Donate to Remove ads

Got a credit card? use our Credit Card & Finance Calculators

Thanks to johnstevens77,Rhyd6,87investor,longview,Sussexlad, for Donating to support the site

REITs investing in Care Homes

airbus330
2 Lemon pips
Posts: 114
Joined: December 1st, 2018, 3:55 pm
Has thanked: 48 times
Been thanked: 38 times

REITs investing in Care Homes

#319723

Postby airbus330 » June 19th, 2020, 11:25 am

ReallyVeryFoolish wrote:
airbus330 wrote:Thanks for posting that piece on RGL. It's in my intensive care ward and I'd been looking for reasons why it hadn't really become less volatile apart from spill over from other parts of the sector. Keeping them for now.

Yes, I think it's sector contagion rather than a findamental issue at RGL. My discomfort at holding too much RGL is subsiding by the day. A nice divi soon. I think I am putting that into Impact REIT along with a few shillings from elsewhere.

RVF

While Care Homes are never going to go away, I know from a friends experience how hard it is to run one profitably. Personally, I wonder if they might be dragged back into public ownership, especially if Sir Kier comes to power. Best of luck with it though.
Moderator Message:
Split off from Regional REIT thread to concentrate on care home REITs. - Chris

ReallyVeryFoolish
Lemon Slice
Posts: 998
Joined: October 5th, 2019, 12:06 pm
Has thanked: 733 times
Been thanked: 436 times

Re: REITs investing in Care Homes

#319729

Postby ReallyVeryFoolish » June 19th, 2020, 11:36 am

airbus330 wrote:
ReallyVeryFoolish wrote:
airbus330 wrote:Thanks for posting that piece on RGL. It's in my intensive care ward and I'd been looking for reasons why it hadn't really become less volatile apart from spill over from other parts of the sector. Keeping them for now.

Yes, I think it's sector contagion rather than a findamental issue at RGL. My discomfort at holding too much RGL is subsiding by the day. A nice divi soon. I think I am putting that into Impact REIT along with a few shillings from elsewhere.

RVF

While Care Homes are never going to go away, I know from a friends experience how hard it is to run one profitably. Personally, I wonder if they might be dragged back into public ownership, especially if Sir Kier comes to power. Best of luck with it though.

Impact own the homes, they don't run them but I see what you mean. Reading about Impact I am farily impressed with them. Old people are getting older and there's more of them every day.

RVF

gbjbaanb
Lemon Slice
Posts: 597
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 1:17 pm
Has thanked: 193 times
Been thanked: 123 times

Re: REITs investing in Care Homes

#319913

Postby gbjbaanb » June 20th, 2020, 2:35 am

ReallyVeryFoolish wrote:Old people are getting older and there's more of them every day.


not after the policy of freeing up hospital beds by sending all the ill ones to care homes that ended up killing many off with covid. I think this will have an impact on their reputation and may even affect future residency, with people trying anything but going into a care home after this. Labour will be shouting about it a lot, just in their usual way of criticising the tories, it may have a knock-on effect.

ReallyVeryFoolish
Lemon Slice
Posts: 998
Joined: October 5th, 2019, 12:06 pm
Has thanked: 733 times
Been thanked: 436 times

Re: REITs investing in Care Homes

#319917

Postby ReallyVeryFoolish » June 20th, 2020, 5:53 am

gbjbaanb wrote:
ReallyVeryFoolish wrote:Old people are getting older and there's more of them every day.


not after the policy of freeing up hospital beds by sending all the ill ones to care homes that ended up killing many off with covid. I think this will have an impact on their reputation and may even affect future residency, with people trying anything but going into a care home after this. Labour will be shouting about it a lot, just in their usual way of criticising the tories, it may have a knock-on effect.

Is there any evidence to support that though? Very recently, Mrs RVF had to ring around local care homes for her 90+ y.o. father as he took a turn for the worse unexpectedly. Guess what? They were mostly 100% full. No chance to get 1st, 2nd or even 3rd choice. Thanks for the input.

Edit - She subsequently did a bit of research. Guess what? Some of those that were full were owned by?

Yes - Impact REIT.

RVF

Itsallaguess
Lemon Half
Posts: 5671
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 1:16 pm
Has thanked: 2287 times
Been thanked: 4308 times

Re: REITs investing in Care Homes

#319918

Postby Itsallaguess » June 20th, 2020, 6:17 am

ReallyVeryFoolish wrote:
Very recently, Mrs RVF had to ring around local care homes for her 90+ y.o. father as he took a turn for the worse unexpectedly.

Guess what?

They were mostly 100% full.


Hmm......I'm not sure '100% full' means quite what it used to mean for many 'people-related' businesses though...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

ReallyVeryFoolish
Lemon Slice
Posts: 998
Joined: October 5th, 2019, 12:06 pm
Has thanked: 733 times
Been thanked: 436 times

Re: REITs investing in Care Homes

#319919

Postby ReallyVeryFoolish » June 20th, 2020, 6:51 am

Itsallaguess wrote:
ReallyVeryFoolish wrote:
Very recently, Mrs RVF had to ring around local care homes for her 90+ y.o. father as he took a turn for the worse unexpectedly.

Guess what?

They were mostly 100% full.


Hmm......I'm not sure '100% full' means quite what it used to mean for many 'people-related' businesses though...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

I can only tell you that they had no spare rooms. The main precaution at the care homes we know about is a complete block on visitors to clients. If the homes were full before the virus panic they'll still be full after it. After all, the reason clients are in there in the first place is because they have pretty much run out of other viable options. They aren't moving out any time soon. That's our experience and that's ll we can go on. I can't see any evidence that conclusivley shows I'm wrong. Despite what some of the more hysterical media outlets may have you believe. Anyway, enough for now on that from me.

RVF

jonesa1
2 Lemon pips
Posts: 166
Joined: May 27th, 2019, 9:47 am
Has thanked: 58 times
Been thanked: 79 times

Re: REITs investing in Care Homes

#319923

Postby jonesa1 » June 20th, 2020, 7:58 am

gbjbaanb wrote:
not after the policy of freeing up hospital beds by sending all the ill ones to care homes that ended up killing many off with covid. I think this will have an impact on their reputation and may even affect future residency, with people trying anything but going into a care home after this. Labour will be shouting about it a lot, just in their usual way of criticising the tories, it may have a knock-on effect.


For most people a care home is the last resort. To reverse the trend of ever increasing numbers requiring care when elderly and unable to look after themselves, would require major social change, such as reverting back to multi-generational living being the norm. That might happen, but it probably won't happen quickly. In the mean-time the proportion of elderly people will continue rising and a significant number of this group will require care. The business model behind care homes is likely to change post-covid, possibly with a lot more state supervision and possibly with a lot more central government finance (aimed at mitigating the political damage of criticism around high covid death rates, which is now firmly in Labour's arsenal). I guess we'll know in about 10 years whether care home REITs were a good investment in 2020.

Itsallaguess
Lemon Half
Posts: 5671
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 1:16 pm
Has thanked: 2287 times
Been thanked: 4308 times

Re: REITs investing in Care Homes

#320161

Postby Itsallaguess » June 21st, 2020, 6:56 am

ReallyVeryFoolish wrote:
Itsallaguess wrote:
Hmm......I'm not sure '100% full' means quite what it used to mean for many 'people-related' businesses though...


I can only tell you that they had no spare rooms. The main precaution at the care homes we know about is a complete block on visitors to clients. If the homes were full before the virus panic they'll still be full after it. After all, the reason clients are in there in the first place is because they have pretty much run out of other viable options. They aren't moving out any time soon. That's our experience and that's all we can go on.


Thanks RVF - that's good to know.

It'll be interesting to see what sort of additional costs this pandemic has created in these types of 'people-centric' businesses, and how well they're able to pass those extra costs on to their customers.

Good to hear that capacity isn't a big issue though.

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

gbjbaanb
Lemon Slice
Posts: 597
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 1:17 pm
Has thanked: 193 times
Been thanked: 123 times

Re: REITs investing in Care Homes

#320269

Postby gbjbaanb » June 21st, 2020, 3:43 pm

IIRC a lot of people were moved to care homes from hospitals in order to free up beds for the expected avalanche of covid patients.

That tells me that hospitals are providing some form of care for the elderly ill, and that might start to be more common - though the cynic in me says its only because the local authority cannot afford to send them to a care home, so leave them "bed blocking" where its someone else's problem.

Interesting that the ones you contacted were 100% full, I was told tens of thousands of the elderly in care homes had succumbed to the virus.
Moderator Message:
Split off from Regional REIT thread to concentrate on care home REITs. - Chris

ReallyVeryFoolish
Lemon Slice
Posts: 998
Joined: October 5th, 2019, 12:06 pm
Has thanked: 733 times
Been thanked: 436 times

Re: REITs investing in Care Homes

#320359

Postby ReallyVeryFoolish » June 22nd, 2020, 1:03 am

gbjbaanb wrote:IIRC a lot of people were moved to care homes from hospitals in order to free up beds for the expected avalanche of covid patients.

That tells me that hospitals are providing some form of care for the elderly ill, and that might start to be more common - though the cynic in me says its only because the local authority cannot afford to send them to a care home, so leave them "bed blocking" where its someone else's problem.

Interesting that the ones you contacted were 100% full, I was told tens of thousands of the elderly in care homes had succumbed to the virus.

We'll never actually know really. There's also a common school of thought that says the virus has been used as a convenient label to hang on a fair proportion of recent deaths. That, I can believe. What we found in our recent situation looking for care home accomodation at short notice was that the homes which anecdotally had the better reputation were all full. 1st, 2nd and 3rd choice fell into that category. Being self a funded client the cost was a factor (but not the #1 factor) which meant shopping around. We did get a space at short notice and it was fine. What struck us was the very strict indeed "no visitors" policy. That must have helped limit virus exposure to some degree. It was also kind of interesting that when Mrs RVF did a bit of due diligence, some of the better regarded, and hence full, care homes were owned by Impact REIT. So, only our recent experience. But I suspect hysterical media claims of huge fatality numbers country wide in care homes isn't the whole truth. It may also be the case that the management of Impact REIT are carrying out good background checks on their lessees, only letting homes to care providers who meet certain standards, including ability to pay the rent longer term.

RVF


Return to “REITs & Property Companies”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests