risk worth taking?

Oh - I'd say it is outrageously off - and it also neglects the [equally plucked-out-of-air] 20% chance of exacerbating mental health issues which will cause them to eat more.

No it's not a risk worth taking. They know they're podgy. It's a complex area but the last thing they need is people that are not that close to them making [expletive deleted] uninformed comments about it.

Well I'm not saying you are wrong in the final analysis. But I do feel your reply - "[expletive deleted] uninformed comments" - has a rec-trolling element to it; quite unnecessary when I'm asking out of genuine concern for someone.

Is it OK to tell them that they're not looking well?

I had an aunt who was a "big lass" but started to look like she was losing weight at least around the face - so much so she looked gaunt, but didn't look smaller in general. She turned out to have had a 2stone cyst that had been hidden by the fact she had always been a bit beefy. I wonder if there would have been an acceptable way to have helped with this being picked up sooner? (It was benign just bulky)

servodude wrote:Is it OK to tell them that they're not looking well?

I had an aunt who was a "big lass" but started to look like she was losing weight at least around the face - so much so she looked gaunt, but didn't look smaller in general. She turned out to have had a 2stone cyst that had been hidden by the fact she had always been a bit beefy. I wonder if there would have been an acceptable way to have helped with this being picked up sooner? (It was benign just bulky)

Well this is it - it's easy to just proclaim "do nothing". But is this always right?

There are two individuals I've seen put on lots of weight. The first, I'm pretty sure just eats too much cos they enjoy food (been there, bought the large t-shirt). So nothing to do with mental health as someone has just assumed. The second person is borderline type 2 diabetic and is deluding herself that it won't get worse. I'm really not sure that biting my lip is the right thing to do, though it's the easiest thing to do.

MrFoolish wrote:

Dod101 wrote:Not a good idea I'd say. They are probably only too well aware of their problem and do no need you to remind them. I completely agree about the dangers and cost to society of obesity but commenting on it to an individual is not I think going to make the slightest difference so why risk giving offence?

Funnily enough I think you can get away with a light hearted comment about people smoking or even seriously comment but weight issues are much more personal.

Dod

Well let's say you have a 10% chance of prompting them into changing their lives for the better. I don't know the real probability but I'd suggest my guess isn't outrageously off. In which case, isn't it a risk worth taking?

Without wishing to go O/T, if someone was drinking too much would you say something?

All of this depends on how well you know the other person but it is a subject I would and do steer well clear of irrespective of what the chances might be of getting them to change their lives for the better. I speak as one who has a daughter in law who is well overweight by any standards but she does not let that stop her getting on with life. I would not say anything and never have to her as I know it would get me nowhere.

If someone was drinking too much? Again I would not say anything, just do my best to avoid his/her company and certainly avoid inviting them to my house.

Dod

MrFoolish wrote:The first, I'm pretty sure just eats too much cos they enjoy food (been there, bought the large t-shirt). So nothing to do with mental health as someone has just assumed.

"Assumed"? That's a teensy bit of a misrepresentation, I think. Hallucigenia's comment related to the fairly good chance (20%?) that summat psychological might be at the root of the over-eating, and that an insensitive prod from one of us might open up a can of worms wealth of other non fat-related issues, whose destructive depth would go far beyond what most of us ordinary mortals would be equipped to comprehend, or handle. People have killed themselves for less.

I've had personal engagements with people who've both over-eaten and under-eaten for essentially psychological/trauma reasons - two of them borderline suicidal -., and I can confirm that it can be really counter-productive to start the conversation by banging on about calories. It was that possibility, I think, that underlay Hal's essentially sensible call for caution.

BJ

bungeejumper wrote:

MrFoolish wrote:The first, I'm pretty sure just eats too much cos they enjoy food (been there, bought the large t-shirt). So nothing to do with mental health as someone has just assumed.

"Assumed"? That's a teensy bit of a misrepresentation, I think. Hallucigenia's comment related to the fairly good chance (20%?) that summat psychological might be at the root of the over-eating, and that an insensitive prod from one of us might open up a can of worms wealth of other non fat-related issues, whose destructive depth would go far beyond what most of us ordinary mortals would be equipped to comprehend, or handle. People have killed themselves for less.

I've had personal engagements with people who've both over-eaten and under-eaten for essentially psychological/trauma reasons - two of them borderline suicidal -., and I can confirm that it can be really counter-productive to start the conversation by banging on about calories. It was that possibility, I think, that underlay Hal's essentially sensible call for caution.

BJ

Yep, well I totally get all that - and it's why I've said nothing to these individuals.

But one of these individuals is eating too much and exercising too little through bad habits. Enjoying the moment, basically.

The other will mostly likely be diabetic before too long if she won't confront the elephant in the room.

There's no sunny uplands to saying nothing either.

I guess when you tried the 'God, you're getting to be a fat git these days' approach, it didn't quite have the desired response?

staffordian wrote:I guess when you tried the 'God, you're getting to be a fat git these days' approach, it didn't quite have the desired response?

I actually remember the days when people were fairly blunt about these things. It probably had some merit because people weren't conditioned to take the comments too seriously.

It's curious that it's so much easier to bring up a drink problem; you can start with "Oh, you are knocking back a few tonight. Is everything ok?"

But there's no safe conversation starter with over-eating it would seem.

MrFoolish wrote:Well I'm not saying you are wrong in the final analysis. But I do feel your reply - "[expletive deleted] uninformed comments" - has a rec-trolling element to it; quite unnecessary when I'm asking out of genuine concern for someone.

No rec-trolling involved at all - but the fact that you immediately assume that's what I'm doing, just adds to the feeling that you lack the empathy and/or experience to make comments in this area. Seriously - you may have other skills, but you should have the self-awareness to know that this is not your thing.

Whereas yep, BJ gets where I'm coming from - coming from a "see you once a year" visitor, these kind of comments are more likely to have a counter-productive effect than otherwise, and you should consider that before wading in feet first. It's not just a mechanical thing of calories, this stuff has a huge psychological aspect which has to be approached the right way.

Whereas it's different the other way - I had a relative whose daily contacts didn't see a change, but old friends who saw him at a wedding for the first time in months picked up on him not looking well. Two months later he went to a doctor because he wasn't feeling well, another 4 months later he was dead from cancer at a relatively young age.

Hallucigenia wrote:No rec-trolling involved at all - but the fact that you immediately assume that's what I'm doing, just adds to the feeling that you lack the empathy and/or experience to make comments in this area. Seriously - you may have other skills, but you should have the self-awareness to know that this is not your thing.

Bit of a non sequitur. I've not claimed to have experience in this area, which is precisely why I've been asking others if they have suggestions. You seem to have a lot to say, so may I ask what is your expertise in this area?

I think it depends on how well you know them and if they will take your concern in the way you intend.

"oh fatty you have been eating all the pies" might be fine with someone you know really well but any size related comments might not go down well however mild with some.

Often it's a lifestyle choice that needs updating rather than a temporary reduction in intake which can lead to the opposite result in the longer term.

It's also about picking the right food rather than limiting calories

Gerry557 wrote:I think it depends on how well you know them and if they will take your concern in the way you intend.

"oh fatty you have been eating all the pies" might be fine with someone you know really well but any size related comments might not go down well however mild with some.

I'm inclined to go along with this. I've another (male) friend whose weight fluctuates and he's quite receptive to discussing it. In fact he'll readily accept the kick up the pants and will spring into corrective action.

Whereas the two people I was thinking of at the start of this thread... well I'm not going to risk the potential emotional fallout.

Suppose it's a bit like the Mrs asking if this dress (or anything else) makes her look fat or her bum big. Although the latter seems to be a thing now according to the tinternet.

You never say yes even if its true. An "I prefer you in that other one" tends to keep the peace.

The gyms will be really busy now for the next 2 or 3 weeks. It gives you an opening that might lead to a none confrontation discussion about fitness rather than fat. Which might bring things around to the points you are trying to make.

Just remember not everyone gets health and fitness. Is it lazyness, lack of knowledge or access to facilities. It's easy to find an excuse. Some cultures are fat on purpose as its a sign off wealth.

I don't think all the processed food helps or the lack of teaching of home cooked food. I know someone who left home for his job and substantially ballooned as his lifestyle included online gaming. He helped others with this and they paid in delivered pizzas. This eventually lead to nearly all meals being pizza and no physical movement except thumbs. Lack of sleep was also an issue as you can get engrossed until the early hours, finish starving and another delivery is just a app push away. They have changed but its taken a while and it will take a not more effort just to get back to normal.