300k lump some to invest at 35 years old

[Blackrat]

Hi people

Due to the passing of my late my father I have the sum of 300k to Invest.

I’m 35 years old and and would like to tuck this money away for around ten years in the hope of it growing exponentially

After years of reading about property and shares I’ve decided property investing is a business which I don’t want to be involved in,As I quite enjoy my job (London black cabby).

I own my home with my partner worth approx 425k and have about 90k equity.(it’s a fixer upper so hoping to potter about and play builders hopefully adding some value over the next few years)

So my investment plan is as follows,

open a general dealing account with vanguard and split my capital between

33%ftse all world etf,
33%ftse global all cap index fund (to gain exposure to small caps)
and
33% s and p 500 etf

I might play around with some individual stocks or 5% in other funds maybe Asia,what do you guys think? Am I on the right track? I don’t Really have a clue tbh

Also Is the most tax efficient way to open the dealing account then transfer over into my isa Allowance each year ?
I don’t have a sipp and don’t plan to as my dad died young like most of the men in my family and I don’t like the fact it’s locked away.

Cheers guys

[Pendrainllwyn]

Since by your own admission you don’t really have a clue and don't aspire to having one I suggest you avoid single stocks and stick to the broad based ETF’s. I would also probably avoid the temptation to put all the money in at once.
I haven’t looked but the top two ETFs are probably not that different. If so I would consider spreading across the second one (to get small cap exposure) and the S&P500.
I would check what currencies they pay dividends in. GBP or USD. If USD you may be better off with ETFs that automatically accumulate the dividends.
Best of luck and be patient with whatever choices you make.
Pendrainllwyn

[Wuffle]

Depending on how much flexibility you already have to manipulate your declared earnings as a cabbie (is the regulated black cab world different to my northern dump where the cash element IS the appeal) I would give some thought to getting it in shelters briskly.
Options include a bit off the mortgage when your cheap fixed rate ends or improvements, the SIPP that you aren't keen on but which is transferable to your partner and also the 20 grand a year slog into an ISA. I would be tempted to go for everything, they are all tax efficient.

W.

[Urbandreamer]

I don’t have a sipp and don’t plan to as my dad died young like most of the men in my family and I don’t like the fact it’s locked away.

There are many reasons to reconsider that opinion, but probably no rush to actually get a SIPP.

Reasons to consider a SIPP:

Inheritance, well you did mention death. Money in a pension can be passed on without IHT to anyone. Your own children, those of family, brothers, sisters, girlfriend or even your mistress via an expression of wishes lodged with the provider. ISA's only escape IHT if passed to someone you are married to.

Optimizing tax situation. If you reach 57 (new age) and wish to retire, then you can draw your personal allowance from the pension (SIPP) and top it up with money from your ISA. The result is that you benefit in full from the tax rebate made when you contributed, and any compound growth upon that portion. Hence, assuming no growth, if you are currently a 20% tax payer £80 becomes £100. If you work exceptionally hard £60 becomes £100. This continues until you claim your state pension 10 years later. At which point you reduce the amount that you take from the SIPP to stay in the 0% tax band. (this is true if you fail to kick the bucket)

Still as I say, no real rush.
Assuming that you feed the money into a single ISA it would take you 15 years. At any point during that time, using money that you have in the bank or dealing account could be a no-brainer. Assuming you have got to that point and are 50 and are still working, you could decide to use your pension allowance to gain the benefit of contributing over the following 7 years.

Of course if you reach 57 and are still working then, since you can claim a pension, contributing to one really is a no-brainer.

PS, IHT kicks in on estates over £325k. I suspect that it might be an issue for your beneficiaries if you died tomorrow. I'd recommend doing some pension research with an eye to IHT, even if you are in no rush to start one. Pensions passed on can become part of the recipients pension. In turn being passed on free of IHT. Oh and make a will if you haven't already.

[Bubblesofearth]

Hi people

open a general dealing account with vanguard and split my capital between

33%ftse all world etf,
33%ftse global all cap index fund (to gain exposure to small caps)
and
33% s and p 500 etf

Cheers guys

Just a comment on this equity strategy - It's a pretty high exposure to US. World trackers are abut 50% US currently and adding 1/3 of your money to an S&P 500 etc will increase your weighting to around 2/3. Fine if that's what you want but just be aware of it. Otherwise all in a cheap global tracker (Vanguard?).

You have a £20,000 ISA allowance each year, plus £20,000 for your partner (Shawshank redemption question here ) so you could drip-feed £40k in each year.

BoE

[swill453]

I would check what currencies they pay dividends in. GBP or USD. If USD you may be better off with ETFs that automatically accumulate the dividends.

Note that if dividends are accumulated they are still taxable, if held in a non-tax-sheltered account. This can cause extra work to calculate liability.

Scott.

[JohnB]

You might want to have different brokers for your ISA and unsheltered funds. The chances of fraud are minimal, but if a broker gets into trouble you don't want to wait months to access your money. Use ACC units for the ISA, INC units for the unsheltered stuff. Remember to keep deflating the capital gains in the unsheltered stuff by selling a fraction each year. You might want to add 50k a month to avoid cursing any market falls.

[tjh290633]

So my investment plan is as follows,

open a general dealing account with vanguard and split my capital between

33%ftse all world etf,
33%ftse global all cap index fund (to gain exposure to small caps)
and
33% s and p 500 etf

I might play around with some individual stocks or 5% in other funds maybe Asia,what do you guys think? Am I on the right track? I don’t Really have a clue tbh

There is a bit of an obsession with Vanguard, and I am not sure that they are the best place to open an account. If you want to invest in shares or ETFs not in their range, can you do so?

You might find that a global IT like F&C (FCIT) is worth holding.

Accumulation funds do save you the trouble of reinvesting the dividends, but they do go back whence they came. That may not always be the best option.

I suggest that you look for maximum flexibility coupled with low cost in the platform which you choose. I also agree with transferring the maximum each year into an S&S ISA. With ultimately retirement in mind, that would be a good place to have shares or funds which pay reasonable dividends, as you can withdraw those free of tax in the future.

TJH

[mc2fool]

Hi Blackrat, welcome to the Lemon Fool.

Ok, so, firstly "I’m 35 years old and and would like to tuck this money away for around ten years in the hope of it growing exponentially"

Why ten years? Is there some upcoming event around then that you'll need some or all of the money for? Stock markets aren't well suited for fixed-period investment. I also wonder what your expectations are for growing exponentially. Historically a doubling over that period would be reasonable, although with great variance of course.

Re "open a general dealing account with vanguard". Woah! They charge an account fee of 0.15%pa capped at £375 and with £300K the £375pa is what you'll be paying them, just for the account.

Consider IWeb instead, https://www.iweb-sharedealing.co.uk/. They have just a £100 account opening fee and then no ongoing account fees at all. They do charge £5 per trade but that's really nothing in the grand scheme of things. So, with your proposed 3 holding portfolio you'll pay £115 the first year and then nothing after that.

And with IWeb you can buy the same Vanguard ETFs & funds but you can also buy other non-Vanguard ETFs & funds and, should you ever decide to, individual stocks (although I would echo Pendrainllwyn's comments on that). IWeb is run by Halifax Share Dealing and is owned by the Lloyds Banking Group, so it's about the safest broker around (not that Vanguard is unsafe).

Re "Also Is the most tax efficient way to open the dealing account then transfer over into my isa Allowance each year ?", not quite sure what you mean by most tax efficient or, for that matter, by transfer.

There really isn't a tax efficient or inefficient way to add to an ISA; you just bung the money in and that's it. Note that you cannot transfer holdings directly into an ISA, you can only put in cash. You may hear of Bed'n'ISA "transfers" but that's just parlance for selling the outside-of-the-ISA holding, transferring the money into the ISA, and then buying the holding again within the ISA.

Some brokers (inc. IWeb) offer a Bed'n'ISA service where they will do that for you and only charge you one dealing fee, but it's still a sell-and-rebuy.

[DrFfybes]

It looks like you have a £335k mortgage, and a £300k lump sum.

Depending upon your mortgage terms, personally I would seriously loook at paying that down, especially if you are coming ot the end of a term and will need to remortgage at a higher rate. You mention a partner, so that would also depend upon how the house is owned and what agreements you have regarding it. My approach would then be to use your mortgage payment reduction to make monthly investments. There's a lot of turmoil in the markets, and little point in trying to time them, and evidence that drip feeding is no better than lump sum invesments, but mentally for me it removed that irritation of ploughing mum's inheritance into VEVE at £68 in March and watching it sit at a loss ever since because I lacked the patience or self restraint to invest it over 6 months rather than 6 days.


The current IHT exepmt status of SIPPs has already been covered. Might seem trivil now, but might well not do in 20 years.

Obiously you have your ISA allowance(s) and I would agree a simple way is a fixed fee broker such as Interactive Investor, and have a dealing account and an ISA account, and as you suggest it is pretty simple to transfer cash or stocks between them.

Asset allocation is a personal choice, I spent years slecting investments, then trying to select diversified funds, before finally realising I'd have baan a lot better off my now if I'd have just gone with a Global tracker. I'm not good at interpreting micro and macro trends, certainly rubbish at reading balance sheets, but it didn't stop me wasting a lot of time and money learning it. HSBC or Vanguard Global ETF, and personally I bought a chunk of Berkshire Hathaway a while back as much as a currency hedge as anything. Keep it simple - it may be a bit disconcerting watching £200k in a single fund or ETF fluctuate by £5k in a day, but you get used to it. Almost.

Paul

[monabri]

Rather than a Vanguard world tracker you might wish to consider HSBC's World Tracker....the costs are less.

Note mc2fools comment on Vanguard's charges! He has said what I was going to say including the consideration of buying through the iWeb platform ( part of Lloyds). I would very strongly advise against buying any shares with smaller platforms ( ie brokers). It might be a £100 joining fee but compared to the sums you mention, it is not significant.

[Alaric]

It looks like you have a £335k mortgage, and a £300k lump sum.

Depending upon your mortgage terms, personally I would seriously loook at paying that down, especially if you are coming ot the end of a term and will need to remortgage at a higher rate.

You may then have surplus income to invest, being what you would have paid on the mortgage. That takes you into the realm of regular investment rather than lump sum.

[DrFfybes]

It looks like you have a £335k mortgage, and a £300k lump sum.

Depending upon your mortgage terms, personally I would seriously loook at paying that down, especially if you are coming ot the end of a term and will need to remortgage at a higher rate.

You may then have surplus income to invest, being what you would have paid on the mortgage. That takes you into the realm of regular investment rather than lump sum.

Oy - you trimmed this bit out, though I did hide it

My approach would then be to use your mortgage payment reduction to make monthly investments.

[1nvest]

You might find that a global IT like F&C (FCIT) is worth holding

Or you may not.

https://www.itinvestor.co.uk/2019/02/ki ... s-are-off/

FCIT 1.12% cost !!!

And that doesn't include overheads such as foreign dividend withholding taxes, typically 2% average dividends, 20% dividend withholding taxation (0.4% more).

Add on platform fees, brokers fees, market makers spreads and a typical mathematical 4% real reward can see that in practice having distributed to others to leave the one taking the risk not seeing the rewards - but instead help fund the high wage/high cost buildings lifestyles of others (brokers, market makers, fund managers etc.).

[mc2fool]

It looks like you have a £335k mortgage, and a £300k lump sum.

Depending upon your mortgage terms, personally I would seriously loook at paying that down, especially if you are coming ot the end of a term and will need to remortgage at a higher rate. You mention a partner, so that would also depend upon how the house is owned and what agreements you have regarding it. My approach would then be to use your mortgage payment reduction to make monthly investments.

And I would add that there is a most definite feeling of lightness, a sense of freedom, a relief in the soul, an inner delight, and other such non-quantifiable benefits of being (almost) mortgage/debt free. This really is the best suggestion yet.

[kempiejon]

It looks like you have a £335k mortgage, and a £300k lump sum.

Depending upon your mortgage terms, personally I would seriously loook at paying that down, especially if you are coming ot the end of a term and will need to remortgage at a higher rate. You mention a partner, so that would also depend upon how the house is owned and what agreements you have regarding it. My approach would then be to use your mortgage payment reduction to make monthly investments.

And I would add that there is a most definite feeling of lightness, a sense of freedom, a relief in the soul, an inner delight, and other such non-quantifiable benefits of being (almost) mortgage/debt free. This really is the best suggestion yet.

Being debt/mortgage free is a great position to be in but for the contary view I avoided a mortgage until I was in my 50s and when we bought the house I had enough capital to buy it outright but we took a mortgage anyhow as rates were low and I felt my investment was able to return better than the cost to borrow. I guess I was lucky as I now have an invested amount several multiples of the amount outstanding on the mortgage and earn several times the mortgage payment from that. Currently employed and on a low fixed rate mortgage I'm choosing not to clear the debt but perhaps I would look at that again in a few years time if the market place mortgage rates are well about the sub 2% I'm charged currently.

[tjh290633]

You might find that a global IT like F&C (FCIT) is worth holding

Or you may not.

https://www.itinvestor.co.uk/2019/02/ki ... s-are-off/

FCIT 1.12% cost !!!

And that doesn't include overheads such as foreign dividend withholding taxes, typically 2% average dividends, 20% dividend withholding taxation (0.4% more).

Add on platform fees, brokers fees, market makers spreads and a typical mathematical 4% real reward can see that in practice having distributed to others to leave the one taking the risk not seeing the rewards - but instead help fund the high wage/high cost buildings lifestyles of others (brokers, market makers, fund managers etc.).

If the results after all those costs are better than the trackers, they are worth having. My grandaughter's holding has given her 13.86% over the last 19 years.

TJH

[1nvest]

You might find that a global IT like F&C (FCIT) is worth holding

Or you may not.

https://www.itinvestor.co.uk/2019/02/ki ... s-are-off/

FCIT 1.12% cost !!!

And that doesn't include overheads such as foreign dividend withholding taxes, typically 2% average dividends, 20% dividend withholding taxation (0.4% more).

Add on platform fees, brokers fees, market makers spreads and a typical mathematical 4% real reward can see that in practice having distributed to others to leave the one taking the risk not seeing the rewards - but instead help fund the high wage/high cost buildings lifestyles of others (brokers, market makers, fund managers etc.).

If the results after all those costs are better than the trackers, they are worth having. My grandaughter's holding has given her 13.86% over the last 19 years.

TJH

That's a big IF

FCIT good discount to NAV coupled with leverage (borrowing to invest) ... worked out. Discount the NAV discount and it compared to a UK investor holding the US S&P500 (IIRC FCIT holds around 50% US stock exposure). In other circumstances that can spin the other way around, leverage and active management ends up costing (lower rewards).

On balance you might broadly assume that the management earns its keep with the borrowing/leveraging/dynamic adjustments etc. But if that broadly yields the same reward as a index tracker fund then on a risk adjusted basis the tracker is safer in not borrowing to leverage/active management etc.

The prospects of consistently yielding the likes of a 1.12% type greater return through active management has repeatedly been shown to not average out well.

In that same link, RIT Capital Partners, 4.17% - I guess in part a fund manager outsourcing some asset allocations to other fund managers ... multiple layers of fees. Can work out assuming the pool of fund managers collectively out smart the market, but don't hold your breath that they'll do so consistently.

[Urbandreamer]

In that same link, RIT Capital Partners, 4.17% - I guess in part a fund manager outsourcing some asset allocations to other fund managers ... multiple layers of fees. Can work out assuming the pool of fund managers collectively out smart the market, but don't hold your breath that they'll do so consistently.

It's a simple matter to find out rather than guess or assume.

https://www.ritcap.com/

RIT Capital Partners plc is an investment trust which aims to protect and enhance shareholders' wealth over the long term.

The IC did an article on them in 2021.
https://www.investorschronicle.co.uk/id ... -partners/

Apparently they make some significant investments in hedge funds, with the intent to reduce volatility while keeping some upside.

And it has been successful in its goal of lower volatility than pure equity markets, with its managers calculating that the trust has participated in 73 per cent of equity market upside and only 38 per cent of market declines since its inception.

The article goes on to point out this about their fund investments

....., with management fees of up to 2 per cent and in some cases 20 per cent performance fees.

But I would assume that anyone actually choosing what they want to put their money in would do their homework and invest in a manner that meets THEIR objectives. Troubles with the active/passive research include the fact that active funds can have different objectives and that the results are always coached as if outperforming the marker (high returns) is the one and only objective.

Caviets, while I don't own RIT, I so own one of their competitors in addition to FCIT and index trackers.

[Wuffle]

If I were a black cab driver in London, I might pay a little more to support the home team (so not Vanguard).
I don't believe in trickle down economics in general but the chance of the OP getting some of his cost back is better than average.

W.