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My REIT spreadsheet at 01-06-2022

torata
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Re: My REIT spreadsheet at 01-06-2022

#505475

Postby torata » June 7th, 2022, 1:04 am

Dod101 wrote:
MDW1954 wrote:
Dod101 wrote:However if we are to look at REITs, we need to look at all of them, not just those which happen to be members of the AIC. As it happens the two REITs that I hold are not on MDW's list of scrapings anyway, Segro and Primary Health Properties. That is why commented as i did.

Dod


So, Dod:

Where would you go for (say) discount and yield information?

Let's take the two you mention, Segro and PHP, temporarily overlooking Segro's minusule yield. Where DO you go?

MDW1954


I go to the Companies' websites and my own records. Where do you go for those company's records? Clearly the AIC site is of no use, and the fact is that Segro has done me proud both in terms of income, but more especially total return. Not everything has to be seen through the eyes of a HYPer and anyway this is the general REITs and Property Companies' Board.

Dod


Dod
I had a look at the Segro site and wasn't able to find information on the discount.

Malcolm
Thanks for making your spreadsheet public.

torata

Dod101
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Re: My REIT spreadsheet at 01-06-2022

#505489

Postby Dod101 » June 7th, 2022, 7:26 am

torata wrote:
Dod101 wrote:
MDW1954 wrote:
Dod101 wrote:However if we are to look at REITs, we need to look at all of them, not just those which happen to be members of the AIC. As it happens the two REITs that I hold are not on MDW's list of scrapings anyway, Segro and Primary Health Properties. That is why commented as i did.

Dod


So, Dod:

Where would you go for (say) discount and yield information?

Let's take the two you mention, Segro and PHP, temporarily overlooking Segro's minusule yield. Where DO you go?

MDW1954


I go to the Companies' websites and my own records. Where do you go for those company's records? Clearly the AIC site is of no use, and the fact is that Segro has done me proud both in terms of income, but more especially total return. Not everything has to be seen through the eyes of a HYPer and anyway this is the general REITs and Property Companies' Board.

Dod


Dod
I had a look at the Segro site and wasn't able to find information on the discount.

Malcolm
Thanks for making your spreadsheet public.

torata


I think that it is usually quoted in the Annual Report but it is not a metric that bothers me very much. It is after all a trading company as well as a REIT, like British Land and Land Securities, not like say Tritax and so on. They are not members of the AIC because they have little in common with their members, (most of whom are traditional investment trusts)

Dod

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Re: My REIT spreadsheet at 01-06-2022

#505493

Postby Dod101 » June 7th, 2022, 7:42 am

I can change that. The Segro NAV is quoted in the Annual Report and also the half yearly reports. I do not know if they report it at other times.

Dod

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Re: My REIT spreadsheet at 01-06-2022

#505542

Postby MDW1954 » June 7th, 2022, 10:47 am

Dod101 wrote:I can change that. The Segro NAV is quoted in the Annual Report and also the half yearly reports. I do not know if they report it at other times.

Dod


Dod,

I think you'll find that half-yearly NAV estimates also apply in the case of PHP, where I'm also a holder. (I don't hold SGRO.)

You state that you don't find information on discounts and premia useful. (Your exact words: the data "doesn't bother me much".)

Earlier in this thread you said:

Well MDW, fact is that you did not say where your data came from. [MDW edit: I had, Dod just hadn't looked.] What it shows of course is that those REITs in favour are at a premium and those not are at a discount, but the other fact is that this list is far from a comprehensive view of the REIT universe so it does throw into question just how useful the spreadsheet is. Most of the big property companies, although REITs, are missing, for instance. Just because they are not members of the AIC, should not disqualify them.

Dod


So, if you don't find the discount and premia information useful, and yet you feel compelled to observe that the abscence of companies such as SGRO and PHP "throws into question just how useful the spreadsheet is", then I have another very simple question for you.

What information does it contain that you do find useful, the absence of which prompts you to call into question the value of the spreadsheet?

MDW1954

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Re: My REIT spreadsheet at 01-06-2022

#505609

Postby Dod101 » June 7th, 2022, 4:06 pm

MDW1954 wrote:
Dod101 wrote:I can change that. The Segro NAV is quoted in the Annual Report and also the half yearly reports. I do not know if they report it at other times.

Dod


Dod,

I think you'll find that half-yearly NAV estimates also apply in the case of PHP, where I'm also a holder. (I don't hold SGRO.)

You state that you don't find information on discounts and premia useful. (Your exact words: the data "doesn't bother me much".)

Earlier in this thread you said:

Well MDW, fact is that you did not say where your data came from. [MDW edit: I had, Dod just hadn't looked.] What it shows of course is that those REITs in favour are at a premium and those not are at a discount, but the other fact is that this list is far from a comprehensive view of the REIT universe so it does throw into question just how useful the spreadsheet is. Most of the big property companies, although REITs, are missing, for instance. Just because they are not members of the AIC, should not disqualify them.

Dod


So, if you don't find the discount and premia information useful, and yet you feel compelled to observe that the abscence of companies such as SGRO and PHP "throws into question just how useful the spreadsheet is", then I have another very simple question for you.

What information does it contain that you do find useful, the absence of which prompts you to call into question the value of the spreadsheet?

MDW1954


Look I have no intention of justifying my every comment. I called into question the value of the spreadsheet because it does not contain info on the entire universe of REITs, only apparently those which sign up to the AIC. I am not saying the discount and premia information is not useful, just that it would not dissuade me from buying if I liked the assets and the way the company is run. I for instance bought 3i Infrastructure at a premium I think, but so what? I like the spread of assets and it performs well. I am much more interested in the business of the company, actually even than whether or not it is a REIT, and of course the steadiness of the assets, the consistency of the yield and so on. They all come well before whether it is selling at a discount or premia to NAV in my book.


Dod

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Re: My REIT spreadsheet at 01-06-2022

#505633

Postby MDW1954 » June 7th, 2022, 7:12 pm

Dod101 wrote:Look I have no intention of justifying my every comment.
Dod


Fair enough.

MDW1954

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Re: My REIT spreadsheet at 01-06-2022

#506203

Postby idpickering » June 10th, 2022, 6:38 am

MDW1954 wrote:
Forget it. That will be be the last of my REIT spreadsheets posted here.

MDW1954


FWIW, I found the spreadsheet very informative, so thanks for posting it hereabouts.

I do hope it is not the last REIT spreadsheet you post a link to on HYPP too.

Ian.

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Re: My REIT spreadsheet at 01-06-2022

#506283

Postby puffster » June 10th, 2022, 2:13 pm

idpickering wrote:
MDW1954 wrote:
Forget it. That will be be the last of my REIT spreadsheets posted here.

MDW1954

FWIW, I found the spreadsheet very informative, so thanks for posting it hereabouts.

I do hope it is not the last REIT spreadsheet you post a link to on HYPP too.

Ian.

I found it very useful, thanks for your effort.

As they say no good deed goes unpunished...

Regards, Puffster

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Re: My REIT spreadsheet at 01-06-2022

#513776

Postby brightncheerful » July 12th, 2022, 5:59 pm

In 2007, when the Labour party was the Government, and Gordon Brown was intent upon extracting the hidden wealth in quoted property companies, so keen were the boards of LAND and BLND to convert to REITs that they destroyed shareholders value.

The cost of conversion involved paying substantial amount of tax at a time when the notional gain (estimated market capital value) was at its highest. It wasn't that long afterwards that rights issues to raise more capital to finance development projects had to be at deep discounted sp.

British REITs have to distribute 90% of their income to investors. Income that would ordinarily be used to fund /subsidise the costs of development.


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