Hospital chaos and the NHS

[Dod101]

I attended a clinic in our local hospital this morning. Judging by the news headlines I was expecting chaos but all was peaceful, calm and quiet. The staff were unhurried and friendly. Not an ambulance in sight at A & E.

Crisis? What crisis?

Dod

[pje16]

Not chaos but busy
Last month I called 111 as I have a prostate problem which was getting urgent
I have used it once before, 3 years ago, and it worked fine. a doctor called back with 15 minutes
There was a recorded message saying they were very busy, and it would better to log the call online, so I did that
20 minutes later a nurse called me back she was very friendly and thorough and after hearing my symptoms said I needed to go to hospital, but they had no ambulances readily available and could I get there myself

This was fine though, as I suspect other people's needs were greater than mine and I drove myself to Barnet A&E arriving at 23.10
The waiting room was absolutely packed, around 50-60 people
I registered and was told to take a seat
About 30 minutes later an announcement was made that Triage waiting time was 90 minutes and the expected waiting time to see a doctor was EIGHT hours
WHAT that will be morning !!
They then said people would be seen in order of priority
Over the next 3 hours, I saw 4 different medical staff I was triaged, had a blood sample done, a urine sample and a bladder scan and finally a diagnosis, and then I left at 2.30am
During my treatment time another announcement was made suggesting that if your case was not urgent that you go home and attend an urgent car centre in the morning, That made about 50% leave
This is the crux of the problem, A&E departments are over run because it is SO difficult to get an appointment with your doctor

I have nothing but admiration and gratitude for the NHS, 3 years ago they saved my life
I will never forget the nurses and doctors on that occasion
but the administration and layers of management in the NHS means just throwing UK Gov money at NHS fixes nothing

[monabri]

I bet the car parks at hospitals are doing very nicely thank you!

[pje16]

Re my post above
the pay machine was broken that night, so I was told parking was free

[Tedx]

I attended a clinic in our local hospital this morning. Judging by the news headlines I was expecting chaos but all was peaceful, calm and quiet. The staff were unhurried and friendly. Not an ambulance in sight at A & E.

Crisis? What crisis?

Dod

I know. A reporter snapped a picture of 5 ambulances outside our local hospital A&E last week. I don't know how long he sat there to get that picture, but either myself of my wife drive/walk past the place on a very regular basis and have never seen 'mayhem' like that before.

I'm not denying they're not busy, but that reporter has to sell a pic to pay his bills and a dull/everyday snap just doesnt put food on the table.

If you went by the press, the country has been in 'crisis', 'perfect storms' or 'carnage' for decades.

Saying that, I'd rather have a free press than being fed news by a government agency.

[pje16]

I know. A reporter snapped a picture of 5 ambulances outside our local hospital A&E last week. I don't know how long he sat there to get that picture, but either myself of my wife drive/walk past the place on a very regular basis and have never seen 'mayhem' like that before.

Exactly what reporters (some are scum) do, sit, wait and pass on the bad news
He wouldn't sit there and take picture of it when empty

[Dod101]

I bet the car parks at hospitals are doing very nicely thank you!

Most car parks at hospitals are free in Scotland and my one was this morning. Pre covid you could not find a space but today there were plenty of spaces. The whole thing is weird.

Dod

[Steveam]

pje16 wrote: “but the administration and layers of management in the NHS means just throwing UK Gov money at NHS fixes nothing”

The only analysis I’ve seen on this issue was by the Kings Fund … I’ve been trying to find it but can’t. Anyway, the thing I took away was that better performance seemed to correlate with higher management %ages.

I was at Guys recently and watched the chaos in an admin group with knock-on to nurses, doctors and other clinicians. The admin function was disfunctional and overwhelmed: perhaps recruitment of an extra administrator would improve efficiency.

Best wishes,

Steve

[pje16]

pje16 wrote: “but the administration and layers of management in the NHS means just throwing UK Gov money at NHS fixes nothing”

The only analysis I’ve seen on this issue was by the Kings Fund … I’ve been trying to find it but can’t. Anyway, the thing I took away was that better performance seemed to correlate with higher management %ages.

I was at Guys recently and watched the chaos in an admin group with knock-on to nurses, doctors and other clinicians. The admin function was disfunctional and overwhelmed: perhaps recruitment of an extra administrator would improve efficiency.

Best wishes,

Steve

I didn't need to find any analysis
I gave seen over the years how many times UK Gov have given billions to the NHS
and heard stories of how mid level managers at the HNS are on £100k+ to know that money is not the only solution

[servodude]

pje16 wrote: “but the administration and layers of management in the NHS means just throwing UK Gov money at NHS fixes nothing”

The only analysis I’ve seen on this issue was by the Kings Fund … I’ve been trying to find it but can’t. Anyway, the thing I took away was that better performance seemed to correlate with higher management %ages.

I was at Guys recently and watched the chaos in an admin group with knock-on to nurses, doctors and other clinicians. The admin function was disfunctional and overwhelmed: perhaps recruitment of an extra administrator would improve efficiency.

Best wishes,

Steve

I didn't need to find any analysis
I gave seen over the years how many times UK Gov have given billions to the NHS
and heard stories of how mid level managers at the HNS are on £100k+ to know that money is not the only solution

Indeed. Look at the cost of PPE when you really need it

A proper functioning "health service" needs a good deal of strategic thinking and investment... and commitment.

The NHS in the UK for nearly the past two decades has become more of an ideological potato being tossed about by politicians on every side (there's more than two) for electoral points than a provider of care.
It could be so much more, and better, with just a little bit more conviction in wanting it to succeed; what's wrong on the front line is pretty well understood... but it's easier to profit from a culture war or crisis

[Steveam]

pje16 wrote: “I didn't need to find any analysis”

Facts not Opinions (engraved in the lintel of the Kirkaldy Testing Museum, London)

Best wishes,

Steve

[pje16]

pje16 wrote: “I didn't need to find any analysis”

Facts not Opinions (engraved in the lintel of the Kirkaldy Testing Museum, London)

Best wishes,

Steve

Oh, so opinions/views don't seem to count then, OK

[Dod101]

I was not intending that this thread become another rant about the NHS. I was simply commenting that my local hospital seemed well under control and calm yesterday so they are not all chaotic.

Dod

[dealtn]

pje16 wrote: “I didn't need to find any analysis”

Facts not Opinions (engraved in the lintel of the Kirkaldy Testing Museum, London)

Best wishes,

Steve

Oh, so opinions/views don't seem to count then, OK

I'm sure they do. But why wouldn't you wish to back up any opinion with some facts. Proclamations that no facts or analysis are required is daft, and diminishes any argument based solely on opinions or views.

[pje16]

pje16 wrote: “I didn't need to find any analysis”

Facts not Opinions (engraved in the lintel of the Kirkaldy Testing Museum, London)

Best wishes,

Steve

Oh, so opinions/views don't seem to count then, OK

I'm sure they do. But why wouldn't you wish to back up any opinion with some facts. Proclamations that no facts or analysis are required is daft, and diminishes any argument based solely on opinions or views.

Happy new year to you too

[servodude]

I was not intending that this thread become another rant about the NHS. I was simply commenting that my local hospital seemed well under control and calm yesterday so they are not all chaotic.

Dod

It's always been a post code lottery

I was in our local A&E for a bit today after our big kid woke up with a very swollen tongue (she's been in a couple of times for anaphylaxis to weird stuff - mangoes in particular have it in for her!) and with her history the GP told us to not risk it.
Home in two hours after bloods, Covid test and a visit by the ENT team; looks like this nasty strepA that's going about has set up stall in her tongue (peri-tonsilitis style)

Anyways she slept the rest of the day as you should at 18 and I went through the nuances of DADGAD tuning on the back deck with her younger sister (as apparently that's back in fashion )

I wouldn't want to extrapolate my experience to others' though
- we were lucky in that that bits we needed were free when we needed them and the staff do a great job of being pragmatic rather than dogmatic with the processes

I hope you are well Dod - I need my book recommendations

[Steveam]

I meant to give this link …

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/

Best wishes,

Steve

[swill453]

It's always been a post code lottery

Before we had postcodes, how did we say "It's not exactly the same everywhere in the country"?

Scott.

[servodude]

It's always been a post code lottery

Before we had postcodes, how did we say "It's not exactly the same everywhere in the country"?

Scott.

As a fan of such words as widdershins (& doesil) I did try and think of an archaic alternative - and failed

Probably would have been a bailiwick in there somewhere though

[pje16]

It's always been a post code lottery

Before we had postcodes, how did we say "It's not exactly the same everywhere in the country"?

Scott.

40 years ago I guess we referred to counties (if we needed to)