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Are Smart meters compulsory?

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Hardgrafter
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Re: Are Smart meters compulsory?

#179031

Postby Hardgrafter » November 8th, 2018, 5:24 pm

I like the SMARTish gas and electricity meters we had installed a couple of years ago by First Utility. I see no downside. The bills are the same whether read by eye or by the radio network (its not the internet as such).

What slightly bothers me is despite all the negative publicity concerning claims of lack of 'interoperability' when transferring to another supplier, I cannot find any list of compatibility!

With the new price capping from Jan 1st, there will probably be a very much reduced opportunity to get good deals from the utility suppliers.

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Re: Are Smart meters compulsory?

#179035

Postby Slarti » November 8th, 2018, 5:34 pm

Hardgrafter wrote:I like the SMARTish gas and electricity meters we had installed a couple of years ago by First Utility. I see no downside. The bills are the same whether read by eye or by the radio network (its not the internet as such).

What slightly bothers me is despite all the negative publicity concerning claims of lack of 'interoperability' when transferring to another supplier, I cannot find any list of compatibility!

With the new price capping from Jan 1st, there will probably be a very much reduced opportunity to get good deals from the utility suppliers.


Downside. You now have no record of the reading at the point it is taken making it hard to argue the bill.

Slarti

didds
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Re: Are Smart meters compulsory?

#179110

Postby didds » November 9th, 2018, 8:51 am

Hardgrafter wrote:I like the SMARTish gas and electricity meters we had installed a couple of years ago by First Utility. I see no downside. The bills are the same whether read by eye or by the radio network



So in fact there is no benefit at all either by swapping.

Gotcha.

didds

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Re: Are Smart meters compulsory?

#181002

Postby MiketheBoilerman » November 17th, 2018, 2:20 am

No.

Not sure anyone has actually said simply and unambiguously this so far!

chas49
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Re: Are Smart meters compulsory?

#181016

Postby chas49 » November 17th, 2018, 8:18 am

Slarti wrote:Downside. You now have no record of the reading at the point it is taken making it hard to argue the bill.

Slarti


Strictly true, but if you get a bill which seems too high, you go and check the meter and compare that reading (say 7 days later) and see if it's "out". Submit a new reading and it smooths out...

Obviously there may be issues if you pay on billing rather than by monthly DD.

I don't really see how it's worse than having a meter reader visit or an estimated read.

(I don't have smart yet, waiting till SMETS2)

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Re: Are Smart meters compulsory?

#181028

Postby scrumpyjack » November 17th, 2018, 9:31 am

There must be better things to spend £20 billion on!

AF62
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Re: Are Smart meters compulsory?

#181071

Postby AF62 » November 17th, 2018, 1:05 pm

scrumpyjack wrote:There must be better things to spend £20 billion on!


I completely agree.

I really don't get what the benefits supposedly are, and from the information out there I can only conclude there are not benefits for me and quite likely dis-benefits. From what I have read the supposed benefits are -

More accurate bills. I pay by Direct Debit so don't care whether I am in credit or debit at any particular point in time, provided the cost is covered over a 12 month period, and it always is. The days the energy companies seem quite good at estimating, especially if you have lived somewhere for a while, and they do read the meter every year which can be topped up with customer readings to spot any drastic changes.

Better understanding of your usage. As before, I know how much electricity and gas my house uses; I have the bills from the previous years. If I want to use less I turn something off or turn the heating down.

Bringing Britain's energy system into the 21st century. So change for changes sake. Not really a benefit to me.

Innovative energy tariffs. Well there is a loaded weasel worded statement if ever there was one. I cannot see the energy companies deciding to introduce an "innovative energy tariff" that benefited consumers and not shareholders.

ten0rman
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Re: Are Smart meters compulsory?

#181147

Postby ten0rman » November 17th, 2018, 8:11 pm

More accurate bills. .....

I also pay by DD. Unfortunately, my "year" runs from March to February. Which means that I build up a surplus in the first 6 or 8 months which triggers the Elec Co to want to reduce payments as they don't understand that the usage over the last 4 to 6 months will greatly increase. I've just been through this with EON, but fortunately ended up with someone who understood what I was saying. (in fact, my calculations suggest that an increase is actually required.)

Better understanding of your usage......

Bringing Britain's energy system into the 21st century.....


Agree on both counts.

As things stand at the moment, I cannot see any way that smart meters will benefit me. I mean, what am I going to do? Turn off the heating during the day? Remember we are pensioners and need the heat. If we need the energy, we need the energy, and no amount of display watching is going to alter that.

I have to say that I do not understand why smart meters are being pushed like this - unless there is a hidden agenda that we are not being told.

Regards,

ten0rman

UncleEbenezer
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Re: Are Smart meters compulsory?

#181169

Postby UncleEbenezer » November 17th, 2018, 11:15 pm

ten0rman wrote:I have to say that I do not understand why smart meters are being pushed like this - unless there is a hidden agenda that we are not being told.

There's a perfectly open agenda that we are being told. They're part of managing the grid in the future, when we'll have a much more fine-tuned and responsive version of peak-vs-off-peak pricing than the old "Economy 7" to manage demand from electric cars and a new generation of appliances that can be set to run at off-peak times on cheaper power. Always happy to let the dishwasher run when the grid says it's cheapest!

What we haven't yet been told is any detail of what smart tariffs will look like. I expect they'll come out substantially cheaper than flat (old) tariffs to encourage adoption. Like installing a water meter (which reduced my bills by 85%).

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Re: Are Smart meters compulsory?

#181224

Postby ten0rman » November 18th, 2018, 12:16 pm

Uncle,
The only device we have been able to shift to off-peak (Economy 7) is our washing machine. We do not have a dishwasher or indeed any other appliance that could be run off-peak. Unless, of course, we re-arrange our lives to run during off-peak hours. The plain fact of the matter for us is that without a major life-style change, there is nothing else that we can do. (Actually, we could go onto oil or gas central heating, but that simply moves the energy requirements from one source obtained through the night to another source running through the day. Possibly not what is required.) I suppose there is a possibility of the fridge-freezer, but then we lose cold whenever we open it during the day. Our immersion heater has been dual (off-peak & normal) for the last 24 years so it heats up overnight, and boosts during the day.

I do wonder what will happen if we get an electric car: our off-peak demand is already up near the 70 to 80 amp level on a single phase 100 amp supply.

As I say, I cannot see smart meters doing anything for us, or indeed anyone in a similar position.

Regards,

ten0rman

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Re: Are Smart meters compulsory?

#181257

Postby Slarti » November 18th, 2018, 4:01 pm

ten0rman wrote:Uncle,
The only device we have been able to shift to off-peak (Economy 7) is our washing machine. We do not have a dishwasher or indeed any other appliance that could be run off-peak. Unless, of course, we re-arrange our lives to run during off-peak hours. The plain fact of the matter for us is that without a major life-style change, there is nothing else that we can do.


Buy one of large battery packs that people with solar arrays are getting . You can run a home off it for several hours, so I understand.

Charge it during off peak and then run the home off it during the expensive periods.

No idea how long something like that would take to pay for itself, though.

Slarti

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Re: Are Smart meters compulsory?

#181279

Postby jfgw » November 18th, 2018, 6:20 pm

ten0rman wrote:Uncle,
The only device we have been able to shift to off-peak (Economy 7) is our washing machine. We do not have a dishwasher or indeed any other appliance that could be run off-peak. Unless, of course, we re-arrange our lives to run during off-peak hours. The plain fact of the matter for us is that without a major life-style change, there is nothing else that we can do. (Actually, we could go onto oil or gas central heating, but that simply moves the energy requirements from one source obtained through the night to another source running through the day. Possibly not what is required.) I suppose there is a possibility of the fridge-freezer, but then we lose cold whenever we open it during the day. Our immersion heater has been dual (off-peak & normal) for the last 24 years so it heats up overnight, and boosts during the day.

I do wonder what will happen if we get an electric car: our off-peak demand is already up near the 70 to 80 amp level on a single phase 100 amp supply.

As I say, I cannot see smart meters doing anything for us, or indeed anyone in a similar position.

Regards,

ten0rman


I see little advantage of using a smart electricity meter with a tariff with fixed switching times like economy 7. Variable switching times have been available for years in the form of economy 10 controlled by a radio teleswitch tuned to Radio 4 long wave. This allows storage heaters and hot water cylinders to be given a boost for a couple of periods during the day as well as about 5 hours at night. Smart meters do not rely upon a 500kW transmission that hardly anyone listens to (when did you last listen to R4 on long wave?) and, with suitable integration, could be used much more flexibly to level the demand upon the national grid, especially as electric cars become more common.

It is possible that, if people see a display which counts up the pennies in real time, they will turn the heating down in bedrooms during the day or not fill the kettle for one cup but I doubt whether the suggested savings will be anywhere near approached.

Julian F. G. W.

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Re: Are Smart meters compulsory?

#181335

Postby ten0rman » November 19th, 2018, 9:26 am

FWIW, we have only recently moved on to E7 having spent the best part of the last 40+ years on an obsolete (restricted hour) tariff involving the use of two meters. Effectively this was the equivalent to, but cheaper than, E7 but without the "advantages" of E7.

When this tariff was eventually withdrawn, we were given the choice of standard tariff, ie everything costing the same, E10, or E7. In both E10 and E7, the daytime unit cost increased, but the off-peak units were less with E7 being much cheaper. As you might expect, with a set of storage heaters designed for 7 or 8 hour working, we went for E7, and that was when we started using our washing machine at night.

I should point out that for the last 20+ years on the restricted hour tariff, we used a radio teleswitch even though it was not E7. Prior to that, we had a mechanical timeswitch which actually slowly but surely drifted out by quite a few hours. Today, it is an electronic box of tricks.

Cheers,

ten0rman

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Re: Are Smart meters compulsory?

#181382

Postby DrFfybes » November 19th, 2018, 12:36 pm

MiketheBoilerman wrote:No.

Not sure anyone has actually said simply and unambiguously this so far!


Welcome back Mike :)

This is the main thing - the only real benefit is to the supplier unless you have a real aversion to letting someone read your meter every year or 2.

I can see time based tariffs eventually - prices changing each hour depending upon demand.

Paul

chas49
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Re: Are Smart meters compulsory?

#181385

Postby chas49 » November 19th, 2018, 12:47 pm

Apparently (according to a claim on BBC Radio 4's You and Yours today), the switch to smart metering will (eventually) lead to the availability of next-day switching and automatic switching. (In the context of being able to switch supplier).

That could potentially be a benefit I think.

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Re: Are Smart meters compulsory?

#181393

Postby gryffron » November 19th, 2018, 1:38 pm

chas49 wrote:Apparently (according to a claim on BBC Radio 4's You and Yours today), the switch to smart metering will (eventually) lead to the availability of next-day switching and automatic switching. (In the context of being able to switch supplier).
That could potentially be a benefit I think.

Yes, but not with the current generation of meters that are tied to individual suppliers.

This is all about micromanaging unreliable renewable energy sources. Which is great if you have the technology that can co-operate with them. Electric cars, home storage batteries etc. But I would expect peak time prices to increase, and substantially.

Gryff

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Re: Are Smart meters compulsory?

#181463

Postby melonfool » November 19th, 2018, 8:25 pm

AF62 wrote:
More accurate bills. I pay by Direct Debit so don't care whether I am in credit or debit at any particular point in time, provided the cost is covered over a 12 month period, and it always is. The days the energy companies seem quite good at estimating, especially if you have lived somewhere for a while, and they do read the meter every year which can be topped up with customer readings to spot any drastic changes.


Some people are not as well off as you/us and cannot afford to overpay.

Many people, especially the lower paid, live in rental accommodation and move frequently, so having up to date bills must be a real comfort for them.


Mel

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Re: Are Smart meters compulsory?

#182165

Postby bruncher » November 22nd, 2018, 12:37 am

I agreed an appointment 2 years ago for smart meters to be installed, but then changed my mind about it after doing some research. They contacted me a few times to reschedule, but then gave up. I switched supplier - who could not have taken me as a customer if I'd had smart meters installed. Have subsequently switched again (it was compulsory as my supplier went bust) and no-one has contacted me recently about new meters.

I believe that my electricity meter may have passed its replace-by-date, but I will try and get another simple meter if I have to have a replacement.

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Re: Are Smart meters compulsory?

#182322

Postby DrBunsenHoneydew » November 22nd, 2018, 2:07 pm

British Gas have a new tariff (Energy Plus Boiler Cover Oct 2019) that requires you to arrange to have smart meters (one for gas, one for elec) installed within three months of switching, unless it's technically not possible. If you can't get smart meters, you can still keep the tariff - you'll just need to give manual meter readings when asked.

This deal comes with ‘free’ 12 month boiler cover. All homeowners qualify for the tariff but only get the insurance if they don’t already have BG ‘HomeCare’. Renters can also get the energy deal, just not the boiler cover. There's an excess of £99 for each repair and the cover will start within 21 days of your switch completing.

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Re: Are Smart meters compulsory?

#182325

Postby Lootman » November 22nd, 2018, 2:13 pm

melonfool wrote:Many people, especially the lower paid, live in rental accommodation and move frequently, so having up to date bills must be a real comfort for them.

True, although with tenants it is probably more in the interests of the power company to get bills paid promptly.

Over my decades as a BTL landlord I had over 100 tenants. A good number of them left without paying the last bill (also for water, phone etc). I know because demand letters would arrive for long-departed tenants for months afterwards.

I suspect avoiding such losses from people who are mobile is paramount in the thinking of utility companies.


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